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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 29 2015, 9:41am
Post #1 of 25
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Alternative Structure / Scenes / Events for TH movies (Long Post)
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First of all: I am not doing this because I wasn't satisfied with this trilogy. I did the same several times with the LotR movies and I love those dearly. It is just for fun, so I hope this will just be here for discussion and no fights ;)
I am also aware that a lot in this IS what PJ & Co have given us and a lot that is changed would not be in there had it not been for their original version. I still love the world they created and do not pretend that my alternative idea would have made better films for that the majority of people or the filmmakers themselves. Maybe for me, but that is a very personal opinion and feeling.
So maybe some others will join in and post their ideas 
In General
1. I decided to "do" a two-movie (close to 3 hours each) treatment.
2. I do not want to cheap out on things the filmmakers felt very strongely about - so I kept Azog, Radagast, Alfrid and Tauriel IN the story.
The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey
Prologue
Seen as in the movie
.
Switch to the time of TH
Right the same until the camera moves to the pandry. Instead of Frodo we have young Bilbo coming out of the pandry in this version and instead of the Frodo/Bilbo stuff the next scene is young Bilbo on his bench, blowing his smoke ring into the air.
Title
Gandalf/Bilbo Scene
Mostly the same.
The Unexpected Party
Mainly the same, though I wouldn't mind the dwarves being a bit grimmer than they are in the version we got. I thought long about cutting some of the dwarves and I am still not sure whether this might not have been the best thing to do for the movies. Instead, I now think that there should be a very clear focus on Thorin, Fili, Kili and Balin. Especially the two young ones should be identified here as Thorin's heirs and there should be more dynamic between them (maybe Thorin being too hard with Fili as his immediate heir and more friendly with Kili or something like this).
When Gandalf shows Thorin map and key, Thorin should be absolutely baffled.
Thorin: "Where did you get these?"
Gandalf: "I got them from your father, Thrain."
Kili: "But he is dead."
Gandalf: "He wasn't when I spoke to him. Thrain was the heir of a mighty people, even after the dwarves had lost the Lonely Mountain. When he wasn't found dead after the Battle of Azanulbizar I was worried that he might have met a more terrible fate."
Bilbo: "Azanu...?"
Balin: "Dimrill Dale. The place of one of our greatest victories... and greatest defeats. After Smaug had taken Erebor, King Thror was not satisfied with living in exile. He was determined to reclaim the ancient kingdom of Khazad-dum that lies beyond that valley..."
[Flashback of Azanulbizar, basically as in the movie.]
Thorin: "Enough! Gandalf, where did you meet my father and where is he now?"
Gandalf: "When my worries about Thrain grew I travelled to Moria, as it is now known by most, and found Thrain not far away from the East Gate. There were Orcs there but they quickly retreated deeper into the mines when they became aware of my presence. I found Thrain. He wasn't well, but he wasn't as mad as some who never saw him after the battle claim him to be.
[Flashback of Thrain giving Gandalf map and key. Thrain aksing Gandalf to find his son and urge him to take his birth right and become King under the Mountain. Shadow and flames appear, the Orcs return and as Gandalf manges to flee Moria he realizes Thrain has vanished.]
Gandalf: "I don't know where Thrain is or whether he was able to save himself from the Evil that now resides in Moria. But I know that he wanted you to have these. And I know he wants you to reclaim Erebor. You are the rightful King under the Mountain."
[Continuation of the Bag-End episode mainly as in AUJ]
Bilbo going on the adventure
No flash to Radagast, no Weathertop.
Trolls and Swords
A much grimmer and darker episode with much less talking. Shortly after they find Orcrist and Glamdring, they hear an Orc pack approaching and kill a scout.
Gandalf: "This is a scout... with the symbol of Mount Gundabad. Thorin, who have you told about your quest?"
Thorin: "Noone."
Gandalf: WHO?"
Thorin: "Noone, I promise."
Gandalf: "The Orcs of Mount Gundabad are no mere savages... if they leave their stronghold, they do not hunt a group of travellers this far South, without a reason. And there is only one other that knew about this quest... Thrain."
Flight to Rivendell
Rivendell Episode
Largely the same, including the Moon Runes.
The White Council
Radagast is also introduced here. Saruman is worried about the quest for Erebor, it might awake a dragon without good reason. Gandalf, however, tells them about being hunted by Gundabad Orcs. He also tells them that before Thrain vanished they had spoken about retaking Erebor and that he might be a prisoner of the Orcs. Saruman and Elrond interfer, claiming that the Orcs of Moria do not have any interest in Erebor or the politics of Middle-earth. Galadriel and Radagast, reporting that the stronghold of Dol Guldur has once again become a place of evil and that Gundabad Orcs have gathered there for a while now, similar to those Gandalf described, who might very well hace connections to the Orcs in Moria. Saruman and Elrond want Gandalf to drop the Quest for Erebor and investigate Dol Guldur instead. At that point Lindir arrives and tells them of the Dwarves secret departure.
Company leaving Rivendell
Gandalf / Galadriel conversation
Gandalf: "I am afraid of what might wait for us in Dol Guldur."
Largely the same, though.
Journey over the Mountain
No thunderbattle. They just see creepy shadows of the giants in the misty distance.
Goblin Town
After Bilbo falling into the deep we see the Gollum episode right away. After he has become invisible we see the confrontation with the Goblin King. After the conversation about the pale Orc, Azog steps out of the dark, together with his pack, ready to execute Thorin who is completely shocked to see his nemesis. However, Gandalf arrives and kills the Goblin King, creating enough chaos to flee with the dwarves. Azog and his pack try to pursue them.
Bilbo letting Gollum live and rejoin the Company
Into the Fire
Before they can rest Azog and his pack come out of the Goblin Town gate. Once the trees are on fire, and the tree the Company sits on is in danger of falling into the abyss, Beorn arrives and slashes through Azog's pack. The Eagles arrive and pick up the Company, though one of them is shot by one of the Orcs. As more and more goblins appear, Beorn retreats.
