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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Smaug - did he live up to your expectations?
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Skaan
Lorien


Jan 25 2015, 5:12pm

Post #1 of 28 (1339 views)
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Smaug - did he live up to your expectations? Can't Post

Ever since the Hobbit movies were announced, i think it's safe to say that Smaug was one of the most anticipated things people were eager to see. This also means that people generally had high and varying expectations for him. Personally, i think it was mostly a hit with a couple of misses.

Design-wise, i was pleasantly surprised. Even though i still believe a 4-legged dragon would've made for a better and more unique design, i also think the 2-legged design we got now allowed for much more interesting movements and animations from him. The way he moved around inside Erebor with his wingarms simply wouldn't have looked so effective if he had 4 legs instead. And despite the 2 legs, i still think the design itself was great. My biggest complaint is that you couldn't really see his red/black skincolor in the movie. We know from the behind-the-scenes footage that he's actually red/black, but due to the lighting in the movie, it almost always looks like he's light brown instead.

Voice: i had high expectations for this (especially because i loved the voice of the cartoon Smaug) and i can honestly say the voice exceeded my expectations. I was worried his voice was going to sound too much like Cumberbatch's regular voice altered with lots of sound effects, but it actually sounds much more unique than i was expecting. There are a couple of lines where he sounds a bit too computer-y (mostly when he was speaking relatively quiet), but there were also lots of moments where his voice sounded very clean and powerful.

Then you have the actual scenes with him. Smaug's reveal and conversation with Bilbo was excellent IMO. They managed to capture that rising tension feel that the book had, where the tension keeps rising and Bilbo keeps getting more and more uncomfortable. But right when you think the tension is at its highest, you have the chase sequence with Smaug and the dwarves which i think reduced him of his presence and power. His attack on Laketown was also great. He felt like a real threat and danger again. Although i think his actual death scene was a bit too anti-climactic (the lack of music during this scene is probably why i felt this way).

So, did he meet your expectations?


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jan 25 2015, 5:20pm

Post #2 of 28 (779 views)
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A wondrous creation, is Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

He more than lived up to my expectations. I never expected to see such a wondrous creature on the big screen. I love how real he is; his overall design and colour; his voice; his expressions (e.g. staring mesmerised, like a cat who's got the cream) at the golden statue; the way he perches on the rooftops in Lake-town; the way he attacks Lake-town; his dialogue with Bilbo; his fluid movements. I can't imagine how much work went into creating such a marvellous dragon – and how it was actually done.

He is a fantastic creation, and like my sister said, I felt sorry for him when he died, psycho or not.Unimpressed


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jan 25 2015, 5:24pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 5:21pm

Post #3 of 28 (760 views)
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Exceeded them, vastly....... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and they were pretty high. Far as I'm concerned, everything about Smaug is spot on - even the decision to change to four limbs rather than six. I wasn't sure about that before I saw him, but it gives him such expressive hands, which make him much more menacing.

I'm spellbound by every scene in which he appears, and I think his confrontation for Bard is one of the most outstanding sequences in the whole six films.


Old Toby
Grey Havens


Jan 25 2015, 5:42pm

Post #4 of 28 (725 views)
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Loved Smaug! [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug has been my favorite dragon in literature, and I had very high hopes for him. I was not disappointed! I thought his two claws and two legs rather than four legs was both unique and fascinating. It made for some great visuals as he clambered through Erebor and Laketown.

I loved the whole pursuit of the dwarves and how he was so mesmerized by the huge golden statue, and his rising out of the molten gold into the sky, shaking off the gold, was one of my favorite scenes of him. The other favorite is in the very beginning when he's trying to impress Bilbo and displays himself in his full glory saying, "And do you now?"

Having him voiced by Benedict was brilliant. Benedict has such an incredible voice anyways, he was a great choice. Having heard him doing his Smaug in performance capture, I must say even without the enhancement the voice would have been awesome!

I also liked how they showed him preparing to release his fire from his mouth by having his belly glowing first. A nice touch.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


moreorless
Gondor

Jan 25 2015, 5:47pm

Post #5 of 28 (758 views)
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What I liked most was that he didnt become another "action monster" [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure the temptation must have been very strong to turn Smaug into just another scenery chewing CGI monster but I was thankful that even though he was involved in a good deal of action he was still treated as a character.


Remus
Lorien


Jan 25 2015, 6:38pm

Post #6 of 28 (692 views)
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He is the [In reply to] Can't Post

BEST dragon ever created NOT only on MOVIES but Video Games too!

He is so flawless, so beautifully done so it's sad he died because he felt so exotic and only "one of a kind"...

Weta & PJ did an amazing job on him.


CathrineB
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 6:53pm

Post #7 of 28 (663 views)
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Oh yes very much so [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember the very first glimpse we got of him in the trailer when he comes around the column my first reaction was "OOh...eh...his head is kind weird" so I didn't like the design at first, but then when I saw the final result - WOW.

