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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Hobbit: One Film (what would make for a "definitive" cut)

Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2015, 1:53pm

Post #1 of 14 (976 views)
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The Hobbit: One Film (what would make for a "definitive" cut) Can't Post

Ok. So this may sound pretentious but I´m ill, in bed and I have long tame to spare. Im gonna make a list of events that would take place on a single hobbit movie:

-Gandalf and Bilbo conversation. (The same)

-An unexpected party (the same but both songs are gone)/ Bilbo faints and then we go to the moment he wakes up in the morning.
No horse hair and world is ahead and wedges scenes.

-Right to the troll moment (they arrive and there is no discussion between Thorin and Gandalf, it cuts right when dwarves are cooking dinner and Bilbo wonders where is the wizard)

-Trolls (no battle, Kili appears and stabs the troll on his foot, then Thorin stops him and the trolls show Bilbo captured)

-Troll hoard (the same)

-Travelling scene (brief)

-Rivendell(cut to the secret passage into Imladris. Every bit of Thorin discomforming with the elves is gone)

-Cut straight to the eating scene in Rivendell (no Balin/Bilbo moment) Elrond asks: what were you doing on the east road?...

-Moon runes: and then we cut to Elrond when he says : ¡Erebor! and he appears with the map. Then again the same but Elrond´s saying: you are not the only guardian- is gone

-Mysti mountains: there is no mysti mountains theme playing they appear in the storm and there is no giants

-Goblins: Bilbo wakes up, and sudeenly the sandy floor begins to open, Thorin awakes then they fall (no Bilbo and Bofur moment)

-Goblin king: they fall and it is showned that Bilbo falls too but in the Gollum´s crack. They go to the goblin king. Pretty much the same. Until Ggandalf appears and they flee. There is no sequence of the escaping and all that fighting. The Goblin king dies when Thorin fights him with the elven sword and he falls into the pit

-Gollum: The moment when Bilbo dissapears and Gollum appears on the exit of the tunnel is not divided. We see Gandalf and the dwarves appear (this would be sooo much elegant having them there without all that goblin mayhem and the bridge scene)

-Azog: Bilbo appears among the dwarves and they ask him how he escaped the goblins, but right when he is going to answer Azog appears as a servant of the goblins. (No bilbo and thorin moment)

-Trees: They go to the trees. No Azog Thorin dialogue. Right when the pine is about to fall and Ggandalf is holding Oir and Dori, the moth appears and the eagles come.

-Carrock: THey all appear injured (but no Thorin unconciousness) and they look upon Erebor. As soon as Bilbo says that phrase : the worst is behind, we cut to the axe of Beorn, of the extended cut, falling and chopoing wood...

-Beorn: Then we see the dwarves and Gandalf and Bilbo running from Azog and company they get into the house and close the door with no Bear shown. Then we go straight to the scene when they are watching Beorn in his yard. The dialogue between the two scenes of Gandalf talking about Beorn is mixed so it seems that they are getting to know him not at the following morning but in that very moment. Then all goes the same and Beorn itself talks about Azog.

- Mirkwood: They depart in the ponies and they arrive Mirkwood. Gandalf just leaves (as in the book) There are no ring moments at all. They enter the forest and everything is the same as in the EE (except of Bilbo killing that weird criature)

-Thranduil: They get captured by the elves (no Leglas jokes about Gimli or search them scene, no Tauriel at all). They get imprisoned (no Balin exposition about these are the kings dungeons). Thorin and Thranduil have they conversation (no scar moment).

-Barrels: They escape. No river door moment at all they just fall. Orcs appear and there is little fight. No Legolas , no elves. They escape and thats it.

-Laketown: No wounded Fili. Bard appears and threat them with the arrow, then we cut straight to the Laketown scene as if Bard captured them. They go straight to the master. (No Bard family at all) Trice wellcome and...

-Lonely mountain: We cut straight to the dispatching of the dwarves and Thorin sailing to the mountain (no dwarves starying in laketown) Then they start to climb and here we see the images of the dwarves going to the mysti mountains were we can see the whole party and then the mysti mountains theme explodes and it is a very good moment. Then they arrive to Dale and the music quiets. Then all is pretty much the same

-Smaug: Everything is the same, no division between scenes, the whole confrontation is in one piece, no mentions to the darkness that is coming and all that. Smaug blows fire to Bilbo and he dissapears, then we cut to Smaug guessing that it a plan of the men of the lake and he sets off to Esgaroth. No cut to the darves outside (its Bilbo shining moment) and no fight between Smaug and the dwarves at all.