Flight of the Eagles, though shorter
The Eagles leave the Company on the Carrock. One of the dwarves asks Gandalf why they didn't take them further.
Gandalf: "Be glad they helped us at all. The Eagles are no mere birds. They do not interfere with the doings of men, elves and dwarves - too long they have been hunted down as trophies. And they have lost one of their own saving us."
One of the dwarves asks about the creature that helped them and Gandalf tells them about Beorn and that his house may be the only shelter for them in this Orc-infested part of the world.
Beorn's House
Mostly as in the movie but without the chase in the beginning. Gandalf and Beorn talk about the gathering Orcs. Beorn leads Gandalf on a hill and they see a dark part of Mirkwood in the distance - Dol Guldur.
Beorn promises to lead away the Orcs so the Company can enter Mirkwood unseen. Gandalf announces he has to leave and will meet them again before they enter the Mountain.
Spiders
Mainly as in DoS.
Legolas and Tauriel
Similar to DoS but without the Kili/Tauriel episode.
Woodland Realm
Basically the same.
Rhosgobel
As decided in the Council, Gandalf meets with Radagast in Rhosgobel. They set out to investigate Dol Guldur.
Cells
It is hinted at that the Company has been in prison for several days already. Tauriel shows sympathy for the dwarves and their cause and is shocked by their reports about the Gundabad Orcs. She tells Legolas - who is torn between his own fears and loyality to is isolationist father.
Dol Guldur
Radagast and Gandalf find Dol Guldur empty. They venture into the fortress. When Radagast wants to leave as they do not find anything they meet Thrain. He shows signs of torture and as he is unable to answer them any questions Gandalf realizes that there must be a concealment spell and breaks it. They are surrounded by Orcs and the torture master who is identified as Bolg appears.
Gandalf and Radagast kill some of the Orcs, showing that there is not enough of them to kill two Isatri, though Bolg captures Thrain in the the process and kills him in front of their eyes. As Gandalf wants to kill him the spell backfires and Bolg disappears.
Radagast: "This magic was no doing of the Orc."
Gandalf: "No. It wasn't."
Barrels out of Bond
Azog and his Orc pack appear and the ride down the river becomes a nasty fight between dwarves, elves and orcs. In the process several of the dwarves obtain minor injuries, some of the Elves get killed. Legolas wants to return once the dwarves are out of sight, though Tauriel tells him she will pursue them and that he should call for reinforcements. They separate with Legolas telling her to be careful.
The Nine and the One
Gandalf and Radagast try to escape the labyrinth of Dol Guldur. Suddenly a booming voice starts to speak.
Sauron: "Three for the Elven Kings under the sky. Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of stone. Nine for mortal men doomed to die."
The Nazgul appear in their FotR form and a fierce fight with fire and lightning starts. As the Nazgul seem to be retreating, the voice starts again.
Sauron: "One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne, in the land of Mordor where shadows lie."
The "black cloud" appears. Gandalf urges Radagast to flee and call for help while he tries to hold back Sauron, Radagast does as he is told. Sauron appears in his fiery form, explodes into the eye and surrounds Gandalf with fire, breaking his staff.
Gandalf: "Sauron!"
Sauron: "One Ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."
Ending
It cuts back to Bilbo playing with the Ring on the shores of the river. The Company sits a bit further away, cleaning and drying their belongings. Thorin approaches Bilbo and finally opens up to him, thanking him for helping them escape.
Bilbo: "I think the worst is behind us."
The thrush flies by. The camera moves further and further away, opening up a gigantic panorama. The Long-Lake comes into sight, as well as Esgaroth. The camera moves towards Erebor, following the thrush's flight. The Eye of Smaug. The End.
I will continue with "There and Back Again" later, if anyone is interested.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Macfeast
Rohan
Jan 29 2015, 10:39am
Post #2 of 25
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I quite enjoy things like this; Exercises in storytelling, so to speak, all in good fun, no harm intended. If I was looking to get into filmmaking, I would probably be doing things like this all the time.
I do think it is interesting how you introduced Azog in Goblin-town, as I had similarly considered a scenario in which Bolg - playing the main orc antagonist, no Azog present - was introduced in Goblin-town. Seems like a good place to really start ramping up the tension, and introduce elements that will ultimately pay off later in the story, no?
Other random thoughts:
Bilbo's "Azanu...?" was a nice touch. The name tends to evoke that response from many, so it's funny to think of Bilbo, the audience surrogate, reacting similarly. A nice little nod to Sam's comments about the dwarven language in Moria, too.
Cutting away from Thranduil's Halls would probably help illustrate the passage of time.
I am eagerly looking forward to your "There and Back Again".
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Jan 29 2015, 10:52am)
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jan 29 2015, 10:48am
Post #3 of 25
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You have certainly addressed some issues in Jackson's version, such as the Eagles not being a taxi service, and giving Beorn a much stronger presence throughout the storyline. I also like how you've brought Thrain into the timeline much better - particularly the handing over of the map and key, etc. Even from a quick overview I immediately get the feeling of a tighter, more suspenseful screenplay...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 29 2015, 2:26pm
Post #4 of 25
(1344 views)
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Thanks for the feedback, guys.
In order to allow for a more complete discussion, here is "There and Back Again" right away.
One of my biggest crimes against the lore is probably that I included the sue of the Three against Sauron as "weapons".
The Hobbit - There and Back Again
Prologue
We see a Dwarven stronghold that is identified as Thorin's exile kingdom in the Blue Mountains. We witness a gathering of the Dwarf lords, including Dain and Thorin. Thorin explains that Gandalf the Grey has urged him to retake Erebor and offered his help. He tells them that his Company will gather in the Shire, as Gandalf found a powerful ally there. Dain shows great sympathy for Thorin's cause though most of the others refuse to follow Thorin's family.
"You could not even save the Arkentsone. The symbol that your grandfather arrogantly chose to defend his claim to rule. You are a lord of the dwarves, Thorin Oakenshield. But you are no greater than any of us here. Erebor is lost."