I think he looks glorious. So so so so so so very much bigger than I expected, but I loved it. Comes to show just how Erebor is too be able to have this huge beast inside it.
And as tired I am of Benedict I love his voice. It's deep and strong and brings Smaug to life better than ever. It was really chilling the moment he comes out of the gold for the first time in DoS. Ugh. That was possibly one of my biggest nerdvana moments in these moments Sly


Bishop
Gondor


Jan 25 2015, 7:09pm

Post #8 of 28 (646 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug is pretty much perfect, and I agree with just about all of your thoughts. I will say though that the decision to remove his "arms" at the last minute is disappointing to me.

Mind you this is all about my personal expectations and I'm not claiming that one is necessarily better than the other. I hope that no one will likewise claim that a two legged dragon is obviously better than a four legged one.

With that out of the way, firstly it was disappointing to me because everything in the artwork and design pointed towards it. From Tolkien's own illustrations, to many prominent artists who have depicted Smaug, and indeed to Jackson's own team right up until the final stages, that's always how it seemed Smaug would be designed. It's hard to argue that this was not the expected portrayal given that he actually had arms in AUJ and they had to change it on the EE.

Secondly, I believe a four legged dragon would have been riskier and more unique than almost any other "realistic" dragon we've seen in film, and mostly because he is a cunning, speaking being. Having arms with which to gesture as he spoke might have been amazing, or actually scooping up gold coins and letting them fall as he tells Bilbo that he won't part with a single one. While Jackson raises a great point about his posture becoming more menacing without front arms, it does not seem to me that Smaug is radically different in design from a dragon such as this one from Reign of Fire. I totally understand that Jackson finally went for a more grounded, less fantasy version of the dragon and that's fine. And I'll repeat that IMO the final version of the Dragon is about as amazing as it could ever be.


burrahobbit
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 7:21pm

Post #9 of 28 (672 views)
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Smaug was superbly designed and voiced; the only flaws were in the writing [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug looked incredible, and the whole scene of Bilbo's encounter was spectacular- probably the best achievement of PJ's Hobbit. The way the setting, the horde, the sound, the voice, the dragon's movement all worked so evocatively together.

I like Alan Lee's design for Smaug from the Hobbit book a lot, and he also went for the 2 legged design. Lee's design is, like Tolkien's original, a bit more serpentine, but the more beefy film design looked great.

My only gripes with Smaug would be the extended sequence at the end of the Desolation of Smaug. The chase was on the verge of Tom and Jerry style, and the golden statue riduculous. Smaug defeated an entire dwarven city and army, are we really to believe he wouldn't be able to handle 10 dwarves right in front of his nose? It weakened his character for me, and felt like a forced climax because of the three movie decision. I understand why they did it- they wanted more Smaug, but it just didn't work very well.

The attack on Laketown sequence was initially great, but again ended with some not very great dialogue when he taunts Bard ("you are forsaken"... eh?), and Smaug looking a bit weak.

I would have liked to see more of Laketown army trying to defend themselves, and Smaug reeking move havoc. Maybe eating the master would have been a better ending for him... or perhaps eating Kili and Tauriel would have improved the movie overall :-P


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Jan 25 2015, 8:09pm

Post #10 of 28 (618 views)
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Smaug... [In reply to] Can't Post

...was PERFECT!

Only thing I did not like is what others have already said, when being unable to hunt down a few dwarves he comes of as a bit silly/slow/weak. But besides that; WOW!

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


MechaGodzilla
Rivendell


Jan 25 2015, 8:35pm

Post #11 of 28 (601 views)
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I don't think it's hyperbolic to say he's one of the trilogy's greatest accomplishments [In reply to] Can't Post

An amazing creation, from the CGI which 99.9% of the time is excellent to Benedict Cumberbatch's voice performance which is equally great, and the invaluable touches the sound team put on his voice. The amount of screentime he got over the movies was also just right; long enough to be satisfying but not overpowering. I honestly believe he's the main reason the critics rated Desolation of Smaug higher than the other two films, I think they were so dazzled by him that it made them view the film as a whole in a more favorable light.

