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Drakblod
Rivendell
Jan 22 2015, 8:21am
Post #26 of 65
(536 views)
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That people who defend The Hobbit haven't read the book. Because you'd have to be quite daft to see that The Hobbit is a very poor adaptation.
like butter scraped over too much bread.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jan 22 2015, 8:23am
Post #27 of 65
(523 views)
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That people who defend The Hobbit haven't read the book. Because you'd have to be quite daft to see that The Hobbit is a very poor adaptation.
I don't even know where to begin with that comment. Prepare for a lot of reponses to that ...
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 8:25am
Post #28 of 65
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And I do not even like BotFA very much.
It is also a bit annoying that you have to express yourself in such an aggravating style all the time... it makes it harder for those of us who want to express our criticism more balanced and in rational discussions.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jan 22 2015, 8:29am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 22 2015, 8:57am
Post #29 of 65
(500 views)
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It maybe an internet concensus of sorts....
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..but I don't think it's a general concensus. That's certainly not the prevailing opinion among the published, professional film critics whose reviews I've seen; the film is getting a lot of five and four star reviews. Remember that a lot of the people who post about things online are not actually 'critics' in that sense, they're just people who like trying to destroy things others enjoy.
The real test is the box office and that's where the film is doing really well. I'd say the rest is just noise.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jan 22 2015, 9:24am
Post #30 of 65
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As suggesting that those who consider adaptation as a game of spot the difference haven't studied literature at any higher educational level.
But I don't think the forum is the place for such silliness.
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 12:24pm
Post #31 of 65
(468 views)
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What makes BOFA inferior to DOS/AUJ?
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I think BOFA is a hundred times better movie than DOS.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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EomundDaughter
Lorien
Jan 22 2015, 12:59pm
Post #32 of 65
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If PJ came forward and said that he is planning more Tolkien films many would give a positive review....now...since it is seem as the very last film ever it is going to be the brunt of fans frustration.....like PJ broke up with fans !!
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 1:07pm
Post #33 of 65
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I had hoped that many things I found to be a bit unfocused in the first two (Azog/Bolg, DG storyline, Thrain storyline, etc.) would lead somewhere meaningful and satisfying with this last one.
That is why I always say that I do not just think BotFA on its own isn't a very good movie but that it also brings down the first two to some extent, imho clearly showing that they never structured the story well enough for a three movie adaptation.
The issues that escalated with this last chapter have been there before, though.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 1:28pm
Post #34 of 65
(448 views)
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John Rateliff's publishers will need to be told!
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Imagine their surprise when they learn that the author of The History of The Hobbit and probably the greatest authority on the book this side of Christopher Tolkien, actually hasn't read it!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Elessar
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 2:17pm
Post #36 of 65
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1. FOTR
2. ROTK
3. TTT
4. AUJ
5. BOTFA
6. DOS
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:35pm
Post #37 of 65
(396 views)
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BoFA is my favourite of the Hobbit films – I find it wonderfully moving and beautiful.
What some people simply find (or say they find, because I think that post above is designed to aggravate others) unacceptable is that the Hobbit films are an ADAPTATION. For me, they are completely different from the simple but pretty story that Tolkien wrote – though they contain obvious references to that story. What PJ has done with them is a marvel to me – though I may not agree with some of his decisions.
Anyway, it is obvious that millions of people like them, as I can see from the rapt attention given to BoFA when I go and see it in the cinema.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jan 22 2015, 3:38pm)
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Elessar
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:39pm
Post #38 of 65
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AUJ is still my favorite of this group but I agree with your post.
I will say my "wow" is also partly how someone who usually is so leveled wrote that in a way (IMO) that it reads as fact. I don't want anyone to post back at me I shouldn't have to write it a certain way and every post is my opinion. There are ways to say I feel BOFTA is the worst of the series and one of Jackson's worst.
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:40pm
Post #39 of 65
(385 views)
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Of course my post is an "IMHO" post.
And no, it was not posted to aggravate anybody.
I thought people here knew I was neither someone to praise nor someone to hate something without reasons. I am obviously mistaken.
I thought my posts about positive aspects of this last one as well as countless discussion contributions over the years showed I wasn't a hater (I did not even give it a really bad rating) or someone just here to annoy people.
The post you two speak about also had more to say than just that statement.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jan 22 2015, 3:46pm)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:50pm
Post #40 of 65
(357 views)
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No, I wasn't referring to your post
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Anyway, I have loads of work to do at the moment, so need to go away. (It doesn't help that I work on my computer at home and am alerted every time a 'response' post comes through.)
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:51pm
Post #41 of 65
(351 views)
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I just thought so because I was quoted in the post you answered to.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Elessar
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:53pm
Post #42 of 65
(360 views)
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I do loathe a bit when people state how you started off in that post though. It is comes off as an opinion/statement of fact. I know that isn't how you tend to do things.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 3:57pm
Post #43 of 65
(342 views)
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I think I may have got the posts mixed up
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Because I was thinking about another one I'd just seen.