Bard
The Company has reached the Long-Lake, as they wonder how to cross the lake they encounter Bard. The company is in a bad shape, several of them are wounded, they have lost most of their belongings. Not all of them are too willing to follow Thorin much further.
Woodland Realm
Legolas returns and tells his father about what has happened and that Tauriel went on pursuing the Orcs. Instead of sending reinforcements, Thranduil commands Legolas to follow Tauriel and tell her to return immediately if she does not want to get banished. He is enraged by the Elves killed in the pursue. Legolas leaves. Learning about the Gundabad Orcs he commands the Realm to be completely shut off from the rest of the world.
"I will not again follow anyone into a war with the Orcs. Least of all Thorin Oakenshield. He is an enemy of this realm."
Lothlorien
Radagast enters Caras Galadhon and is brought to Galadriel. He collapses in front of her and tells her of what has happened in Dol Guldur. She immediately sends out messengers to Isengard and Rivendell and commands a host of the Galadhrim to gather in order to cross the river and attack Dol Guldur.
Radagast: "But his might is too terrible... how could we hope to defeat him?"
Galadriel: "The power of the Three Elven Rings might be strong enough to drive him out of Dol Guldur. Their power has remained a secret but it is time for them to step forward."
Radagast: "The Three Elven Rings?"
Galadriel: "Lord Elrond and I are the keepers of the Ring of Water and the Ring of Air. The Ring of Fire... we must act and free Gandalf."
Dol Guldur
Cut to Gandalf in the cage, focus on his Ring. Underneath the cage Bolg throws more wood on a fire that threatens to burn Gandalf who has obviously been tortured.
Bolg: "What were you doing here, wizard? Who are your allies? What are the plans of the White Council? What do you know about the One Ring?"
The black cloud appears, surrounds Gandalf who is obviously in pain. He hears Sauron in his head asking the same questions. Images flash before him... he tries to hide his knowledge from Sauron. But, similar to Merry in the Palantir, he can also see glimpses of Sauron's thoughts. The burning Erebor, full with Orcs, led by Azog, the North on fire under the wings of the dragon.
Arrival in Esgaroth
Similar to DoS, introduction of Bard's family, the Master and Alfrid.
Especially Kili suffers more and more from his wounds.
Tauriel and Legolas
The Elves meet at the shores of the Long-lake. Tauriel reports that Azog and his pack seems to have lost the trail but that they will surely try to reach Esgaroth, the logical goal of the dwarves.
Legolas tells her to return with him immediately and that she will be banished otherwise. She calls him out on the arrogant and isolationist stand of Thranduil and the Woodland Realm, that she feels trapped in a golden cage there and that she won't return with Esgaroth - their loyal trading partner - endangered by Azog and his orcs.
Bard's house / Prophecy / the dwarves meet the Master
Basically the same as in DoS.
Dol Guldur
Gandalf is once again interrogated by Sauron. This time Sauron appears less cruel, though, almost friendly, trying to tempt him.
Sauron: "Your resistance is worthless, wizard. The North will fall. The Age of the Orcs will come very soon. You could be one of its leaders. You could be my hand and mouth. Follow me, Gandalf, and we will rule this Middle-earth together. End the pain... end the suffering."
Gandalf refuses with his last power.
Sauron: "Fool."
In front of Gandalf Sauron commands Bolg to lead the Orcs that gathered in Dol Guldur to march on Erebor and offer Smaug the wealth of the kingdoms of Men in the South if he swears allegiance to Sauron and holds the North for him. Bolg follows his orders and a host of Orcs leaves Dol Guldur, witnessed by Gandalf.
Company leaves Esgaroth and reaches Erebor
Fili, Kili, Bofur and Oin stay behind because of Kili's wounds. The rift between uncle and nephews, especially Fili and Thorin, grows larger. The Company reaches the Mountain and the door, which they are able to open rather quickly after the thrush sits down next to the key hole. Bilbo enters Erebor.
Lake-town
Bard takes in the dwarves and tells his son about the black arrow, fearing what the arrival of the dwarves in Erebor might cause. He is arrested for standing up against the Master and the Master's decision to assist the dwarves, while Bain is able to hide the arrow.
Azog, Legolas & Tauriel
Close to the place where the bridge leading to Esgaorth reaches land, Azog and his pack capture a trader leaving the city. They force him to reveal what happened to the dwarves . Azog is enraged and is sure that Thorin will have reached the mountain by now.
As he commands one of his orcs to kill the trader, said Orc is killed by an arrow. Tauriel and Legolas attack the pack from the trees. Azog, instead of going after Thorin, commands his Orcs to kill the Elves who lead the Orcs away from Esgaroth.
Dol Guldur
Sauron gives up on getting any more information out of Gandalf. The Nine appear and receive the command to kill the wizard. The cloud disappears and the Nazgul approach Gandalf.
At this moment little spherical missiles hit the courtyard they are standing in and explode. Parts of the fortress collapse. A host of Galadhrim storms the bridge of Dol Guldur, led by Elrond and Galadriel. Radagast and Saruman stand on the hills opposite the fortress and observe Elves operating Saruman's ballistas and catapults.
Elrond and Galadriel soon reach Gandalf and the Nazgul, as most of the Orcs have left for Erebor. They get into a fierce fight with the Nazgul, Galadriel manages to get Gandalf out of his cage. As the Nazgul retreat, Sauron appears and sets the whole place aflame.
Most of the Elves are killed. As Gandalf wakes up, Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf use their rings which start to glow and push back Sauron's flames. Eventually, Sauron flees similarly to how he escapes in BotFA, which is also observed by Saruman and Radagast who join the others.
Bilbo/Smaug
Basically as in DoS. Though the dwarves do not enter Erebor. Smaug leaves the mountain, setting parts of the mountain side on fire, which is observed by the people in Esgaroth. The dwarves only rescue themselves by also entering Erebor through the hidden door.
Rhosgobel
The survivors of the skirmish at Dol Guldur reach Rhosgobel. Gandalf wants to leave for Erebor immediately, despite being weakened after his imprisonment. He tells the Council about Sauron's plan to enslave the North with the help of Smaug.