What more can I say that hasn't been said already? He truly impressed me. I too would have liked to see a four-legged design simply because it seems to have become an increasingly rare sight over the last two-three decades, and would make him feel even more "otherworldly". But, that aside, the two-legged design they went for was executed perfectly, so no complaints from me. I never thought Dragonslayer's Vermithrax Pejorative would be bested, but amazing as she still is, I think Peter Jackson and his team may just have accomplished that.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 8:55pm

Post #12 of 28 (588 views)
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Exceeded Them [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations to the CGI team compositors et al. My view on how he was scripted are rather well known but his interactions with Bilbo and Bard/Bain carried all the dramatic expectations placed on them .. and then some.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 9:07pm

Post #13 of 28 (565 views)
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More than lived up to [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew Ben's voice would be great. But the design was fabulous and so was the script overall. I absolutely loved Smaug's movements with his head and body. I loved his dialogue with Bilbo and with Bard. Absolutely great. Love it to pieces.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey


brotherbeck
Rivendell

Jan 25 2015, 9:10pm

Post #14 of 28 (564 views)
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Most Definitely [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to say that Smaug definitely lived up to my expectations and more. I was someone who was extremely dissapointed that they decided to change his design after teasing his six-limbed appearance in the first film, mainly because it made him look so powerful when he was stomping around and I really wanted to see the rest of him in that incarnation. Plus, that is the way he is drawn on the map within the film.

All of those thoughts were immediately pushed from my mind however as Smaug is revealed in all his glory. Everything about his appearance and the way he talks and moves is just incredible. My reaction to Smaug is similar to my reaction to the dwarves - I strongly disliked most of their initial designs yet ended up coming to love them in execution. The visual effects used to bring him to life are astounding, especially in BOTFA. He actually seems alive in that movie to the point where I feel a twinge sorry for him as the light goes out in his eyes, even though I just watched him brutally raze Laketown and kill countless people. An incredible creation.

My only criticism is something many have said already, but I really think how they decided to have the climax of DoS play out severely hurt Smaug as a character and made him seem inept and far less frightening than he should have been.


Noria
Gondor

Jan 25 2015, 10:04pm

Post #15 of 28 (552 views)
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Any expectations I had were wildly exceeded and obliterated [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved everything about Smaug and his scenes.

One of the things I liked about him was that he was not all powerful. He was so big that the Dwarves were able to use their knowledge of Erebor to elude and draw him in. They way that they used water against him made me believe for the first time that an organized campaign against him by the united houses of the Dwarves might have a chance of succeeding.

I like the design as well, the way Smaug uses his winged forelimbs to walk and as hands. He looks less like a winged alligator. less dumpy and more fantastic to my mind.

The chase scene in Erebor does go on a little long for my liking and I dislike Thorin standing on Smaug's snout but that is PJ for you.


Greenwood Hobbit
Valinor


Jan 25 2015, 10:22pm

Post #16 of 28 (528 views)
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Defnitely! [In reply to] Can't Post

A magnificent creation, on all levels. Wonderful.


balbo biggins
Rohan


Jan 26 2015, 12:00am

Post #17 of 28 (546 views)
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perfect but not perfect [In reply to] Can't Post

smaug is a brilliant movie dragon, looked wonderful, great voice good animation, and i enjoyed him immensely in the films.

but! this isnt the smaug from the book, and many moments took me further away from that.

1. we never get to see that smaug is a red/ dragon with i think black bits, and also a lighter underside!

2. they missed a trick by not having a sleeping dragon on top of a pile of gold in the complete darkness of erebor glowing by his own light. would have been such frightening scene.

3. didnt have four legs! i know you can explain this away, like anything really, but his design has been set since the books were written and in one fell swoop they thought they knew better than everyone else. a shame.

4.bilbos scene. why the hell did they make bilbo visible, the whole reason he doesnt get eaten from the encounter is becuase he had the ring on, and had an unfamiliar smell. fooling both the dragon and the dwarves in thinking he was a master burglar.

5.smaug is a worm. the design wasnt wormy enough for me, sneaky, cunning tricky, cleverer more than evil. film smaug is more of a out the box dragon, not tolkien enough.

6.the dwarves attack. just wouldnt have happened. smaug is so above any dwarf in his eyes, he just wouldnt bother chasing, he should have laughed at them, really diminished what should be the most cunning clverest creature in middle earth.

7.gold sickness. i still dont think smaugs love of gold meant that if you make a giant gold statue he would be so amazed it would stop him in his tracks. he already 'owned' that gold anyway it was already his.

8. the final arrow. was almost perfect, untill bain got in the way. the bow just wouldbt have had the tensile strength and bard would have sliced his sons head off it it did. i always imagined smaug way up high when he gets shot, crashing down and destroying laketown.

all for now...but you did ask!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jan 26 2015, 1:45am

Post #18 of 28 (509 views)
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WE got a TOUR of ALL Angles of him... [In reply to] Can't Post

Underbelly included....without the,

Total
Time it
TOOK to

Complete the
CLOSE-UPS in the
CHASE..we

Might have
MISSED something
MAJOR...?

