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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What are 5 things from the trilogy that was jarring for you.
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Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 2:30am

Post #1 of 55 (2164 views)
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What are 5 things from the trilogy that was jarring for you. Can't Post

I felt that the trilogy was best when they used practical locations and used minimal dialogue of their own and used lines from Tolkien.Overall i really loved trilogy despite a few flaws.Ricvhards Armitage was sublime as Thorin especially the third movie.So what was 5 things that were jarring for you,?

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(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Jan 25 2015, 2:31am)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jan 25 2015, 2:41am

Post #2 of 55 (1433 views)
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Mostly additions of PJ... [In reply to] Can't Post

There are really two things that I find extremely jarring, to the point that I can't enjoy the films as much as I want to (and believe me, I really wanted to love these films), and those are the inclusion of Azog as the main villain of the trilogy, and the Tauriel/Kili romance. If it were not for these two PJisms, I'd have enjoyed these films much much more than I did.

If I had to pick three other things though, I'd pick Galadriel's antics in Dol Guldur, the decision to use CGI Orcs, and the over-prominence of Legolas.


Beorn's Bees
Lorien


Jan 25 2015, 3:17am

Post #3 of 55 (1333 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Azog being alive
2. Everything about Goblin Town
3. Tauriel and Kili
4. Legolas in general
5. Lack of focus on Bilbo


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 25 2015, 3:39am

Post #4 of 55 (1322 views)
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Not in order... [In reply to] Can't Post

But the times I look forward to and was caught by the first time 'round:

1. Riddles in the Dark.
2. Smaug and Bilbo.
==These two were so well-paced with the text, imho.

3. Galadriel's entrance and power-play at Dol Guldur
4. Bain and Bard on the tower facing Smaug
5. The Dwarves/Bilbo battling Smaug.

But I really do have a 6th one. Bag End. Bilbo at Bag End. I'm always totally in love with anything to do with that place... and getting to see so much of it in these films makes me so happy :) Especially Bilbo padding about in his bathrobe. Love it so much, I made a copy/costume of it.




Hobbit: BotFA Geeky Observations List draft #4


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014



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"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



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Shirriff Anthony
Bree


Jan 25 2015, 6:35am

Post #5 of 55 (1245 views)
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In no order [In reply to] Can't Post

The loss of the a hobbit perspective on the world.
The love triangle.
That a fili and Kili did not die defending there uncle. This point includes the entire layout and progress of the actual battle.
Galadriel at Dol Guldor
The numerous disjointed plot threads haphazardly strung together by excessive CGI.

Faramir: “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 25 2015, 9:57am

Post #6 of 55 (1185 views)
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Here are mine [In reply to] Can't Post

in no particular order:

1. The "who should be the main Orc antagonist?" Azog-Bolg-Yazneg fiasco - sticking to the book would have been less confusing.
2. The beefed up cameo of Legolas - particularly his stunts and his pointless gallivanting journey to Gundabad just so we could learn about his Mother. Why this got priority over concluding all the plot threads at the end of BO5A I will never know.
3. Dain - awful characterisation. One minute he is CGI the next he isn't. Plus the headbutting. If only battles were that easy ...
4. Alfrid (and the Master) - I'm embarrassed and ashamed by Alfrid. Yes, let's see Alfrid dressed as a lady instead of seeing Thorin's funeral.
5. The Ogres, kamikaze trolls and the were-worms - all three were just unnecessary.

If I could have just add one more, I would include:

6. Barrels out of Bond

This list is reassuring for me. These are the 6 major gripes that frustrate me about the movies (and almost completed limited to BO5A). If I were to compile a list of the things from the trilogy that I loved, it would be much, much longer.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jan 25 2015, 10:00am)


Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree


Jan 25 2015, 11:06am

Post #7 of 55 (1120 views)
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Let's do this ... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Three Movie Split (childrens book story feels bloated, forced epicness)

2. Too much CGI (Orcs in general)

3. Irritating Color Grading (DOS example: Erebor Gold looks in the distance like a pile of potato chips)

4. Too much LOTR stuff (Frodo, Legolas, Morgul Blade, Witch King)

5. Potential highlights of the book were abandoned (Beorn VS Bolg)

My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 11:35am

Post #8 of 55 (1146 views)
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Taking 'jarring' to mean something that takes me out of the film.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. or would if I let it, I can only think of two:

The occasional moments when a character says something which feels far too contemporary and off-the-street to fit comfortably into the story.

An orc to the left of picture during Azog's scene on Waethertop, who is standing so awkwardly that he's obviously just a chap in prosthetics who isn't quite sure what he's doing. I know he's there now, so I don't look!