Gandalf: "We didn't defeat Sauron... he will return. Who knows whether he just tested us today. Test our resolution to resist him. He was hiding in Dol Guldur all this time, preparing for another war."
Elrond: "We will send out messengers to Rohan and Gondor immediately. They have to be warned. The borders of Mordor have to be protected."
Galadriel: "He deceived us... once again."
Saruman: "But he was greatly weakened. He will never regain his full power... not without the One Ring. You, Gandalf, will have to rectify what you set in motion by sending out Thorin Oakenshield to reclaim Erebor. Leave Sauron to me."
Gandalf prepares to leave, he tells Galadriel and Radagast that the North will need all the help it can get to withstand Sauron's armies.
Radagast gives him his staff, announcing that it will be of more use to Gandalf and that he will stay in Mirkwood from now on, protecting it as long as possible against the evil influences.
Galadriel assures Gandalf that all their allies will be informed. Gandalf leaves.
The Destruction of Lake-town
Smaug reaches Lake-town and destroys it. Bard escapes from prison and brings his kids on one of the boats that try to flee the city. Bain refuses to be sent away and climbs the bell tower with his father after they have collected the Black Arrow. Together they manage to kill the dragon (as in BotFA).
The destruction of the town and the death of the dragon is observed from the distance by Bilbo and the dwarves, as well as Legolas, Tauriel and the Orcs and even Thranduil from the Woodland Realm. The two Elves escape their followers and return to Esgaroth.
Bolg who has rode on his warg ahead of his army reaches Azog's pack.
Bolg: "It is the Master's wish to seek the dragon's allegiance."
Azog: "The dragon is dead. It is on us now to reclaim the North for the Orcs."
Bolg: "My host will reach the Mountain in a few days."
Azog: "This will not be enough. The dwarf has powerful allies. We were ambushed by Elves on our way here. I will ride for Mt. Gundabad and return with the legions."
Bolg: "Two armies... against Elves, Men and Dwarves."
Shores of the Long-lake
The survivors of Lake-town gather on the shores of the Long-lake. Alfrid riles them up against the dwarves who remained in Lake-town. Only Bard stops them from lynching the dwarves and tells them to go after their uncle, telling him that the people of Lake-town demand him to stick to his promise. The dwarves leave.
Legolas and Tauriel reach the refugee camp and aid the survivors.
We see Gandalf riding towards the North
Shores of the Long-lake
Thranduil reaches the refugee camp with his army and supplies. He tells Bard that he and his people have suffered as well because of the greed of the dwarves and that he has older business with the dwarves. Pushed by his people, Bard agrees to march on Erebor and demand a part of the treasure from Thorin - he has nowhere else to go with the Lake-towners.
Thranduil ignores what Legolas has to tell him about Azog and angrily banishes Tauriel who stands up for her attempt to save both the dwarves and Esgaroth from the Orcs. She leaves, followed by Legolas.
Erebor
The remaining dwarves reach Erebor and meet Bilbo there. The dragon-sickness plot basically happens as in BotFA.
Men and Elves enter Dale, while Erebor is prepared for a siege.
Gandalf reaches Dale and calls Thranduil and Bard out on this madness and tries to warn them that the Orcs might soon attack the region.
Arkenstone
After Thorin refuses to give Men and Elves their share of the treasure, he sends out a raven to Dain, claiming that he has found the Arkenstone.
Bilbo leaves Erebor for Dale (also basically as in the book).
Desolation
The hosts of Azog, coming from the North, and Bolg, coming from the South, unite.
Elves and Men lay siege to Erebor.
Basically as in BotFA.
The Battle of the Five Armies
As Dain arrives and they all prepare for battle, the sky suddenly turns dark by thousands of bats flying over the three hosts.
The Orcs attack from both slopes of the Mountain that lead to the plain in front of the gates of Erebor. It begins to snow, a lot of the fighting happens on snow and ice and the slopes of the mountain, not just the plain.
Even after Thorin decides to join the battle, the Free Peoples are slowly pushed to the Gates of Erebor.
When all seems lost, Beorn and the Eagles arrive. Beorn jumps from the back of an eagle right into the Orc army, transforms into the bear form and grows larger and larger, slashing through the ranks of the enemy.
Bilbo gets knocked out.
With new hope, Thorin gathers his dwarves around him and leads another charge towards the center of the Orc army.
Legolas and Tauriel also rejoin the fighting and save Thranduil as he is surrounded by enemies. They try to fight their way towards the dwarves who have fought their way right into the heart of the Orc host.
Bolg tries to take on Beorn and is eventually slain by him.
Thorin, Fili and Kili meet Azog on the battlefield and a fierce fight breaks out. They are cut off by the others who desperately try to reach them. Thorin wounds Azog but gets badly wounded himself, in a last stand Fili and Kili stand over the bleeding body of their uncle but as Azog calls on his closest allies they are slain in front of Thorin's eyes.
The combined charge of Men, Dwarves and Elves (and their leaders) drives back the Orcs more and more. Dain reaches his kin before Azog can kill Thorin and slays the already wounded Orc.
Battle aftermath
Bilbo awakes and witnesses the retreating Orcs, followed by the armies of the Free Peoples. He finds Thorin on the battlefield, surrounded by the other dwarves and the dead bodies of Fili and Kili. They talk to each other mostly as in BotFA, after Throin has chosen Dain as his heir, now that his nephews are dead.
Tauriel walks over the battlefield and is completely shocked that this is the world she always wanted to see more of. Legolas is heartbroken, as Tauriel begs Thranduil to let her go to the Havens and leave Middle-earth. Thranduil agrees. When Legolas announces to his father that he cannot return to Mirkwood either, Thranduil tells him travel the world instead in his name.
Thranduil: "The Woodland Realm will need allies in the coming darkening days."
Funeral and Coronations
All of this is a "collage" of scenes.
The Durin's are laid to rest. The funeral is attended by Thranduil, Dain, Beorn, Gandalf, Bilbo, Bard and all the other dwarves.