NOT!
Crazy

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jan 26 2015, 3:17am

Post #19 of 28 (488 views)
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Plus [In reply to] Can't Post

we
got the
incrediblesisticly

awesomeness of
Mr Cumberbatch

to speak and

and guess at Bilbo's
riddlespeak

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Bombadil
Half-elven


Jan 26 2015, 5:41am

Post #20 of 28 (430 views)
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*snicker*...*snicker* GotThatRight...// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jan 26 2015, 12:35pm

Post #21 of 28 (396 views)
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I suppose technically he lived down to them [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasn't expecting him to have any redeeming features, and he didn't. Apart from the silly bit in DOS, he was as well done as could be hoped for - a fantastic villain in BOTFA. His only fault in the last film was failing to barbecue Tauriel. Apart from that, 10/10.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Nightwing
Bree


Jan 26 2015, 2:14pm

Post #22 of 28 (375 views)
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He was impressive and enjoyable enough [In reply to] Can't Post

But he isn't my Smaug. Visually, John Howe's "Smaug the Golden" comes very close to my ideal Smaug. But I did still enjoy the films' take on the character, minus the fact that he came across as a bit too bungling and inept. And I would have preferred him with four actual legs, and with a stronger golden-red color.

The Silmarillion (film series)
The Flight of the Noldor - Beren and Lúthien - The Children of Húrin - The Sack of Doriath - The Fall of Gondolin - The War of Wrath

Someday.


Eruonen
Half-elven


Jan 26 2015, 2:49pm

Post #23 of 28 (377 views)
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My only quibble, noted during DOS discussions, was that his color [In reply to] Can't Post

was never fully realized on film. After the gold bath, I was expecting a cleaned up, shinier, sparkling exterior that would have dazzled. Instead, his red-gold colors remained muted.


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea


Jan 26 2015, 4:04pm

Post #24 of 28 (354 views)
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Smaug was Magnificent! (guess the tune) [In reply to] Can't Post

My hopes and expectations were met. Great design, great performance. Smaug, in IMAX 3D HFR especially, was a true spectacle.

only two out of four legs: no problem.
muted red hue: All good.

Coolest design feature: the pre-firebreath glow around the neck!

Cons:

It should have been clearer that he was merely toying with the Dwarves during the "chase" like a cat to a mouse. I like to imagine that he was only pretending not to smell them when they passed directly under his belly and deliberately dropped coins on them in passing.

I tend to forgive that though, overall.

After seeing him for the first time in DOS, I was inspired to write the lyrics below. (Guess the tune? For the answer, follow the link below.)

***

SMAUG THE MAGNIFICENT

I can't seem to place you from your smell,
The scent of mischief-- and Dwarves-- I know well,
Well thief, come now, don't be shy,
Approach me, step into the light!

I AM FIRE, I AM DEATH!
Fa fa FA fa fa fa-fa FA fa
Better run run run run run run from my breath!
Oh oh oh
I AM FIRE, I AM DEATH!
Fa fa FA fa fa fa-fa FA fa
Better run run run run run run from my breath!
Oh oh oh oh-h-h-h-h, ai-ya ya ya ooooh!

You start a conversation with Smaug the Magnificent?
You flatter a lot, but you've not seen anything.
"Barrel Rider" you say? Town's fate is sealed!
You want "revenge"? I’ll show you its meaning!

I AM FIRE, I AM DEATH!
Fa fa FA fa fa fa-fa FA fa
Better run run run run run run from my breath!
Oh oh oh
I AM FIRE, I AM DEATH!
Fa fa FA fa fa fa-fa FA fa
Better run run run run run run from my breath!
Oh oh oh oh-h-h-h-h ai-ya ya ya....

Tempted to let you take it!
Tempted to see him suffer!
Oakenshield, with corrupted heart,
Will lose his mind…but I think, not today!
Nay nay nay nay nay nay nay nay nay nay nay nay!!!
Our little game ends at this time!
For A LIAR, Thief, you’ve been quite polite!

I AM FIRE, I AM DEATH!
Fa fa FA fa fa fa-fa FA fa
Better run run run run from my breath!
Oh oh oh
I AM FIRE, I AM DEATH!
Fa fa FA fa fa fa-fa FA fa
Better run run run run from my breath!
Oh oh oh ohhhhh, ai-ya ya ya ooooh!



***
http://youtu.be/yX6FsTIq6ls

***

He was born of mortal frailty mixed with Elven fallen realm,
Comin’ home to a land he’d never been before.
Arvernian behind him, sailed the seas of Middle-earth,
You might say he didn’t know what lay in store.

When his wife came out to find him she'd been turned into a bird,
Upon her breast there shone a shining star,
So he took her to his bosom, and by morn her form returned,
And he shifted West to find the high Valar.

And in Valinor he went before the high,
In doing so, resigned himself to die.
Take up arms against the Shadow, asked he of the high,
of the Valar high. (Fight, fight the Shadow)
of the Valar high. (Fight, fight the Shadow)

* * *
http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien

Jan 26 2015, 6:32pm

Post #25 of 28 (325 views)
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yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

after seeing the movie more than 60 times I can say he was fantastic

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