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jan 25 2015, 12:08pm

Post #9 of 55 (1100 views)
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Really only [In reply to] Can't Post

1. The grossness, which I found inappropriate in most cases. In fact, the only time it did work for me was during the Troll scene in AUJ, because of the types of creature Trolls are.

2. Legolas's zombie looks in DoS, and in the first shot of him in BoFA. His entire characterisation (evil) in DoS, and his activity in the barrel scene, which I would have loved otherwise, but his actions took me right out of the film, as they did during the Laketown scene.

3. The focus on Legolas and Tauriel in DoS (and their marketing before the film). I feel they took away from the main characters that should have been in the film. In BoFA they were away from the main part of the action until the end, so did not affect the film as much for me in this way.

4. The lack of Beorn.

5. The lack of resolution at the end of BoFA – so Thorin's funeral, Thranduil/gems, Beorn (a stopover at his wonderful place by Bilbo/Gandalf could have been fantastic), Arkenstone, Beorn and Dwarves.

I think these were the main things. Otherwise films 3 and 1 were amazing (in a good way) as far as I'm concerned. As you say, Richard Armitage was sublime, and I especially loved his scenes with Bilbo.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jan 25 2015, 12:20pm

Post #10 of 55 (1095 views)
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so many to narrow down! [In reply to] Can't Post

sorting through the minor niggles and stuff that takes you out of the movie, I'll try to sort it into 5 encompassing points...

1. Agreed with Dan, the "Azog-Bolg-Yazneg fiasco - sticking to the book would have been less confusing." 1 major Orc baddie plus Smaug and Sauron would have been plenty...but of course we now know that Bolg was necessary for Legolas so that ties into Dan's point #2





Quote

2. The beefed up cameo of Legolas - particularly his stunts and his pointless gallivanting journey to Gundabad just so we could learn about his Mother. Why this got priority over concluding all the plot threads at the end of BO5A I will never know.





2. The split into 3 movies forced a more tightly-knit 2 film script to become bloated and meandering with too many side plots left inconclusive. I know folks say "oh, but I wouldn't want 2 movies any more because too much would have to be cut out" but in reality, if we'd not had the 3 movie treatment to judge then we'd quite possibly be ecstatic with a two movie version.

3. The conflict of tone - as Legolas Shoehorn said, the fairytale-like children's story has been distorted with forced epicness and gross juvenile humour. Add to this the blatant in-your-face nods and tie-ins to LotR that treat the audience as idiots instead of letting them come to an understanding themselves.

4. The requisite inserted romance - not satisfied with that, they upped the ante and forced a cross-species "forbidden" love that undermines a major theme of the first trilogy, and which, despite 2 films to develop this relationship in, comes over as less than believable.

5. The choice to film in 3D and HFR which negated use of previous techniques for scale, bigatures, etc., and increased reliance on CGI. If the future of cinema is movies created almost entirely on a computer, I think it's pretty sad. Unsure




"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Jan 25 2015, 12:32pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 1:58pm

Post #11 of 55 (1055 views)
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For actual 'jarring' versus other niggles, I agree with 2 points on your list [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


2. The beefed up cameo of Legolas - particularly his stunts and his pointless gallivanting journey to Gundabad just so we could learn about his Mother. Why this got priority over concluding all the plot threads at the end of BO5A I will never know.

In general I was very, very happy to see Legolas in TH. I don't mind his stunts so much, I just file it under 'Firstborn' fun... but I will say that trip with the recycled 'bred for war' line and the forced nature if the scene made me feel very 'studio'. So that did jar me out of the ME world a bit.


4. Alfrid (and the Master) - I'm embarrassed and ashamed by Alfrid. Yes, let's see Alfrid dressed as a lady instead of seeing Thorin's funeral.
What Ryan Gage did as Alfrid was great - but yes, overuse became an issue. The lakeshore scene is just fantastic, and provides character for Bard, the people of Laketown and Alfrid. But the overuse after that did jar me, especially the 'slip showing' bit. *One* shot of him on drag - where that brave Laketown woman calls him out, and thus serves as a character foil - would have been plenty I think, and thus very effective. Past that it becomes parody I fear, and felt too 'modern humor' (as Dormouse said modernity could be jarring, and I totally agree. On that note, the Gimli 'nervous-system' line ALWAYS makes me squirm with irritation, for the same reason).

This list is reassuring for me. These are the 6 major gripes that frustrate me about the movies (and almost completed limited to BO5A). If I were to compile a list of the things from the trilogy that I loved, it would be much, much longer.


Its true. My 'love' list is still far longer.Heart So we can have issues but still love the films.









Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 25 2015, 2:13pm

Post #12 of 55 (1056 views)
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What about Galadriel? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Galadriel at Dol Guldor.