Dain and Bard are crowned as the new leaders of Erebor and Dale and shake their hands as a symbol for the renewed alliance between Men and Dwarves.
Gandalf: "And even if the fate of Middle-earth may not be decided in this part of the world, we will all rest easier knowing that this alliance of Men and Dwarves secures the North once again."
Bilbo leaves for the Shire, Return Journey
Basically the same as in BotFA, maybe a hint at Balin's plans to go to Moria.
Auction
Same as in BotFA.
Ending
Bilbo cleaning Bag-end after his return is accompanied with Old Bilbo saying:
"And so my adventure ended. I had seen many sorrows, and lost too many friends. And yet, all the while I sit and think of old times. I listen and hope to hear the returning feet and voices at the door of Bag-end. And for a new adventure to start."
Bilbo playing with the Ring, switch to Old Bilbo.
Gandalf knocking at the door, the camera fading onto the map of Erebor.
The End
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Altaira on Jan 29 2015, 3:36pm)
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Jan 29 2015, 2:59pm
Post #5 of 25
(1275 views)
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I actually did something similar! I hope you would be interested in reading about how I would have done the films. I will post them later, as I have a paper I need to finish now lol.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 29 2015, 4:23pm
Post #6 of 25
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It's a very interesting read....
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And overall I think it could work as an alternative adaptation. It's coherent and you've tried to tie in the various storylines.
There are a couple of things that I don't think would work, though. One is Thrain. I can see what you're trying to do there, but the idea of Gandalf finding Thrain wandering about by the East Gate of Moria with his map and key doesn't seem to me to make sense. How long has he been there and why have the orcs not found him, as they seem to be all around?
Also Azanulbizar (that's a lovely neat little touch, having Bilbo query the name). Introducing the flashback in Bag End would make the Bag End scene even longer. It would also shift the meaning of the flashback, which in AUJ was used with Balin's voiceover (I would miss Balin's voiceover, but you couldn't use it in this context) - to emphasise Thorin's character and explain the name 'Oakenshield'. In your structure it becomes a general account of the battle. Then you make the Bag End scene even longer with a second flashback showing Gandalf finding Thrain and then losing him.
I think the idea that Thrain knew about the quest and therefore must have been taken prisoner is also a problem. It doesn't work because in the storyline you describe Thrain doesn't know about the quest. All he knows is that he told Gandalf he wanted Thorin to attempt it. How would he know that Gandalf told Thorin, or that Thorin decided to do it - most critically of all - when. He doesn't know anything that could alert the orcs to what's happening and help them find Thorin's company. Then you inroduce yet another Thrain scene later, which doesn't add anything (too much Thrain!)
Next, I'm puzzled by the idea of introducing Beorn during 'Into the fire'. Seems too complicated as it raises all sorts of questions about how he knows and what he's doing there. Far better, I'd say, to leave his introduction until after the eagle rescue (I wouldn't kill an eagle either - seems unecessary).
And next, as you've kept Tauriel in (cheers! ) I think dropping the 'Feast of Starlight' conversation is a big mistake. You've kept her in the film but denied your audience the chance to get to know her, and to see how her character reflects on Thranduil and his realm.
But my biggest question to you is the timing. How do you know all this could be done in 3 hours? I don't think it could. Seems to me that one of the big problems Peter Jackson and his team encounter is that they play the game you're playing - brainstorm the story, possible expansions to storylines, things they'd like to include - and come up with all sorts of ideas. Far too many, when it comes to it, to fit into the final film. I think you'd have the same problem....
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 29 2015, 6:17pm
Post #7 of 25
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Thanks for a very interesting read
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While I think you have some great ideas, I think this post highlights well how very different people's expectations are. Looking also at some fan edits it's always fascinating to see what people keep and what they discard, which scenes are more important to them and which are clearly not.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jan 29 2015, 6:27pm
Post #8 of 25
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Thanks for all your hard work.
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The main point that emerges from your ideas is you are making much effort to connect up the various elements of the story together and explain what is going on and give it more cohesion. You are also taking advantage to develop the sub plot a great deal more.
If I may would just make three observations which are general ones not specifically about your treatment.
1) There are three elements driving the script a book. some appendices material and some previous films. You have really got to decide exactly what your story is and keep an absolute firm grip on it not be sentimental or pander to so called market segments. If you need 13 Dwarves to tell that story you have 13 if it takes 7 you have 7. If you include Legolas, which is historically accurate, use him for the story you have decided upon not the other way round. If you are going to draw in the appendices in relation to Thorin's parental history and the "House of Azog" only do so to enrich the main narrative and underwrite his character do not use them to corrupt the original narrative and over complicate it.
2) Use the extended editions to include material to satisfy your "inner Tolkien" . As the book was written episodically some wonderful scenes and characters operate in isolation outside of the core narrative if they are filmable include them in the E E.
3) The script writers decided back in 08/09 to drop the bridge film and to tell Gandalf's story on screen. Sir Ian is your trump card and Dol Gulder is rich with possibility and provides the real link, along with the ring finding, to the hugely successful films already made. It is also a point at which Sauron is arguably at his most interesting, still manageable by the wise. Let Dol Gulder yield all its dark secrets, its pits its torturers and its victims in rich detail. Create the kind of atmosphere that they did fleetingly in ROFK when you see the WK place his crown upon his head in the chambers of Minus Morgul.
I am still working on my own ideas. I have written a what is the essence of the story and how that story affects the films.
I am only delaying because I am really excited to catch the final film in Wellington next week in my preferred format 3D 48 FPS Dolby Atmos. I want to see how Alfrid and I get on this time ha ha!
Thanks again Arannir particularly as English is not your first language.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 29 2015, 8:19pm
Post #9 of 25
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Thanks to all tjlhe feedback by several people.
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Answering your specific points here. Though in general I realized that I didn't explain enough, especially of what I am actually keeping of the scenes we already got.
1) Thrain would have been noticed by the Orcs but as he wonders around Moria lost and close to madness, they simply let them there, similar to how Sauron lets him walk around DG in the trilogy.
