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Oleander Took
Rivendell
Jan 26 2015, 4:09pm
Post #1 of 32
(4615 views)
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Martin Freeman not so secret extra role in The Hobbit
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I don't know if anyone had noticed that in AUJ in this scene or if it has been mentioned before
That the one playing Old Bilbo, looked suspiciously in his movements like Martin Freeman. I've, personally, thought from the moment I saw it while watching AUJ, that that was actually Martin Freeman standing in as Sir Ian Holm. Well, now I finally have confirmation, from the web page of one of the make up and prosthetics artists, Katy Fray. Martin did indeed play Old Bilbo too (though i'm happy we didn't get to see him too up close XD)
--------
In the same web page you can see a FANTASTIC pic of Connolly-Dain,
and a couple other characters from The Hobbit.
"The closer you to get to light, the greater your shadow becomes"
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Name
Rohan
Jan 26 2015, 4:39pm
Post #2 of 32
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Connolly looks amazing! Now I really wish he had been in the film looking like that!
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Pandallo
Rivendell
Jan 26 2015, 4:56pm
Post #3 of 32
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Christopher Lee giving Saruman such a delightful smile is heart warming
(Oversized image removed - Ataahua.)
All in all there's a lot of neat stuff on the page. Fantastic work with making Martin Freeman look like Old Bilbo for only several frames. It would seem no one noticed this until now.
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 26 2015, 6:23pm)
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Shirriff Anthony
Bree
Jan 26 2015, 5:01pm
Post #4 of 32
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Dain looks fantastic! Once again we have a beautiful hair and makeup done with a fantastic custome, just like Bolg, and it's replaced by a second rate CGI fill in.I don't know if anyone had noticed that in AUJ in this scene or if it has been mentioned before That the one playing Old Bilbo, looked suspiciously in his movements like Martin Freeman. I've, personally, thought from the moment I saw it while watching AUJ, that that was actually Martin Freeman standing in as Sir Ian Holm. Well, now I finally have confirmation, from the web page of one of the make up and prosthetics artists, Katy Fray. Martin did indeed play Old Bilbo too (though i'm happy we didn't get to see him too up close XD) -------- In the same web page you can see a FANTASTIC pic of Connolly-Dain, and a couple other characters from The Hobbit.
Faramir: “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”
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Dcole4
Rohan
Jan 26 2015, 5:58pm
Post #5 of 32
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How could they replace that with a CGI character. Especially since we know he filmed his scenes with the actors. Absolutely nuts.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 26 2015, 6:22pm
Post #6 of 32
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I honestly thought it was Ian Holm. Thanks for pointing it out! :)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Pandallo
Rivendell
Jan 26 2015, 6:24pm
Post #7 of 32
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Likely because of issues with the prosthetics which could have been complicating his medical issues so while this may have been the original plan (and it looks great!) I can understand why they changed it to keep Connolly as comfortable as possible since he's having issues with Parkinson's as well.
In this situation you can't really blame the director or the actor, circumstances were as permitted.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Jan 26 2015, 6:31pm
Post #8 of 32
(3197 views)
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Dain looks fantastic! Once again we have a beautiful hair and makeup done with a fantastic custome, just like Bolg, and it's replaced by a second rate CGI fill in. I don't know if anyone had noticed that in AUJ in this scene or if it has been mentioned before That the one playing Old Bilbo, looked suspiciously in his movements like Martin Freeman. I've, personally, thought from the moment I saw it while watching AUJ, that that was actually Martin Freeman standing in as Sir Ian Holm. Well, now I finally have confirmation, from the web page of one of the make up and prosthetics artists, Katy Fray. Martin did indeed play Old Bilbo too (though i'm happy we didn't get to see him too up close XD) -------- In the same web page you can see a FANTASTIC pic of Connolly-Dain, and a couple other characters from The Hobbit.
We've known Dain was originally prosthetics for a long time. Since the film came out we knew he was replaced by a digital creation. Did you really think the original prosthetic design from Weta was going to be bad? Of course not!
Also, the design in the film is excellent. It's just a shame he's digital and not real.
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Annatar598
Rohan
Jan 26 2015, 7:52pm
Post #9 of 32
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I wouldn't condemn the filmmakers
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Billy's health is deteriorating as he has both cancer and Parkinson's (for which he is no longer taking medication anymore or something of the sort).
I'm glad Billy wasn't recast and that his design has mostly stayed the same if not looking a bit bulkier and tanky. I'd take a realistic digital double in a heartbeat rather than have Billy over-perform.
What matters most is that Billy loves this role and is undoubtedly aware of the CGI as he provided the ADR. No hard feelings or complaints from me.
"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.
Really? Alright...
Well, proud to be one I guess.
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gliido
Bree
Jan 26 2015, 9:49pm
Post #10 of 32
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Now that I've seen the prosthetic version...