Surely not simply the fact that she was at Dol Guldur. If you are familiar with LotR then you must have been anticipating that. I guess that your surprise was with the way she was used in Mirkwood.

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"Godzilla is totally accepting of all people and faiths. For it is written that liberal or conservative, Christian or Muslim or Jew, straight or gay, all people sound pretty much the identical as they are crushed beneath his mighty feet."
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Name
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 3:10pm

Post #13 of 55 (996 views)
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Here's mine [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Excessive CGI, lack of prosthetic/real locations
2. Not enough Bilbo
3. K&T romance (and Legolas)
4. Lack of Beorn
5. Rushed film making, which resulted in sloppy execution and last minute changes (the whole Azog/Bolg deal, large changes to the original book)

And I'll throw a #6 in as well: a weak script (especially when compared to LotR)

Still love the movies though
Wink

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Gianna
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 3:17pm

Post #14 of 55 (1024 views)
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1 = most jarring, 5 = least jarring [In reply to] Can't Post

5. Azog and Bolg appearing all over the place
4. Bilbo taking off the Ring when he was talking to Smaug, and STILL not getting roasted to a cinder... Crazy
3. Alfrid humour and other stuff of that sort
2. Tauriel/Kili
1. Galadriel going "nuclear" in Dol Guldur

~There's some good left in this world. And it's worth fighting for.~


carson_le_great
Registered User

Jan 25 2015, 3:37pm

Post #15 of 55 (962 views)
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reply [In reply to] Can't Post

assuming the EE will solve Beorn and battle conclusions. 1=worst 5=least worst

1. Smaug's stupidity, or rather his arrogance/ego. He had plenty of chances to kill the Dwarves and Bard yet he just talked and talked and slowly walked toward bard and jumped toward the dwarves without using his fire. Its one thing to have an ego and enjoying teasing but he took way to far making him look downright stupid. His death in Laketown is so dissapointing, i was hoping it be an amazing accomplishment that no one ever thought possible but instead Smaug just gave Bard all the time in the world while moving in a straight line, why did Smaug suddenly not acknowledge his weak spot?
2. Tauriel + Kili Romance. Although i did like the idea of having an elf oppose Thranduil's passive ways, but it didn't have to be about love just having a general concern for others would have been better.
3. Bolg and Orcs attacking Laketown and the humans doing nothing about it. i mean i know it isn't the best run place but how the hell do Orcs jump walk in undetected walk all over town looking and than attack its children without any human interference. Humans should have saved the Dwarves and Kids and Legolas should have showed up with Tauriel at Laketown.
4. Radaghast Bird poop, smoke out of ears, insects on tongue, birds in hat, rabbit sleighs, all around he was just a pathetic goofy character. Waste of someone so powerful and influential.
5. Cartoon looking dwarf designs. Half of them looked like cartoon characters, and kili doesn't even have a beard. Don't know why they all had to look that different, theres not much difference between Aragorn, Boromir, Eomer, and Farimir (all have goatees with long hair).


(This post was edited by carson_le_great on Jan 25 2015, 3:49pm)


Shirriff Anthony
Bree


Jan 25 2015, 4:12pm

Post #16 of 55 (961 views)
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Certainly not [In reply to] Can't Post

My complaints about the Dol Guldor scene are numerous but the mere presence of Galadriel is not one. My complaint is about "nuclear" Galadriel. Her actions at Dol Guldor stem from a poor reading of the text. In FOTR we see an interpreation of what Galadriel would be like if she were to seize the ring from Frodo and challenge Sauron for dominion of ME. PJ or PB would have the audience believe that every time Celeborn leaves the toliet seat up he comes home to the tree house to the screaming wet banshee. The the texts say it was by the devices of Sarumon that the necromancer was driven out. Not only it probably being Lee's last role, but an excellent bridge to Sarumon in FOTR when he studies explosives and the selective breeding of Orcs.

In Reply To

In Reply To
Galadriel at Dol Guldor.



Surely not simply the fact that she was at Dol Guldur. If you are familiar with LotR then you must have been anticipating that. I guess that your surprise was with the way she was used in Mirkwood.


Faramir: “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 4:14pm

Post #17 of 55 (944 views)
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Mine [In reply to] Can't Post

1) The potty humor in AUJ
2) The Forges scenes in DoS
3) Tauriel/Kili healing scene in DoS

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey


Bishop
Gondor


Jan 25 2015, 4:16pm

Post #18 of 55 (938 views)
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I really agree with everyone's list [In reply to] Can't Post

This though

Quote
If the future of cinema is movies created almost entirely on a computer, I think it's pretty sad.


