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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Would PJ ever release a shorter, book-accurate Hobbit?
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stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 6:49pm

Post #1 of 70 (1833 views)
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Would PJ ever release a shorter, book-accurate Hobbit? Can't Post

There have been a lot of fan cuts recently that trim the Hobbit Trilogy to 3-4 hours, and some are able to completely remove all the unneeded subplots.

-No Kili/Taurial/Legolas love triangle
-No Azog until the end
-No Dol Guldur
-No Radagast
-No Alfrid
-No Frodo
-No flashbacks

and much more. They've been getting a lot of press recently because most people who see the films realize it's butter scraped over too much bread.

I would love to buy an official edited version that strives to replicate the scenes from the book as closely as possible without all the filler. I can read the entire book faster than I can watch all three films, if given the choice of watching or reading in the same time frame I'd prefer the book.

What would it take for this to have a chance of happening? Would it have to take PJ agreeing to make an edit? Can the studio bring in a team to make a professional edit without PJ's approval because it could make them more money?


(This post was edited by stoutfiles on Jan 27 2015, 6:50pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 6:52pm

Post #2 of 70 (1206 views)
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So much effort... [In reply to] Can't Post

...would it not be simpler for you all to crack open the book and enjoy the wonders found therein, instead of telling PJ how he should make his films?

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jan 27 2015, 6:52pm)


Pandallo
Rivendell

Jan 27 2015, 6:57pm

Post #3 of 70 (1117 views)
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No. [In reply to] Can't Post

What you view as "unneeded" helps to flesh out characters. What a shame it didn't appeal to your tastes but it appealed to many others.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 6:58pm

Post #4 of 70 (1189 views)
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I was under the impression... [In reply to] Can't Post

That PJ was forced to make three films for the $$$ it would bring in, forced to put in Tauriel since the studio demanded romance, forced to include Azog to help keep tension in a stretched out journey, etc.

I would think PJ would be happy to cut a book-accurate film after the fact, and say "here, this is the version I wish I could have put in theaters, but money trumps all".


Pandallo
Rivendell

Jan 27 2015, 7:01pm

Post #5 of 70 (1135 views)
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Yeah... no. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Big bad studios ruin everything!" I'll give you that they may have played a hand in BotFA's run time, but this was Peter Jackson's vision along with many others of his crew.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:01pm

Post #6 of 70 (1113 views)
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What I view? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
And so on, I could post links for days. The FACT is, many people feel this way. These edits are getting press because people want them to happen.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 27 2015, 7:21pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 7:01pm

Post #7 of 70 (1130 views)
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No, that is not what happened. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know how many times it needs repeating, but no amount of rampant fan speculation/conspiracy theorizing will change the fact that PJ brought the 3 film idea to the studio, or that the Tauriel-Kili romance was part of the story from the very beginning.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jan 27 2015, 7:02pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 7:04pm

Post #8 of 70 (1094 views)
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None of those people matter. [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ matters. These are his films. And contrary to the fairy tales that have been spun about studio interference, he delivered the films that he wanted.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:08pm

Post #9 of 70 (1084 views)
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Okay, then cut PJ out of the loop [In reply to] Can't Post

They may be films that he shot, but he doesn't own them. It's not like he's George Lucas in this loop, if the studio wanted to go in and re-edit the films, couldn't they? If people want to see a book-accurate Hobbit, what's stopping this from happening other than PJ being sad that some people don't care about the parts he made up? Should he be offended that some people prefer what Tolkien imagined?


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 7:10pm

Post #10 of 70 (1079 views)
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Read the book. [In reply to] Can't Post

These are Peter Jackson films. He's the director. If you want to "cut him out of the loop", then you obviously have no respect for the art or process of filmmaking.

I suggest you either direct your own version of "The Hobbit" or go read Tolkien's book. It's fantastic.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 27 2015, 7:15pm

Post #11 of 70 (1088 views)
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No, of course he won't [In reply to] Can't Post

He's made the adaptation the way he wants it to be - and even if you don't like it you can surely see that it's doing extremely well all round the world. These are films people love. All the storylines on your list were put in for a reason - and I bet that if everyone who complains about The Hobbit made up a list of things to cut out they'd all be different.

And as for Warners, do you really think they care about how close the adapation is to the book? I'm quite sure Peter Jackson cares a whole lot more about it than they do.

It amazes me that so many people think they can tell Peter Jackson how to do his job. He knows what he's doing.


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:17pm

Post #12 of 70 (1056 views)
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You forget who's stories these really are [In reply to] Can't Post

These are Peter Jackson films. He's the director. If you want to "cut him out of the loop", then you obviously have no respect for the art or process of filmmaking.

These are Tolkien's stories. He's the author. If PJ "cut him him out of the loop" (metaphorically since Tolkien is dead), then he obviously has no respect for Tolkien. All of his additions are just warts on a great story crafted by Tolkien.

I tried to give PJ the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't have as much control as he would have liked, and the story was stretched because of the studio. if what you say is true, then PJ knowingly crapped all over Tolkien by making three movies instead of giving us a shorter, better movie that is accurate to the book.