-Smaug´s death: He burns the city and then we see Bard again breaking that window and taking his bow, he goes to the bell tower and he shoots arrows, in his last shot with the regular arrow he kills Smaug (there is no mention to the black arrows)

-The gattering of the clouds: Dwarves see Smaug´s death and start searching for the arkenstone. There is this scene when all of them are looking for it. Then we cut to Bard in the shore of the lake saying they must go for shelter and people cheer at him for being the dragon killer. Then we see Thorin Balin, Dwalin and Bilbo sene at the throne. Then Bard arrives to Dale, and the conversation at the gate (wich is already closed (as if it has benn Smaug´s ruin or something (whe never see the prologue so the door doesnt have to be destroyed))).

-Delivering the Arkenstone: After Bard sets off to Dale Bilbo descends de gate and he goes to Dale. There he finds Gandalf already there (we dont see anything of the set up in Dale with Thranduil arriving and nothing of the discussion in the tent, they are all already there (Balin sentence about every soul in middle earth know that the dragon is dead is enough to clarify the previous lust of Thranduil for the gems) Bilbo delivers the arkenstone and he says: There wont be war we cut straight to the elven army at the front gate.

-Clouds burst: Pretty much the same. We havent seen Thorin saying to Bilbo to not underestimate dwarves so Dain arriving its a great surprise. The orcs ust appear (no worms here) and the battle explodes.

They retreat to Dale and there all Bbard moments are together, in the movie Bbard has two moments where he rallies men to attack the orcs TWO! only one is needed he does this and everybody goes nuts in Dale, is a very effective way to put it.

Then Dain is in nieed of Thorin and Thorin straight appears (there is no scenes of tension and debate inside Erebor he just appears and is freaking awesome. The whole battle gets a frantic pace without those slow and quiet character moments. There is no hugh among cousins he goes to ravenhill and here they start fight.

-Ravenhill: All is focused in Thorin(it is his moment) he arrives and doesnt send Kili or Fili he goes directly trough the ice and fights Azog. We see images, brief ones of Dwalin, Kili and Fili fighting but it is not shown any death. Only Thorin´s wich goes the same.

-Death: Bilbo appears at Ravenhill only then. There is no knocking in the head. Thorin depparts just as it is. No blowing horns. Nothing. We cut to the farewell at the gate and Bilbo leaves.

-Shire: Bilbo farewells Gandalf and then he appears oppening Bag End door. No handckerchief (as it was cutted). He looks down to the ring but we see then the map (no old Bilbo)

The End




Well I assure you (without having seen BOTFA EE) That this version would work. There is less character moments I know, but the action goes in a so fluid way that there is no need of it. This action also is so diferent and there is such a different locations that you cant get bored (is not like the rush in the second half of AUJ were everything is action) this is action yes, but it is classy action and book action. There is no ALFRID, no Legolas nor Tauriel at all. We only see Legolas in a cameo when the dwarves get captured, thats it.

Some moments from the book are out, but it was in order to balance it and make a film that is comfortable to watch, you dont get lost with and you are able to feel the sense of character arc in Bilbo, because at the time the movie is finishing you still remember how you felt when you met Bilbo in the shire at the begining.

And all of this in less than three hours..

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



(This post was edited by Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) on Jan 30 2015, 1:57pm)


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jan 30 2015, 2:10pm

Post #2 of 14 (623 views)
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I'm sorry you are unwell [In reply to] Can't Post

It's good that you've got this to occupy you. However, speaking for myself, a one-film cut would not work for me, so I can't comment on your notes. I'm very satisfied with what we've got.Tongue

Get well soon.Wink


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2015, 2:15pm

Post #3 of 14 (596 views)
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I dont want to lead people to confusion, I love having 3 films [In reply to] Can't Post

is just the experience of having the story in one take

:) thanks for the wishes

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



shadowdog
Rohan

Jan 30 2015, 2:57pm

Post #4 of 14 (564 views)
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That sounds like [In reply to] Can't Post

very dry story telling in what you outline. I think it would not arouse any empathy or feelings for any of the characters which is what I love about all of the Middle Earth movies.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 30 2015, 3:00pm

Post #5 of 14 (562 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I do think that a reasonably satisfactory single-film adaptation could be made, but not be recutting Jackson's trilogy. On one point in particular, I would handle Bard a bit differently. He would remain a guardsman as he is in the book, but the Company would encounter him at the bridge into Esgaroth. He would be the watchman who first questions the party and escorts them to the Master of Lake-town. The Master would make Bard their host during their stay and make him responsible for them. That way we would get to know Bard a bit instead of him being a deus ex machina that Tolkien just pulled out of his hat.

"The Great Scaly One protects us from alien invaders and ourselves with his fiery atomic love. It can be a tough love - the “folly of man” and all that - but Godzilla is a fair god.