I totally understand your fear, but I don't think we have to worry about this future. There are simply too many excellent directors who understand that the VFX don't mean everything and that they are but one tool in a massive set. On one extreme, you have something like Gravity which is abundance of CGI, but it's a fascinating entry in film technology. Then there's something like Paddington, whose main character is 100% CGI; like Gollum in AUJ, he is at once an impossibly realistic living and breathing being. IMO it's also one of the most charming and heart warming children's films to come out in a long long time, and whoever made the trailers for it should be fired! Neil Blompkamp's District 9 was an original science fiction film that relied heavily on CGI, and it was nominated for best picture (almost as unheard of as a fantasy film being nominated for BP :). And finally you have someone like JJ Abrams, who, love or hate him, has been extremely vocal in his intent to minimize CGI and use real locations, models, and practical effects as priority in his new Star Wars film.



Annael
Immortal


Jan 25 2015, 4:44pm

Post #19 of 55 (946 views)
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close to my list [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Azog, Bolg, & super-orcs (didn't Saruman invent them 60 years later?)
2. The Goblin King & Goblin Town
3. Lack of focus on Bilbo
4. Radagast's rabbits
5. Alfrid

While the Kili/Tauriel romance was silly, I didn't mind having another female character added to the movies. (And am glad that we got to see Galadriel, although I'm baffled as to how an Elf, even a Ring-bearing one, can be more powerful than Ring-bearing Maia Gandalf.)

Since evidence can be adduced and interpreted to corroborate a virtually limitless array of world views, the human challenge is to engage that world view or set of perspectives which brings forth the most valuable, life-enhancing consequences.

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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on Jan 25 2015, 4:46pm)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jan 25 2015, 4:44pm

Post #20 of 55 (934 views)
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Off the top of my head... [In reply to] Can't Post

 - The sophomoric humor (such as Bombur breaking a table; Ori burping; the trollshaw humor, Legolas stepping on the heads of the dwarves).

- The constant references to Lord of the Rings (such as the Nazgul music, use of Weathertop set, the moth, and the repeated lines of dialogue and visuals).

- The unnecessarily long scenes (such as the Radagast bunny sled diversion, stone giants, Goblin-town escape, into the fire cliffhanger scene, barrel escape, dwarven battle against Smaug).

- All of the changes to the Azog/Bolg/Thror/Thrain/Thorin storyline.

- The fundamental change to Bilbo's character transition (such as - Bilbo should have decided to go more grudgingly and with more prodding from Gandalf, and shouldn't have rescued Thorin from Azog at the cliffhanger scene).


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 5:24pm

Post #21 of 55 (908 views)
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I don't think I was "jarred" by anything. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping for excitement, engagement and emotion so jarring, which I would more associate with being rudely awakened from a snooze or some-such, doesn't seem to me to be quite the right fit.


Gwytha
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 6:35pm

Post #22 of 55 (920 views)
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Fingernails scraping the blackboard jarring [In reply to] Can't Post

1-"Why does it hurt so much?"
2-Gandalf's advising Bilbo that true courage was sometimes about knowing when not to strike. It was about pity, not courage, and it gave Gandalf too much credit for Bilbo's choice.
3-Gandalf's helplessness in Dol Guldur
4-Bard's trust of Alfrid
5-Legolas looking older and acting stern and humorless.

I may be persuaded later in the direcotors' commentary that some of these changes were unavoidable due to the nature of film versus novel, or because they lacked time to do it better, but that's how it felt to me as a first time viewer.

All that said, I love the films and will watch them all many more times.

Growth after all is not so much a matter of change as of ripening, and what alters most is the degree of clarity with which we see one another. -Edith Pargeter


annthanatos
Registered User

Jan 25 2015, 7:23pm

Post #23 of 55 (885 views)
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Mine [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Tauriel and Kili. i sill can't believe they are in 'love'
2. Beorn. Appear only several seconds in BOFA as an very important character.
3. The elven armies. They just disappeared in the middle of the battle.
4. Legolas. His long fighting scene. I wish to see mor of the dwarves defending their king.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 7:40pm

Post #24 of 55 (876 views)
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the big and inacceptable lack of... [In reply to] Can't Post

1.B
2.E
3.O
4.R
5.N

...nuff' said.


FernysApple
Bree

Jan 25 2015, 8:15pm

Post #25 of 55 (866 views)
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only 5? [In reply to] Can't Post

well I suppose,
1. It not being The Hobbit but spurious fanfiction.
2. Bloated and confusing subplots.
3. Making LOTR look bad by including reference to it every 5 minutes.
4. Bad dialogue, cheap humour, cartoon cgi.
5. Galadriel looking like Azogs mum.

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