2) I would probably cut more from the unexpected party in order to have the flashbacks there. As charming as I find that half hour in AUJ, some parts would have to go in a two movie treatment. The dish washing first of all, I guess.
3) That would depend on what Thrain and Gandalf talk about. It would need to be specific enough. I forgot to mention later, though, that Bolg should confirm in DG that Thrain led the. on the Company's track.
4) Here we disagree... Beorn could be led there by the fire. As I would move his house and the mountains closer together it would be the area he tries to guard. I personally would have liked to play a more active part here.
5) This is one of the instances where I didn't explain enough. Tauriel's monologue on light etc should definately part of the cells episode.
6) I think it is doable in two three hour movies. Though there would definately be hard EE decisions.
Thanks - this is fun. :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 29 2015, 8:22pm
Post #10 of 25
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Thanks and agreed on your general points.
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This is what I partially tried to do (and what I thought didn't fully work in the trilogy all the time), though written together too generally and shallow to fully address all of it, of course. Would LOVE to read your ideas.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jan 29 2015, 8:25pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 29 2015, 8:27pm
Post #11 of 25
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I probably go even further away from the style and tone of TH as a book, making it even grimmer. I am absolutely sure many people would dislike this.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien
Jan 30 2015, 5:46am
Post #12 of 25
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...and you did an excellent and thorough job of laying out your vision. I think my ideal version of the Hobbit would be very different, however. I want the tone to be much closer to the book, so I would actually put more emphasis on the more whimsical elements (the dish scene, the introductions to Beorn, etc.). I would make this a much smaller scale story than LOTR, with the emphasis almost entirely on Bilbo and the Dwarves.
I do like Tauriel and Alfrid as characters, so they could have roles, but Legolas would just have a cameo appearance in Mirkwood and then show up for the BOFA. I also agree with you about making two films.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jan 30 2015, 8:29am
Post #13 of 25
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It has to pass the test of a one stop experience
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Just one other thing.
This was a point my non Tolkien fan friend made to me. You have to produce a film which you assume several hundred thousand to a million casual film people are going to see the film just once. That is why the narrative has to be coherent with arcs closing off in an orderly sequence and lose ends need to be tied up or if it is enigmatic make it clear it is enigmatic.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Jan 30 2015, 5:03pm
Post #14 of 25
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I kept the three movies, as my outline I think warranted keeping it at 3 (I copied this from Microsoft Word so that's the reason for my formatting):
o An Unexpected Journey
§ Erebor prologue read by Ian Holm’s Bilbo, no Frodo
§ Radagast scene tweaked to make it appear that Dol Guldur is not a new danger, but a dormant one re-awakening - Erebor prologue read by Ian Holm's Bilbo; no Frodo
§ Azog kills King Thror
§ Dain and Thorin kill Azog as Bolg (who is fighting Nain, Thrain, Dwalin, and Balin) looks on
§ Bolg mortally wounds Nain and flees the battlefield
§ Círdan on his way to Rivendell saves the Dwarves from the Great Goblin's Warg riders
§ Dwarves stay in Rivendell is toned down a bit
§ White Council meeting: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Galadriel, Elrond, Círdan, Glorfindel, and Erestor are present
§ The Council discusses Radagast's report of the Necromancer's return
§ Thorin and Company leave Rivendell
§ Thunder Battle
§ Under Hill
§ Riddles in the Dark
§ Gandalf saves the Dwarves and kills the Great Goblin
§ The Goblins corner the Company in the trees
§ The Eagles arrive
§ While the Eagles rescue the Dwarves, Beorn scares off the Goblins
o The Desolation of Smaug
§ The Quest for Erebor: Thrain captured by Bolg
§ A mysterious Orc pack appears and chases the Company to Beorn's house
§ Beorn scares off the Orc pack
§ Bolg is shown to be the leader of the Orc Pack
§ Gandalf and Beorn leave the Company after seeing them safely to Mirkwood to investigate Dol Guldur
§ The presence of Beorn forced Bolg and his hunters to wait until the bear and the wizards left to resume their pursuit
§ Bolg and his trackers follow the company through Mirkwood
§ Gandalf and Beorn investigate Dol Guldur; Sauron remains hidden
§ Dwarves captured by Legolas and interrogated by Thranduil
§ Bilbo gets the Dwarves out of the Woodland Realm (no barrel fight scene)
§ The Dwarves stop at Lake-town
§ Thrain surprise-attacks Gandalf and Beorn; they are separated before Beorn can change into his bear form
§ During the confusion, Beorn is captured by Sauron and imprisoned
§ Thrain tells Gandalf everything he knows about Sauron’s plan; Gandalf heals Thrain and attempts to get him out of Dol Guldur, trusting that Beorn will meet him; Gandalf now thinks the Necromancer is the Witch-king of Angmar
§ Thrain is slain by the a Nazgul dart as he and Gandalf leave Dol Guldur; this further re-enforces the belief of the Grey Wizard that the Necromancer is Angmar
§ Inside Information
§ The Forges
§ Fire and Water
§ Shores of the Long Lake
§ White Council meeting in Lorien; Gandalf shows his evidence and reports Beorn having gone missing; Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur and devises a battle plan
o The Battle of the Five Armies
§ Prologue: Meeting of the 7 Dwarf families
§ Bard leads the men of Lake-town to Dale
§ Sauron releases Beorn (fake escape), who turns into his bear form and heads north to his home
§ Thorin searches for the Arkenstone
§ The White Council approaches Dol Guldur
§ Erestor, Celeborn, and Radagast clear a path through the Spiders
§ Thranduil arrives at Erebor
§ Saruman, Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, Glorfindel, and Círdan enter Dol Guldur and begin to search the structure
§ Parlay between Bilbo, Thorin, Thranduil, and Bard
§ Bolg and his hunters join the force from Dol Guldur
§ Galadriel and Saruman encounter Sauron while the rest of the White Council is attacked by the Nazgűl
§ Saruman overcomes Galadriel