"Godzilla is totally accepting of all people and faiths. For it is written that liberal or conservative, Christian or Muslim or Jew, straight or gay, all people sound pretty much the identical as they are crushed beneath his mighty feet."
- Tony Isabella, The First Church of Godzilla (Reform)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2015, 3:02pm

Post #6 of 14 (551 views)
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mm I think it does [In reply to] Can't Post

Character moments ar brief but more charming, I mean, yo get the main lines of the story wich are:

Bilbo Baggins is the true hero

He goes from a stay safe at home to a brave fella and then to an honest one and then back home. That is what the book tlaks about

Anything beyond that is not from the book except for Thorin getting repented at the end.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2015, 3:04pm

Post #7 of 14 (549 views)
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Yeah I like that [In reply to] Can't Post

I was talking about doing it with the material we have but that I like yeah. We could have had even elves in Esgaroth as they are in the book, but not the way it happened in the film

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jan 30 2015, 4:50pm

Post #8 of 14 (544 views)
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This is intended as description of a fan edit, right? [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be a rather disjointed and unpleasant experience as a stand alone film. Even in the early going before Mirkwood Gandalf has disappeared and reappeared mysteriously twice...

If I were creating for myself a compilation of Favorite Scenes, I would make different choices. For example, I would be happy to lose the Trolls entirely in order to get back Bilbo and Thorin moments such as that at the end of the Stone Giants, and those outside the Gobin caves/at the Carrock.



dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 30 2015, 5:29pm

Post #9 of 14 (524 views)
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I don't think there is such a thing as a 'definitive' cut... [In reply to] Can't Post

Adapting any book involves making choices and the things people value in books - and films - are so different. So one person's ideal cut would be another's 'no thank you': for example - every time you talk about cutting the character moments you lose me. This wouldn't work as a film for me at all.

For what it's worth, I don't think there is a one film version of The Hobbit that would work for me. Too much of the story would have to be cut - as happened with the American cartoon. I know some people here are fond of that, but it's not for me.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2015, 5:58pm

Post #10 of 14 (520 views)
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it wouldnt be unpleasant IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

And that about Gandalf, well, you have that in the book.

I like your dareness to get rid of the trolls, they really make no sens in the story

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jan 30 2015, 7:59pm

Post #11 of 14 (476 views)
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Unpleasant... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I meant, for someone who has not seen Jackson's film, and has not read Tolkien's novel. You have a main character disappearing twice for no reason at all and popping up at the nick of time, which seems a bit much to me. It is better handled in the book (and AUJ).

For someone who has seen the film and/or read the book, and who holds the view that most additions by PJ deserve to be cut out, it would doubtless be enjoyable, yes.



Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2015, 8:22pm

Post #12 of 14 (465 views)
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Yeah Ii meant the second case of viewers [In reply to] Can't Post

:)

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



moreorless
Gondor

Jan 31 2015, 5:41am

Post #13 of 14 (453 views)
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Not in the style Jackson directed the films... [In reply to] Can't Post

A single film Hobbit that retains most of the events of the book "might" be possible but I think it would need to have a style very different to Jacksons LOTR, something that allowed it to jump between events much more quickly.

Even if you removed the White Council subplot entirely and also cut out any non essential scenes I just think Jacksons LOTR style would leave too much ground to cover. The absolute bare minimum you could get away with would I'd say be...

1.Gandalf meets Bildo and the unexpected Party
2.Bilbo finds the ring and meets Gollum
3.The party get captured by elves and escape
4.Time spent in laketown
5.Finding the door
6.Bilbo and Smaug
7.Smaug attacks laketown
8.Standoff with laketowners and elves
9.Battle

You could do things like cutting the trolls/spiders and have Gandalf discover the moon letters instead of going to Rivendell but without the above the plot just wouldn't make sense and I think that's a lot of ground for one film to cover in Jacksons style. The lineup of scenes the OP mentioned seems like they would end up as either vastly too long or rushed to the degree they remove all the focus on character and location.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Jan 31 2015, 5:43am)


shadowmikeuk
Registered User

Feb 5 2015, 8:55pm

Post #14 of 14 (354 views)
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The Hobbit - The Tolkien Edit [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi
I'm new to this forum having just joined and have been reading some of the posts. I found this one rather interesting and wondered if you were aware that someone has already tried to do this. It is mentioned on the fanedit web site and, basically a fan has "edited" the three theatrical versions of The Hobbit and created one film lasting just over 4 hours. He says his aim was to try and get the film as close to the story told in the book and to that end he's removed most of the scenes of orcs chasing the group, the elf/dwraf love interest, the Dol Goldur stuff and Legolas. The scenes inside Erabor are mainly the Bilbo/ Smaug conversations and most of the battle between dwarves and smaug have also gone.

I watched it the other day and whilst there are some things I wasn't over keen on being omitted I have to admit that overall he hasn't done a bad job.

I'm not saying it's better than the trilogy but it is worth a look just to see what he managed to achieve and overall it did flow pretty well as a story. He named his version The Hobbit - The Tolkien Edit

I just thought some readers might find it interesting to hear about it.

Mike

 
 

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