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Now that I've seen the prosthetic version–while it looks rad–I can understand the design change. Connolly definitely gets lost under all that make up. I imagine it was kind of like the design change of Jimmy Nesbitt's Bofur. If you've seen the EE appendices, you'll know that Bofur looked MUCH different during the make-up tests. They ended up toning down all the prosthetics to let Nesbitt's charm break through a lot more. I bet this is what happened with Connolly, only it was far too late in the process to reshoot all of his scenes with a new design. I imagine post-production/editing was well underway when PJ noticed that Connolly wasn't coming through the make up as well as he wanted. If you notice, the new CGI Dain is recognizably Connolly, moreso than the one in this photo.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 26 2015, 11:31pm
Post #11 of 32
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The photo looks good but it could be anybody. When we saw close-ups on Dain in the film he does look like Billy Connolly and as far as I'm concerned he looks real. If that's CGI then it's so good I can't see why anyone would complain about it!
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 27 2015, 12:10am
Post #12 of 32
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Did anyone confirm it was because of his health?
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I think that's a fair speculation, but until anyone says they replaced Connolly with a CGI counterpart because his disease impacted his performance then people should stop stating it as fact. It is equally plausible that with all the changes going on in the film as it came together they decided they needed more flexibility with Dain's character, and simply couldn't get him back for pickups.
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 27 2015, 1:49am
Post #13 of 32
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Thanks a lot for this post, btw
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It's amazing how convincing that work is on Freeman.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Jan 27 2015, 4:18am
Post #14 of 32
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That looks like Holm that's amazing
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 27 2015, 4:29am
Post #15 of 32
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in a million years that the shot of Bilbo saying goodbye to Frodo was not Ian Holm. And it's a long shot, too.
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Pandallo
Rivendell
Jan 27 2015, 4:31am
Post #16 of 32
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I somewhat feel that if they failed to get Ian Holm's back (since Appendices of AUJ have Martin Freeman voiceovering the Prologue instead of Ian Holm) that was the plan they were going to use. For better or worse that was not the case.
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Farficom
Rivendell
Jan 27 2015, 6:56am
Post #17 of 32
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I would also be a bit upset if I were Billy Connolly, and had to go through the whole makeup process only to be replaced with cgi. One of the major let downs of the film... and I hope we get a lot more of Bill/Dain in the extended edition. Along with an explanation from Peter and company.
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aifeme
Rivendell
Jan 27 2015, 7:07am
Post #18 of 32
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I could tell right away. He was moving too fast for his age. But I thought it was just some nameless double actor.
TORn lurker since 2002:]
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 27 2015, 7:23am
Post #19 of 32
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It was the speed that gave it away?
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That's hilarious. You mean the two steps he takes? And the speed with which he brings the pipe up towards his mouth? Haha!
Take another quick look at the open of AUJ where Ian Holm opens the chest and reaches in (the shot from inside the chest). He's hardly moving at "old man speed". You haven't by any chance posted about your observations before, have you?
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Pandallo
Rivendell
Jan 27 2015, 7:41am
Post #20 of 32
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What makes you think that the entire shot was done in full prosthetics? I imagine only part way through the shoot was done as such, it is rather bizarre to think that they did all of the scenes and then said "Nope! Didn't work. Let's CGI it." They likely tried a couple shots. May have decided they didn't care much for it (or other issues pending) and then realized it would be best to do it all in CGI for their purposes.
(This post was edited by Pandallo on Jan 27 2015, 7:41am)
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Jan 27 2015, 7:51am
Post #21 of 32
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Both Connolly and the Weta Chronicles confirm that Dain originally filmed using the infamous red axe. All the scenes we see now in the TE have Dain using Thrain's old red hammer...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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Merovech
Bree
Jan 27 2015, 8:29am
Post #22 of 32
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There's a few bits inside Bag End where you can tell it isn't Ian Holm due to the quickness of the movements.
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aifeme
Rivendell
Jan 27 2015, 10:54am
Post #23 of 32
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I could tell from the first time I've seen an AUJ trailer. It's about his posture ( Holm is an old man, You know) and look how fast he nodded in that scene. Holm couldn't be able to do it that fast. He has also a double actor inside his house, I cannot give You some screens now because I'm at work.
I haven't posted about it before, 'cause it's soo o b v i o u s it wasn't him. And I'm not so geeky about it to write about every single observation. Look at the close-up scenes. He's slightly shaking and barely maintains same position.
Come on, guys!
TORn lurker since 2002:]
(This post was edited by aifeme on Jan 27 2015, 10:55am)
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 27 2015, 3:20pm
Post #24 of 32
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I'm not trying to be combative here, but it's not as if Holm is so old and frail he can't stand up and walk around. I get that sometimes it's Martin Freeman inside Bag End as well. I'm not denying that. But there are clear moments where Holm is getting around just fine (look at the medium shot at exactly 12:02 in the EE for example). It's not clear at all that he has problems getting around. What IS clear is that Freeman was undoubtedly used as a double largely in part because Wood and Holm didn't shoot much together (did they even?). I won't lie, I always thought there was something odd about that moment outside Bag End right from the first time it appears in the official trailer. But I never thought "boy, he's moving so fast that couldn't possibly be Ian Holm". I guess maybe that's why I thought it was kind of funny.
(This post was edited by Bishop on Jan 27 2015, 3:23pm)
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aifeme
Rivendell
Jan 27 2015, 3:56pm
Post #25 of 32
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I re-read my previous post and it looks like I was bragging about the observation.
There's a lot of stuff I didn't notice before I read about it in here 
TORn lurker since 2002:]
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