§ Sauron defeats the rest of the White Council; only Saruman is still fighting
§ Saruman and Sauron fight; Sauron, having already fought the other Council members, is overcome and flees to Mordor
§ Gandalf rides to Erebor
§ Radagast alerts the Eagles
§ Saruman leads the rest of the Council on a hunt for Sauron
§ Dain arrives at Erebor
§ Gandalf arrives at Erebor and warns the Free Peoples of Bolg's army from Gundabad and the Necromancer's force from Dol Guldur
§ The White Council chases Sauron to Mordor and finds that both the Black Gate has been rebuilt and Minas Morgul has been re-occupied
§ The Battle of Five Armies begins
§ Thranduil, Bard, and Dain are separated
§ Thranduil retreats to Dale with Gandalf, Bilbo, and most of his army; they are pursued by Bolg and a significant chunck of the Dol Guldur army
§ Bard, the Men, Legolas, and the rest of the Elves are forced back to the Front Gate of Erebor
§ Dain and his army retreat toward Ravenhill
§ Thranduil retreats with the majority of his army, along with Gandalf and Bilbo, towards Dale
§ Bolg and his guards reach Thranduil, Gandalf, and Bilbo
§ Bolg knocks out Bilbo
§ Thranduil and Gandalf defeat Bolg's trackers from DOS; they are separated
§ Gandalf gets Bilbo to safety
§ Thranduil duels Bolg to a stalemate
§ Radagast reaches the Carrock and tells Beorn of the Orc armies marching for Erebor
§ Thorin throws off the dragon-sickness
§ Thorin charges out of Erebor
§ Bolg pulls out of Dale and goes West to Ravenhill
§ Thorin, Bard, and Legolas lead a renewed attack on the army from Dol Guldur
§ Bolg orders the army from Gundabad to attack Dain's forces at Ravenhill
§ Thorin, Fili, and Kili rush to the aid of Dain
§ The Eagles arrive and attack the Dol Guldur army
§ Thranduil uses this chance to sally forth from Dale
§ The Dol Guldur army is hard-pressed to keep up the fight
§ The Gundabad army arrives: Goblins scale the Lonely Mountain, and Bolg leads a massive army of Orcs, Trolls, Wargs, and Bats
§ The Bats attack the Eagles
§ The 2 evil armies attack Dain from both sides
§ Thorin, Fili, and Kili fight through the weakened Dol Guldur host and reach Dain's command area on Ravenhill just as Bolg and his guard are breaking into the hill
§ Fight on Ravenhill; Bolg mortally wounds Thorin; Bolg and his guard then defeat Kili and Fili
§ Beorn arrives and destroys the Gundabad army
§ Thranduil, Bard, and Dain finish off the Dol Guldur army; the arrival of Beorn freed up Dain's forces
§ Beorn brings the wounded Thorin to Gandalf just outside of Dale
§ Bilbo wakes up and speaks to Thorin before he dies
§ Funeral for Thorin, Fili, and Kili
§ Dain and Bard are crowned together
§ The White Council members, seeing that they alone cannot overcome the new might of Sauron and Mordor, return to their homes; Saruman decides to use the Palantir of Orthanc
§ Bilbo journeys home with Gandalf and Beorn (follows book pretty close)
There would be an increased focus on Fili being the heir to the throne as well. These aren't my final versions but I am interested to hear your thoughts. I do like that we had the same idea of Beorn appearing at the end of AUJ!
(This post was edited by KingTurgon on Jan 30 2015, 5:05pm)
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 1 2015, 9:11am
Post #15 of 25
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I get exactly what you are trying to do here.Your treatment reads like the appendices in LOTR rich in detail of movement and personalities. It would form the basis of a great mini tv series leading into a six part adaption of LOTR.
You also are taking the view that if you have got three movies provide a complex interwoven plot which justifies three films.
My view is the Hobbit Story is about a Dwarven family who Gandalf befriends and the heir is introduced to Bilbo Baggins. What Thorin does not know is that Smaug, in the film version, is now part of Saurons plans and Gandalfs worst fears are going to come to fruition if nothing is done. It is tale of chance and fate rather than strategically fought with lots of planned help.
I would therefore retain Gandalf as the mover and shaker who travels through an empty eriador to the last homely house and it is there the quest and the sub plot are defined.
All of Bilbo's really exciting ventures happen after Rivendell and you have to tell that tale and "explain" Gandalfs absence in the mountain and what his other business is.
All the film makers had to do is make Thranduils kingdom, Bards Home and Bolg more relatable so that when they appear in the story they are more three dimensional.
Its a great "small plot" when put along aside the LOTR and that should never be lost sight off. The only interpretative decision was to explain Gandalfs absences.
Given Thrain and Thror are mentioned in the first chapter and they have a back story history in the appendices that material should be used as well and if necessary in real time to create jeopardy.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Feb 1 2015, 5:48pm
Post #16 of 25
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One significant typo I noticed tho lol
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Saruman would not be overcoming Galadriel, that would be Sauron, as Saruman and Galadriel are on the same side at that point lol
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Feb 5 2015, 5:27am
Post #17 of 25
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I think I may have given the wrong impression. I would indeed continue with the 3 movie treatment. I didn't go into as much detail on AUJ, for example, as there was much less that I would change in that film. Hope that made/makes sense. I just described the battle in detail for BOFA because my series of events would differ and I wanted to make the extent of each character's involvement clearer.
Oh, and my references to Cirdan, Erestor, etc. are part of my larger Middle-earth film series (I am in the process of making more outlines like this) so in that sense they do not come out of nowhere. Just wanted to clarify
(This post was edited by KingTurgon on Feb 5 2015, 5:28am)
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 7 2015, 3:18am
Post #18 of 25
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Hi Arannir,
I promised I would let you have my thoughts.
I am at peace with the films made after my final viewing in Wellington I just know there is a better set of films in there for me.
I have taken the films as gospel in terms of their overall narrative it is just I have placed emphasis on plots sub plots and characters in quite different ways.
I am not pretending all the minor detail I have introduced are mine, some come from the Chronicle Series but all of the ideas i have had are connected in someway to ideas from JRRT's books.
