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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Mysterious Case of the Disappearing Dwarf
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Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 12:51am

Post #1 of 81 (2364 views)
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The Mysterious Case of the Disappearing Dwarf Can't Post

I've seen BOTFA quite a few times now (actually, I've lost count). I know the story has to end the way it does (i.e., Thorin has to die), but every time we get up to Ravenhill with the Dwarves, the part of me that believes in miracles holds out hope. After Fili is executed, Thorin moans "Kili!" and charges off, presumably trying to save Kili from a similar fate. Dwalin cries "Thorin!" and charges after Thorin, presumably deeply concerned about Thorin's fate. But then...what happened to Dwalin? We see him show up to defend Bilbo briefly, but then Bolg knocks Bilbo out, and apparently Dwalin isn't involved with Bilbo after that. That appears to leave a fair bit of time between then and when Azog delivers the fatal stab to Thorin. But what in Middle-earth did Dwalin get up to during that time? His place has always been at Thorin's side, as Thorin's fiercest warrior, staunchest friend, and most loyal bodyguard. How could he pick such an inopportune time to go AWOL? As Thorin faces off with Azog on the ice, I keep pleading "Dwalin! Where are you?!? Thorin needs you NOW!" So far it hasn't worked. But I still can't get over feeling that Dwalin should have been right there with Thorin, and would have saved him, and Thorin would have lived happily ever after.
So, does anyone have any UUTs* regarding Dwalin's AWOL-ness? Or even partially-supported theories? I'd love to have some shred of comfort that Dwalin was actually doing everything he could to try to get to Thorin, but for some reason didn't quite make it in time.


* UUT = "Utterly Unsupported Theory"


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 12:57am

Post #2 of 81 (1437 views)
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Good question! [In reply to] Can't Post

Whatever it is, it must be either debilitating or overwhelming. I can't see him not being by Thorin for any other reason. But since he is standing in the scene on the ice when they all gather, it must have been something that just took him away and KEPT him away, versus injury.


They said there were about 100 Goblin mercenaries: is being surrounded by the mass of them enough? Maybe they got between him and Thorin (by chance or by design)? Just a very wild guess (its not even a decent UUT).


I hope I see it again to formulate a better answer.








Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 2:12am

Post #3 of 81 (1415 views)
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It appears that [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin and Dwalin have dispatched all of the goblin mercenaries (almost with a yawn, since there's "only" 100!) by the time Fili's executed -- right? Since just before Azog appears dragging Fili, Thorin's trying to send Dwalin to recall the boys, and there's no mercenaries to be seen. Maybe there was a second wave of mercenaries that materialized conveniently, after Bilbo was knocked out? Maybe Dwalin snuck off for a much-needed potty break (after all the tea he'd been drinking in Erebor, you know, trying to stay awake to keep up with Thorin...)? Maybe he decided right then was the time to go find Thranduil and once and for all tell Thranduil what *he* thought of him (he was feeling left out, since Thorin had already had a chance at this)? Dunno.
I hope you get to see it again too, this Friday, with a TORnsibbie in tow. Smile


Merovech
Bree

Jan 25 2015, 2:27am

Post #4 of 81 (1325 views)
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It's a bit of a plothole. [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm afraid that's all there is to it. There's no reasonable explanation, I think.


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 2:27am

Post #5 of 81 (1312 views)
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Potty vs non-potty rationales [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thorin and Dwalin have dispatched all of the goblin mercenaries (almost with a yawn, since there's "only" 100!) by the time Fili's executed -- right? Since just before Azog appears dragging Fili, Thorin's trying to send Dwalin to recall the boys, and there's no mercenaries to be seen.