Bishop
Gondor


Jan 27 2015, 7:19pm

Post #13 of 70 (1082 views)
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I don't get this [In reply to] Can't Post

There is precisely ZERO evidence that this is what happened. If the movies are great, give Jackson the credit. If there are problems, give him the criticisms. He's only the DIRECTOR of the movie!!

And hell will freeze over before Jackson has anything more to do with the Hobbit after the BOTFA EE, and I have my doubts about how invested he'll be in that.


Bishop
Gondor


Jan 27 2015, 7:20pm

Post #14 of 70 (1033 views)
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Like community theater perhaps? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I suggest you either direct your own version of "The Hobbit"



Laugh


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 27 2015, 7:23pm

Post #15 of 70 (1064 views)
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Please don't [In reply to] Can't Post

as we'll just have to delete them. Making fan-edits of films is fine, but it's illegal to share them - and we don't allow links to fan-edits on TORN.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:23pm

Post #16 of 70 (1059 views)
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Huh? [In reply to] Can't Post

it's doing extremely well all round the world. These are films people love.

It's doing well because it's a story people love, not because PJ's additions are blowing audiences away. The general consensus is that these films stretched the story too much.

Harry Potter series also did very well. How many people can name all the directors that worked on these films, since that's supposedly important? Can you? Is it because fans love the director(s) and the stuf they make up, or is it because love the stories they read about and hope that the films are accurate to the books?


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:25pm

Post #17 of 70 (1029 views)
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Just showing that people care [In reply to] Can't Post

Normally fan edits are largely ignored, but media everywhere has been picking up these edits because it's something a lot of people are interested in.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 7:28pm

Post #18 of 70 (1050 views)
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No. Tolkien is the author of the source material. PJ is the director of HIS films. [In reply to] Can't Post

He can make his films however he chooses.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


DjU
Lorien

Jan 27 2015, 7:29pm

Post #19 of 70 (1020 views)
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probably all of them. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Harry Potter series also did very well. How many people can name all the directors that worked on these films, since that's supposedly important? Can you? Is it because fans love the director(s) and the stuf they make up, or is it because love the stories they read about and hope that the films are accurate to the books?


I could without looking them up personally name 4 directors that filmed them (not sure but I think that's all of them). And I've only ever seen two and a bit of them. Not sure what you quite weak point was?


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2015, 7:33pm

Post #20 of 70 (1002 views)
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Chris Columbus. Alfonso Cuaron. Mike Newell. David Yates. [In reply to] Can't Post

All with very distinctive styles that made the films their own - Cuaron being my favorite.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 27 2015, 7:36pm

Post #21 of 70 (1005 views)
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And it's great to discuss them. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just don't link to the edits or to pages that have links to them.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:36pm

Post #22 of 70 (1001 views)
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The point was the director is not crucial when adapting a story [In reply to] Can't Post

The majority of people watching Harry Potter films do not know which director directed whcih movie. They rank the films based on how accurate they were to the book, and which books had the better story to begin with.

The director is given the scenes, the lines, everything he/she needs to make the movie. The difficulty is trimming the content to fit the story in a 2-3 hour film. That is the challenge.

PJ didn't need to do this...he could have fit the book in scene for scene, word for word if he truly wanted 3 movies. By changing the story he openly admits that he disapproved of what Tolkien wrote and thought he could do better in the same timeframe.

There are some scenes that PJ did well, and some he did good enough. These scenes could carry the story without all the filler, and I could watch the story in 3 hours vs 9.


(This post was edited by stoutfiles on Jan 27 2015, 7:42pm)


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jan 27 2015, 7:39pm

Post #23 of 70 (999 views)
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It's weird - [In reply to] Can't Post

- I actually like PJ's version of the Hobbit.

There are a few things I'd change, and quite a few things I'd like to add, but overall I like the Hobbit movies.

To be honest, though, I don't think there is any possible version of the Hobbit movies that would have pleased everyone. Too many people want very different things.



Quote
What would it take for this to have a chance of happening? Would it have to take PJ agreeing to make an edit? Can the studio bring in a team to make a professional edit without PJ's approval because it could make them more money?


ANSWER: You'll have to convince the studio that it's actually worth the time and expense, and would make them a decent profit. I'm not sure that even PJ could do that.



From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Jan 27 2015, 7:43pm)


DjU
Lorien

Jan 27 2015, 7:42pm

Post #24 of 70 (984 views)
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A massive assumption [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The majority of people watching Harry Potter films do not know which director directed whcih movie.


That's an impressive bit of research, how long did the fieldwork take...asking all those millions of people...


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 27 2015, 7:49pm

Post #25 of 70 (961 views)
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Common sense? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's called extrapolating. Do you really believe that the majority of people who saw the Harry Potter films can name all the directors? Really?

How about the composers? The producers? The screenwriters? Where is your presumed cutoff on what people know?

Do you think the majority of people saw Fellowship of the Ring because Peter Jackson, director of such films as 'The Frighteners' and 'Meet the Feebles' was involved? Really? You don't think it had anything to do with LOTR already having an established fanbase because it was a great story by Tolkien? No, silly me, it must have been Peter Jackson.

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