Anyway, as I indicated –
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Old Toby
Grey Havens
Jan 22 2015, 4:49pm
Post #44 of 65
(336 views)
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I'm with ya all the way on this one
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BOTFA is also my favorite of the Hobbit films. And it's probably my second favorite (or maybe third, I haven't made up my mind yet) of all PJ's Middle-earth films. There are so many moments I love in this one, from Smaug's torching of Laketown to all of Thorin's scenes with Bilbo and Dwalin to the final fight between Thorin and Azog on the ice. Can't wait for the extended edition already!
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 5:33pm
Post #45 of 65
(316 views)
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If I rank all six ME films together, BotFA is probably my favourite, along with FotR. However, I don't really like doing this, preferring to keep the two trilogies separate, because they are very different in tone and acting (better overall in the Hobbit than in LotR, I think), and the visual effects have advanced considerably since the LotR films were made. I find many of the latter absolutely breathtaking (Smaug, destruction of Lake-town, waterfall in Rivendell, Eagles, Erebor, Thorin and gold hall, Thorin on ice, etc).
BOTFA is also my favorite of the Hobbit films. And it's probably my second favorite (or maybe third, I haven't made up my mind yet) of all PJ's Middle-earth films. There are so many moments I love in this one, from Smaug's torching of Laketown to all of Thorin's scenes with Bilbo and Dwalin to the final fight between Thorin and Azog on the ice. Can't wait for the extended edition already!
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burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 22 2015, 7:44pm
Post #46 of 65
(317 views)
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No the critical reception is relatively poor
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Yes the critics are not everything, and if you like the film you should not be that concerned what the critics say.
But it is just a simple fact that the critical reception of BotFA has been the poorest of any of PJ's Middle Earth films. Amongst top critics (broadsheets, significant film magazines) the film is rated rotten on RT, being criticised in a number of broadsheets, from the New York Times, to the Washington Post, Financial Times, Sight and Sound... -
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_hobbit_the_battle_of_the_five_armies/reviews/?type=top_critics
There's still more than half of the serious critics that were positive, but 54% positive it's a world away from the ratings of LotR- 89%, 97% and 97% positive for each LotR installment.
(This post was edited by burrahobbit on Jan 22 2015, 7:46pm)
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Jeffrodo
Bree
Jan 22 2015, 8:03pm
Post #47 of 65
(290 views)
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I loved all three films for different reasons. To me, BOFA felt the most different of them all (including the 3 LOTR) because:
1.) It lacked a real prologue (which I think really matters)
and
2.) It takes place basically in one location. All of the other films are either road movies or have many different locales and events. BOFA was in one spot for the duration which made it feel different.
Honestly, if I had to rank them right now...I would probably rank:
1.) Unexpected Journey
2.) Desolation of Smaug
3.) Battle of the Five Armies
Together with LOTR, I'd rank:
1.) Fellowship
2.) Return of the King
3.) Two Towers
4.) Unexpected Journey
5.) Desolation of Smaug
6.) Battle of the Five Armies
Now that makes it look like I don't like Five Armies. Far from it. I love all six movies, but it is (at least until the Extended Edition) the one I love the least right now. It's also the one I've watched the least. So I have to give it some time...
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burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 22 2015, 8:13pm
Post #48 of 65
(284 views)
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Taking LotR completely out the equation, the screenplay, dialogue, pacing, characterisation of BotFA is much weaker than say King Kong, or Heavenly Creatures. It might not be PJ's worst film, but it's a long way from his best work. I think you're expressing a mainstream view shared by many critics, at least outside of PJ fandom.
I think BotFA was the film where the implications of the three film decision really came home and cost the adaptation. Smaug dies 10 minutes in, and then there's just not enough of Tolkien's story left to tell. So we get a very long action film. Not terrible, but not great.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jan 22 2015, 8:58pm
Post #49 of 65
(265 views)
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In my area, Chicago suburban...it is still showing at least
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2 x during the week and 2-4 x on weekend, with standard and 3D options.
https://www.google.com/...HIkvx1FACw7VEhLgAAAA
For me, I liked the prologue and old Bilbo / Frodo of AUJ...only the excessive Mountain Giants and Goblin tunnel amusement rides got on my nerves.
DOS was very good. I really enjoyed BOTFA - however - there are some miscues. I don't mind Tauriel or Legolas etc. ...my issue is that it should have been longer.....EE carries a heavy burden.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jan 22 2015, 9:02pm)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jan 22 2015, 9:33pm
Post #50 of 65
(287 views)
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...is its lack of resolution of so many story lines.
Do they just leave Thorin's body lying on the ice? Who becomes King Under the Mountain now that Thorin and his nephews are all dead? Who's in charge of Laketown now? What was the point of Beorn's big build-up in DOS if he barely even appears in the third movie? Do the Elves and Dwarves kiss and make up, or do they go right back to hating and fighting each other?
They included one scene that I'm fairly confident is the beginning of Thorin's funeral/burial, but they don't show any of that so it just looks like a bunch of random people taking their hats off and looking somber.
I wanted to see a lot more of what happened to everyone else before Bilbo went home.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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I agree with your 'WoW'
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