Well...umm...probably. Since you are positively kicking my behind in number of views, I'm not that clear on this part!!!! Laugh



Maybe there was a second wave of mercenaries that materialized conveniently, after Bilbo was knocked out? Maybe Dwalin snuck off for a much-needed potty break (after all the tea he'd been drinking in Erebor, you know, trying to stay awake to keep up with Thorin...)? Maybe he decided right then was the time to go find Thranduil and once and for all tell Thranduil what *he* thought of him (he was feeling left out, since Thorin had already had a chance at this)? Dunno.

Maybe more...that's a heck of a potty break, unless Dwalin has some medical issue we don't know about, and hopefully never do (please PLEASE not THAT in the EE!) I hope we get a good reason, or it feels too much like plot convenience. Considering the painstaking creation of that relationship, it seems like we ('we' as in TORn Type People, not obsessed, just very concerned and detail oriented. That's all. NOT obsessed in the LEAST) need a reason for his absence. Of course, I guess for the TE its not *as* big a deal... but its one of those things I'd rather have seen at least a glance of.



I hope you get to see it again too, this Friday, with a TORnsibbie in tow. Smile Indeed, may I interject a tasteful !!!!!!!!!!!SQUEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! CoolCoolCool








Bishop
Gondor


Jan 25 2015, 2:31am

Post #6 of 81 (1343 views)
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Only the EE knows..... [In reply to] Can't Post

about soooooo many things.


Miss-Merriweather
Bree

Jan 25 2015, 2:47am

Post #7 of 81 (1328 views)
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Bad reputation.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I too have been wondering what kept Dwalin from backing up Thorin on Ravenhill. He just drops out of the action.
You'd think that whenever Dwalin is fighting somewhere in the vicinity it doesn't go unnoticed, but no...

And I was quite surprised later on to see that he was still alive and in one piece.
You'd think - you'd definitely believe - that he would have died of shame for having survived his king and both princes in battle...!
Unsure


Avandel
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 3:05am

Post #8 of 81 (1319 views)
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Very good point [In reply to] Can't Post

So, OK, I am gonna guess - there's been wave after wave of orcs coming for Thorin, and yet Azog is suddenly there by his lonesome - so Azog is going to take down this one dwarf who just won't die, and sends his minions to deal with any of Thorin's companions, and so Dwalin has his hands full, single handedly taking down orc, after orc, not even being sure where Thorin is, wanting to find him....Frown

Personally more annoyed with Gandalf, again, because it's all well and good that Thorin is going to "cut the head off the snake" but Gandalf shows up to have a smoke - and meanwhile who knows what Thranduil is up to (and I do believe Thranduil would have killed Azog, if he had come upon the scene, just because of HONOR).

So my heart breaks for Dwalin.

(Now I am going back to swim in the RIVER of DENIAL Cool where BOFA has a celebratory ending and the only sad thing is that Bilbo does return to the Shire, and seeing Thorin and Bilbo having this kind of happy/sad separation makes me cry, but it's only temporary, as the entire Company will visit Bilbo in the summer in time to see Bilbo's acorn sprout in the garden.)


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 3:32am

Post #9 of 81 (1260 views)
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Its a nice river. A quiet river. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

(Now I am going back to swim in the RIVER of DENIAL Cool )


Kim informs me there are floaty chairs. And drinks too, with little umbrellas.
I'm in.

(I'll grab a drink and a floaty for Ro too, while I'm at it.)








(This post was edited by Brethil on Jan 25 2015, 3:34am)


Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 3:47am

Post #10 of 81 (1245 views)
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Right. [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf's headed up to Ravenhill for a smoke; Dwalin's apparently off tending to his tattoos, or something; Thranduil's about to get the emotional equivalent of an enema; while dear majestic Thorin is locked in a duel-to-the-death with his archenemy. WHERE IS HIS BACKUP? Outrageous, really.

