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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Thorin fights for his soul" scene - kudos to the unsung hero sound/light/color WETA folks

Avandel
Half-elven


Jan 31 2015, 2:19am

Post #1 of 11 (860 views)
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"Thorin fights for his soul" scene - kudos to the unsung hero sound/light/color WETA folks Can't Post

Just wish re BOFA - as with many of the Hobbit scenes - I could really THANK the "unsung hero" WETA crew - I don't even know the titles of a lot of these folks, but re the
"Thorin faces off against his madness scene" - it's not that I enjoy my favorite character sufferFrown. But I did want to say how much (with 7 theater views!) I appreciate that scene.

Because we've all seen "vortex" graphic effects, have seen people hearing voices, and so on. I think PJ was right re Mirkwood - how do you depict what it is going on in someone's
mind? So for me:

1) Am not a musician but the way Thorin's memories of voices - or hallucinations of voices - IMO is gorgeously doneHeart, like music, voices overlaid and rising and falling.
It's almost like a tapestry (for me to hear), with Sir Ian's voice this rich accent, and then Bilbo sounds almost bell-clear to me (this must have been recorded separately
as Bilbo is angry when he actually says it in the movie to Thorin - but during the hallucination it's softer, but clear "You are changed, Thorin"). I thought it was interesting
that the two most marked voices are Gandalf's, and Bilbo's, for Thorin here, almost like these two are a kind of mental anchor for him, perhaps.

2) The color and light and photography - the color is gorgeous, the gold floor rich, but it's ominous too, especially with the layer of haze, and Erebor is dark around
the floor. And with the light-to-shadow to light playing across Thorin's face, for me it echoes what is going on in his mind, but it's ominous too. And I loved the IMO brilliant
touch of the dragon-shadow as it slides past Thorin. And love the idea of gold swallowing Thorin, it's like one of those hallucinations of ice closing over you - not a bunch
of coins swallowing him as I might have thought, or something "ordinary" - it's trippy without going over-the-top IMO.

3) What can be said of Richard Armitage? As often posted, so MUCH is in his eyes, and he handles this with brillianceHeartHeartHeart. It hurts to watch him suffer.

Overall, for me, re this scene - things that we have seen like it before are better done than I ever remember seeing, and other things for me were an original way of handling
a scene like this. I remember watching the sound/voice editors? and some other editors in the blogs - they are the people I am least likely to meet, everFrown, but I wish I
could let them know how much I appreciated their work - and here, for me, it was perfection (as with Smaug and so many other scenes, and even the scenes where
complete silence for a moment was the most effective. I also think few could do fire scenes as well as WETA.)

Finally, too, at least THIS scene I don't think was rushed through. *Sigh*Unsure


Elarie
Grey Havens

Jan 31 2015, 3:52am

Post #2 of 11 (469 views)
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I especially loved the dragon in the gold floor [In reply to] Can't Post

It's one of my favorite visual moments in the whole movie because it was so startling and powerful, and it says so much with such simplicity. It was like Smaug telling Thorin, "You think I'm gone but I've still got you". Also, I suspect that other people will come up with many other interpretations for that same moment, which is what makes it so interesting. Definitely big kudos to the people behind it.

__________________

Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.

(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 31 2015, 6:04am

Post #3 of 11 (470 views)
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I liked the scene up until Thorin starts drowning [In reply to] Can't Post

It felt too "easy", from an allegorical perspective, to me anyway. But I don't know what else they could've done to depict what they were trying to. I agree with everything else you've said, and on the whole I agree it is a pretty amazing scene, with much kudos to the FX and sound guys, and of course Richard Armitage!

On the topic of "easy", I felt like these films had a tadge more of these scenes than did LOTR. The whole Sauron-is-the-Eye-is-Sauron scene in DOS and BOFA feels a little video-gamey to me. It's growing on me, but at first viewing in DOS, my mind was screaming "Stop! Stop! Stop!"