Where I have given dialogue or built a story board it is simply to illustrate much more talented minds than mine would come up with the final version of words or ideas.
I have placed it on my blog for non one ring friends and so those whom are not interested can ignore it.
http://loveofthewritingsoftolkien.blogspot.co.nz
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 7 2015, 3:22am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 7 2015, 10:10am
Post #19 of 25
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I am on the road right now but will read that later. I am sure it will be interesting :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 17 2015, 3:58pm
Post #20 of 25
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I finally found the time to read it and I really, really enjoyed it.
I do think your structure is better than what we got and I have to say I realized reading your outline that I am not yet at peace with the trilogy - the untouched potential and my frustration over this is still too strong, but it gets better and I hope the EE will "reconcile" me a bit.
We addressed our issues very differently but it is interesting to see that there is one big underlining "paradigm" that unites our two attempts: more structure, more focus, connect secondary characters and plotlines with the main-plot and mythology.
I would fancy discussing all this in a new thread if you ever want to open a new one :)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 18 2015, 11:29am
Post #21 of 25
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I have been In New Zealand for many weeks walking and trekking through what is an astonishingly beautiful country. One of the really fun things whilst out walking was to play all sorts of scenario's through (horrible word) trying to find the truth of the story as I see it inspired ironically by in the main ideas that have ben considered by the film makers but also of course Tolkien himself.
As you say it is about tying the plot lines and characters together and interconnecting them so the story has a more symphonic feel.
The one overriding matter the film makers never met head on was the repeat journey to Rivendell. My solution is simple you do not corrupt the history of Eriador and generate made up jeopardy West of the Last Homely House. Instead you play it straight (make changes to the Trolls off screen) and include it as a magnificent special edition and like Steven Spielbergs Close Encounters give it a limited theatre run in the November before the final film. As it would be about 3 hours 30 give it an intermission after the Eagles. That way deep fans get a cinematic presentation of the longer version and Warner Brothers get a third run in the cinema with no additional production costs.
As to a "new" thread here I am wary because some people are very defensive about what was actually produced and make statements like thats your opinion mine is different without really be prepared to consider the unthinkable which you and I have, that these films could have been much better.If you wish to respond and include others in this existing thread I will gladly discuss it .
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 18 2015, 11:31am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Feb 18 2015, 12:44pm
Post #22 of 25
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This is really interesting... maybe some people may join in if they realize that there are some "new posts" not on the front page. A new thread might actually just stir things up that just settled down again. Maybe in a few month there will be the atmosphere for a new front page discussion ;)
I actually was surprised how radical you were in your approach regarding the story before Rivendell.
I am not sure I can get myself to be this radical, however, I completely agree about the trolls being EE material - in a lot of ways it is the "Tom Bombadil" of TH.
I am still bewildered how the crew that made such harsh but always understandable and economic storytelling decisions with LotR, got so completely carried away and unfocused with their version of TH.
The worst examples being
Azog/Bolg
Thranduil's jewels / wife
the Arkenstone and the Seven Kingdoms
Thrain and the Dwarven Rings
the Nazgul / dagger / Gundabad & Angmar .
I simply do not get it. Listening to the commentaries of LotR it is astounding how aware the scripwriters had been about every little hint or nod to other stories, legends and their characters, places and objects.
Listening to the commentaries of AUJ and DoS I find it pretty obvious that PJ (especially) and even PB talk about massive changes in a pretty shallow way. No stories about how the reached a conclusion, not many hints at the evolution process of the story. As if they themselves were either not really aware of it or if several fundamental decisions were simply made "while the train was running".
It shows... unfortunately.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 18 2015, 9:49pm
Post #23 of 25
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I have never listened to the commentaries of the LOTR films just watched the excellent interviews which are rich in perspective. However listening to SIr Peter's commentary over the "Desolation of Smaug" his attitude struck me as perfunctory and vague - a lot like some of the plot making in the film.
I just do not think he really took control of some of the core issues and challenges and provided a clear and decisive narrative. Indecision followed by easy options are written all over the films in particular the 2013 work.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 18 2015, 9:50pm)
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 19 2015, 2:33am
Post #24 of 25
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I agree with all of your examples it as if the fabric of the story telling, to continue the metaphor, falls apart at the seems. I would add to your list the interaction between the map and key its effect on Thrain's story line and Thrains's storyline affect on the history of the family and the unconvincing emotional back drop to the battle of a.
On a more positive note I have been thinking about the dialogue between the 8 Dwarves as they hold back whilst listening to the sound of the awakened Dragon. There is a substantial opportunity to get to know all of them better through their reactions to the simple question what to do next. I have also been considering the effect of the ring on Smaug through the effect of Bilbo being invisible and how that contributed to the Dragons anger subsequent action and death.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Feb 19 2015, 2:34am)
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Feb 22 2015, 2:01am
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In the last week I have been revisiting my ideas and focused on the following;-
1) Making sure the time frames are consistent comparing the company's shorter journey on foot with Gandalf longer sleigh ride to Rhosgobel. Rather neatly both are still in the forest at the same time and Gandalf arrives at D.G. as the Dwarves go ashore at the North of the Lake.
2) Looking more closely at Bolg's purpose of using the Morgul Blade and the decision to "target the Dwarven Prince". It should be clear that Tauriel's action to follow Kili avoids a potential catastrophic kidnapping which Bolg could have used to devastating effect on arrival at Erebor.
Legolas when seeking rapprochement between Thranduil and Tauriel can make this point in his final scene and before the funeral.
3) The potential to develop a really tense narrative stand off between the 6 Dwarves waiting as the Bilbo/Smaug encounter occurs. Dwalin loyal to the disinterested Thorin. Bombur and Ori concerned but feeling the matter is helpless countering Gloin who would make a ridiculous suicidal attack and Balin who finally asserts his statesmanship and insists right at the end they most support their friend.
4) The moral symbolism of the One Ring and Bilbo's courage leading to the Worm flying off and his death reminding us that Sauron overlooks matters (the vain glorious nature of the Smaug) echoing the book and his over looking the Map and key in Thrains possession.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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