*SPLASH*

There, that's me joining you in the River of Denial. Dwalin found his rightful place by his king, they both slew Azog, Bilbo's off to the Shire to dwarfproof his house against the Company's upcoming summer visit, and all live happily ever after. And Thorin lives out his natural long life, majestic hair creating wafty breezes wherever he goes. The End. Hand me a Mai Tai, will ya? I'm enjoying this river. Cool


(This post was edited by Roheryn on Jan 25 2015, 3:51am)


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 4:23am

Post #11 of 81 (1216 views)
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not sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Where Dwain got sidetracked but everytime I see the movie I wonder if he felt such guilt at not being able to save Thorin. It must have been crushing to him.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey


Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 5:23am

Post #12 of 81 (1182 views)
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I'd have to [In reply to] Can't Post

agree with that. It seems like he's spent his whole life at Thorin's side, and then he missed being there when Thorin needed him most. I can only imagine how awful he must feel. I know we're going to get more aftermath in the EE; I wonder if they'll show Dwalin having such feelings? A quiet little talk between him and Balin, giving each other a sort-of-hug like they did after the Battle of Azanulbizar? Both in tears? I can hope.


Avandel
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 6:19am

Post #13 of 81 (1175 views)
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ROFLMAO! [In reply to] Can't Post

*Wipes eyes*LaughLaughLaugh

And yah know, a nice pool boy who looks remarkably like Fili just brought me a long island ice tea. Later we can head for the boardwalk and get our own dwarf tats. Cool


Kim
Valinor


Jan 25 2015, 6:42am

Post #14 of 81 (1168 views)
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Floaty chairs for all [In reply to] Can't Post

Just whipped up a batch of strawberry daiquiris and Ro's Mai Tai. Bar's open! Float on up and join in the celebration of the Mountain King's victory and toast to his long life and luxurious locks wafting in the breeze.



#OneLastTime


Brandybuckled
Lorien


Jan 25 2015, 7:53am

Post #15 of 81 (1183 views)
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Dwalin saw Alfrid sneaking away in the dress... [In reply to] Can't Post

an mistook him for a fair dwarf lass.

He sped down Ravenhill to rescue her, only to realize his error. By the time he'd returned to Thorin, it was too late.

NAArP: Not An Ardent purist since Arda was dented



Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2015, 9:35am

Post #16 of 81 (1112 views)
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Ooooh, do share. [In reply to] Can't Post

Or is there a pool boy for each of us? Cool


I know what my tat's going to say: "THORIN LIVES!"


You know, with Thorin standing next to us, we don't even need a pool boy fanning us, since Thorin's hair makes breezes all by itself. If he ever gets a haircut, I wonder if the cut-off hair still makes breezes, or if it has to be attached to his head?


BlackFox
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 9:44am

Post #17 of 81 (1093 views)
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Hehehe! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Ilmatar
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 11:47am

Post #18 of 81 (1061 views)
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one daiquiri, please [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll just take a dive first. It's so nice and warm here, and such good Company! Cool


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 12:52pm

Post #19 of 81 (1041 views)
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Slavish breeze [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

You know, with Thorin standing next to us, we don't even need a pool boy fanning us, since Thorin's hair makes breezes all by itself. If he ever gets a haircut, I wonder if the cut-off hair still makes breezes, or if it has to be attached to his head?


Another great question. I think the breeze is slave to Thorin himself. Once a lock is shorn from his head, it merely falls, lifeless. Like Rapunzel, you know, in Tangled. We shall have to invent some involved, complicated and far-fetchededly absurd sort of mythos to explain that. Shouldn't be too hard, what with all the drinks about.

Maybe we ask Lindir to hang out, and have some pool-boy time with us...?










grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 25 2015, 1:49pm

Post #20 of 81 (1087 views)
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I know... right? But my UUT is... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there's a big chunk missing where Thorin meets up with multiple Orcs and is heavy into fighting when Dwalin catches up and they beat that group. Then... because of Thorin's care and concern for Bilbo, who he knows has been left alone, he tells Dwalin..."Go to Bilbo! Keep him safe!!"