The Hobbit Soundtracks - Being an online archive of information concerning Howard Shore's score for The Hobbit films.


moreorless
Gondor

Jan 31 2015, 6:33am

Post #4 of 11 (463 views)
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An area I felt the Hobbit actually outdid LOTR... [In reply to] Can't Post

Generally I felt that one area where the Hobbit films did have the edge on LOTR was in how visually inventive certain scenes where, along with this example I would mention the Dol Guldor confrontations in DOS and BOT5A plus the stone giants in AUJ.
As the OP says this is the kind of scene that has become such a cliché that its mostly been used for comedy in the last 10-20 years with character like Father Ted or the Homer Simpson hearing voices as visions of characters appear over their shoulders. To go that route and actually have it both visually and perhaps as the OP points out just as importantly sonically interesting and dramatic was quite something.


moreorless
Gondor

Jan 31 2015, 6:37am

Post #5 of 11 (467 views)
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Again I felt that avoided whats normally a clinche [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It felt too "easy", from an allegorical perspective, to me anyway. But I don't know what else they could've done to depict what they were trying to. I agree with everything else you've said, and on the whole I agree it is a pretty amazing scene, with much kudos to the FX and sound guys, and of course Richard Armitage!

On the topic of "easy", I felt like these films had a tadge more of these scenes than did LOTR. The whole Sauron-is-the-Eye-is-Sauron scene in DOS and BOFA feels a little video-gamey to me. It's growing on me, but at first viewing in DOS, my mind was screaming "Stop! Stop! Stop!"


As with "characters in moral crisis hears voices" I felt this was actually something that could have been a bit cliched and dull but avoided being so by the visually interesting way it was handled. Rather than just have Throin sinking into the gold like water/mud theres something otherworldly and unsettling about the golden floor bending into a giant pit.


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Jan 31 2015, 6:43am

Post #6 of 11 (444 views)
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I really loved Thorin's internal battle... [In reply to] Can't Post

...until he started getting sucked down into the gold vortex. Richard's performance saved it but the concept was a bit ham fisted for my liking. Still a pretty good scene!!


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jan 31 2015, 12:31pm

Post #7 of 11 (403 views)
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Agree with everything you say about the Thorin scenes, Avandel [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they were absolutely amazing visually and in terms of the acting.


Avandel
Half-elven


Jan 31 2015, 8:39pm

Post #8 of 11 (350 views)
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Thank you! For me, THIS [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
As with "characters in moral crisis hears voices" I felt this was actually something that could have been a bit cliched and dull but avoided being so by the visually interesting way it was handled. Rather than just have Throin sinking into the gold like water/mud theres something otherworldly and unsettling about the golden floor bending into a giant pit.


The floor opening like that seems so visceral to me, almost like a rough surf swelling and taking Thorin down with it. I also think even the swirling air currents accent the voices churning through Thorin's mind.

IMO an effective, even beautiful handling of a scene that could so easily have been
cliché, or worse, gross in some manner. And it segues beautifully IMO to the scene of Thorin walking clear-eyed, to his Company.

(A little OT - I hafta smile at myself, because re the trailers as Thorin walks toward Kili I thought Thorin would really lay into Kili, and instead IMO it's one of my top most favorite "soft" scenes in BOFA, and also very beautiful - and again IMO an effective use of color and sets, with the rubble all around the dwarves and the glow of fire behind Thorin, and that he walks out stripped of all the "royal bling".)


Avandel
Half-elven


Jan 31 2015, 8:41pm

Post #9 of 11 (396 views)
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RA is IMO spectacular [In reply to] Can't Post

Just think it's amazing re performance, you can actually see Thorin's mind clearing through his eyes at the end.

I can't wait for the DVD/BR - because while my theater views were great my BR just seems to get sharper details vs. the IMAX (it's nice to experience both!Smile)


Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2015, 1:50pm

Post #10 of 11 (252 views)
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Not only the dragon in the gold [In reply to] Can't Post

but then they used the same kind of visual with Azog under the ice. Amazing!

Thorin struck me as the kind of person that would be susceptible to addiction. There are some who never truly are free of their addictions - they merely replace one addiction with another. Their personalities almost crave the pull of something. Thorin seems to have that in him - he is so single-minded in his quest - Erebor and (when he found out he was still alive) Azog. His need pulls him and causes him to make decisions that aren't really in his or anyone's best interests.

Maybe it's just a stubborn dwarf thing though... Crazy

.
Heed WBA when building blanket forts.
ITLs don't get enough FAS. :)

Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings






Elarie
Grey Havens

Feb 6 2015, 5:34pm

Post #11 of 11 (253 views)
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Thank you for pointing that out [In reply to] Can't Post

"but then they used the same kind of visual with Azog under the ice. Amazing! "
---------------------

Great comparison! I never made that connection before and it makes both scenes even more interesting.

Now I have to go see the movie again Wink

__________________

Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.

(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)

 
 

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