Dwalin looks intensely at Thorin not wanting to leave, but still obedient to his King's/Friend's earnest will and understanding Thorin's need to overcome what "peril" he personally put on his Burglar... Dwalin nods and goes... which is why he suddenly appears just as Bilbo is nearly flattened by the new group of charging Orcs. I don't think at that moment when he leaves Thorin that they were in the middle of a fight, so Dwalin wouldn't know what was to come... even though deep down he probably did.

It also could be another reason why Thorin, as he lay dying, is so frantically relieved to see Bilbo at his side. He was so afraid his friend had been killed... and that it would have been his (Thorin's) fault. For me, it gives their final moments together much more meaning... if that's possible.


Anyway... after returning to Bilbo, Dwalin fights alongside him. But when the hobbit is knocked out, Dwalin is still deep in battle with that hoard of Orcs that never stopped coming at him. As we saw with everyone else fighting up there... they didn't stay in one place for very long. Dwalin is forced back and back... falling off ledges or down steps only to get up and continue fighting. Then I like to think that Gandalf had sent some of the remaining Dwarves up to Ravenhill where they joined in the battle to help save an exhausted, overwhelmed Dwalin, who had to be so fearful of what happened to Thorin and the fallen/killed Bilbo. I can't imagine that the Dwarves wouldn't do their best to follow Thorin... which places them all there with Gandalf... who moves to help the completely withdrawn and traumatized Bilbo sitting off alone in his shock and grief. He was already staggering and stunned at seeing Fili and Kili killed; but Thorin's death broke him.




Hobbit: BotFA Geeky Observations List draft #4


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Brethil
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 2:13pm

Post #21 of 81 (1030 views)
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By Jove Gramma, I think you've got it [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds absolutely credible, from start to finish! And in character for the Thorin who reclaimed himself: to go into harm alone to have Bilbo protected.


Also gets all the Dwarves to the ice scene, but too late.


Awesome.








dormouse
Half-elven


Jan 25 2015, 2:19pm

Post #22 of 81 (1018 views)
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Ooh - I like your UUT [In reply to] Can't Post

And will cheerfully adopt it! I just assumed to Dwalin had become seperated from Thorin in the fighting and was under too much pressure himself to be able to get back. But your version is more satisfying.


CathrineB
Rohan


Jan 25 2015, 3:27pm

Post #23 of 81 (1006 views)
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One of my... [In reply to] Can't Post

That was one of my many issues with the final 30-ish minutes of the movie. Where the heck did he go? It was just plain stupid. Why bring Dwalin up there anyway when you're just going to have him vanish in thin air?
So I'm assuming something is cut.. Everything is just "SO" conventient for the dwarves to die the weird way they did Crazy

The movie's general problem too being that the dwarves are just almost completely ignored overall. We don't see the company fighting more than just after the charge and then the four just charges off and that's it.


(This post was edited by CathrineB on Jan 25 2015, 3:28pm)


Axeman21
The Shire

Jan 25 2015, 4:01pm

Post #24 of 81 (1004 views)
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Dwalin AWOL [In reply to] Can't Post

He went to the pub as it was such an awful film


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Jan 25 2015, 4:03pm

Post #25 of 81 (995 views)
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Tons of orcs [In reply to] Can't Post

I've only seen it once so please feel free to correct me, the last time we see Dwalin is on Ravenhill where he briefly saves Bilbo from some orcs and then Bolg knocks Bilbo out in the passing. Since Bolg shows up with these orcs I think it's safe to assume this is the advance party of the 5th army who aren't far behind. Dwalin would have been up to his arm pitts in Gundabad Orcs and unable to reach Thorin.

I actually briefly thought Dwalin had a chance of being killed of here, eventually becoming overwhelmed. I wonder if the rest of Thorin's company/Iron Hills were meant to arrive and help him? We know all of Thorin's company all eventually reach Ravenhill.

Yes, my username is terrible.

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