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Scalpy
Bree
Jan 21 2015, 12:43am
Post #1 of 19
(1531 views)
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So I finally saw BOFA - my thoughts
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It was 'ok'.
Pros- Smaug was absolutely, devastatingly wonderful. I had goosebumps.
- The slaying of Smaug (though I would have preferred the Black Arrow)
- The White Council at Dol Guldur and the appearance of the Nine (could have done without the over choreographed fighting) but was very impressive none-the-less
- Bard talking with Thorin at the gate was excellent, both actors were fantastic in this scene (though I'm not sure how Thorin would have know Bard was 'the dragonslayer'?)
- The 'look' of Dain was brilliant
- Bilbo returning home to be presumed dead was great
Negatives- Alfrid...I really didn't like Alfrid
- Boreworm things. What the hell?
- The absurd notion that Elves would jump over a well formed Dwarven defensive line to certain death seemed a little daft to me
- Legolas and Tauriel doing the 600 odd mile round trip to Mount Gundabad and back in the blink of an eye
- The bizarre BBC studio look of the battle in Dale. The lighting was so strange in this. (I have a friend in the film industry who heard rumours of a lack of cash/deadline pressures causing this - strange I know but he's someone I can totally trust)
- The ridiculously clumsy 'If this is love, I do not want it' scene - utterly cringeworthy
- The excessive (and obvious) use of CGI
- Lack of Beorn (I'm assuming there will be more in the extended edition, but it really should be in the cinema release)
So all in all I give it a 6/10. It's entertaining obviously, but there are things that really grated me (the main ones being that lighting in Dale and the Tauriel/Kili thing.
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Scalpy
Bree
Jan 21 2015, 5:47am
Post #3 of 19
(801 views)
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...please excuse my stupidity!
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Drakblod
Rivendell
Jan 21 2015, 8:24am
Post #4 of 19
(820 views)
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I think you're being too nice..
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It has a few highlights, but it's still a mess of a movie. I assume they kept Smaug since they tought that no one wold watch the last movie if Smaug was killed in the second one, but boy does it feel like a cop out when he gets killed in what, 5 minutes? Bard doesn't even say his iconic line! The White Council fight looked like a video game, and while cool to see it wasn't executed that well nor was it worth all that build up during the previous movies.
Zombie Dain was awful. You really can tell he isn't there when he's chatting with Thorin in the battle. While I enjoyed the Auction scene, I still believe the ending is rushed. It's unforgiveable that they didn't include the funeral scene nor Dain becoming the new king, it doesn't matter if they've decided to put it in the EE, they should have cut out some Legolas stunts or Alfrid "Comedy" to put it in.
I agree with all of your negatives. I'd rate it maybe a 2/10, it's really, really bad.
like butter scraped over too much bread.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 21 2015, 8:38am
Post #5 of 19
(776 views)
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Smaug WAS killed with the Black Arrow
As Avandel says, the four dwarves returning from Laketown would certainly have told Thorin and the others who killed the dragon
The 'boreworm things' were an interpretation of 'the Wereworms in the Last Desert' which Bilbo mentions early on in the book and Tolkien never defines. Or perhaps a combination of what they imagine a 'Wereworm' might be with something else Tolkien mentions - the tunnels the goblins used to reach the battle.
Glad you liked some of it anyway!
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Scalpy
Bree
Jan 21 2015, 9:19am
Post #6 of 19
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Smaug in the film was killed by 'a' black arrow (well it was more of a quarrel) but it was one of many designed to be used on a large ballista type crossbow, it wasn't a regular arrow fired from a bow as depicted in the book.
My issue with the wereworms is the fact that the 'forces of evil' have control over this monstrous things, but only use them to burrow holes for the goblins to come through. Why not just order them to take out the Dwarves/Elves?
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 21 2015, 9:47am
Post #7 of 19
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Even in the book it wasn't 'a regular arrow' it was a particular arrow which Bard appeared to have used multiple times. In the films they have already established an identity and a history for their version of Black Arrow. It was this arrow Bard used to kill Smaug with an improvised bow. Not, as many people expected (and complained about beforehand) the windlance, but an emergency bow of his own devising. The essentials of the story stand. Bard kills Smaug with the Black Arrow. Yes, it is different from the book but this is an adaptation, and you said yourself that you enjoyed the scene.
As to rest, it's up to you. You either you enjoy the film for what it is or you look for problems with it. You really can't do both.
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Jan 21 2015, 10:06am
Post #8 of 19
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I think you are being too nice.
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I believe it's the worst movie ever made. A 1/10 rating should be more appropriate imo. 2/10 is really generous.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 21 2015, 12:22pm
Post #9 of 19
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Completely disagree – it's a 10/10 for me
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Particularly because of the acting (Thorin and Bilbo and their relationship stand out for me), and the marvellous visuals, some of which are unlike anything I've seen before.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 21 2015, 12:23pm
Post #10 of 19
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To me the worms did not look like fighting creatures – they were merely there to create the holes in the hills. They make perfect sense to me.
My issue with the wereworms is the fact that the 'forces of evil' have control over this monstrous things, but only use them to burrow holes for the goblins to come through. Why not just order them to take out the Dwarves/Elves?
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 21 2015, 4:53pm
Post #11 of 19
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Smaug is a beautiful scene IMO
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Just sayin', for me - not that I worry that much about what's in the book anyway since I haven't re-read it yet. Just this weekend I tripped over the actual section re Bard and Thorin and got a little thrill over how much the the movie had adapted and was THERE - e.g., the comments about the Laketowners seeking wealth, the building of the wall, and "Begone! 'Ere our arrows fly!"
And for me the Bard/Thorin scene is amazing and a favorite - one of Luke Evans best scenes and Richard Armitage is jaw-dropping; using the wall that way re the sound and the visual and the implication of how distant Thorin has become, mentally (for me). E.g. it's more of that subtle insanity.
Heck, the visual of the wall itself is great - the dwarves being superb craftsmen even put up an angled edge with shooting portals - great thoughts re the set designers.
And IMO Laketown is just so good, Smaug is so beautifully rendered , and Bard and Bain are so touching. IMO nobody does fire the way WETA does.So I was hoping I'd see Bard facing Smaug down on the bridge, like the poster, but the way it was actually done works for me. And considering how LARGE Smaug was in the movie don't think some little arrow would cut it - think the movie makes that point.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 21 2015, 6:58pm
Post #13 of 19
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I think that whole scene of Smaug burning Laketown is breathtaking, and the climax with Bard using Bain to support the arrow, and trying to take his mind off what it coming brought tears to my eyes - which doesn't often happen with me in films, and never so near the beginning.
I also agree that there's more of the book in the films than people usually give credit for. The differences stand out and are noticed but quietly in the background there are so many little details that go straight from page to screen.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jan 21 2015, 7:02pm
Post #14 of 19
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Which implies that they transform. Perhaps when they came out of their dark holes and were hit by sunlight they transformed back into men or orcs.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Jan 21 2015, 7:07pm
Post #15 of 19
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Bard talking with Thorin at the gate was excellent, both actors were fantastic in this scene (though I'm not sure how Thorin would have know Bard was 'the dragonslayer'?)
Richard Armitage and Luke Evans played this scene so well. Though for some reason - and I'm not sure why - it reminds me of the scene from the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy and her companions arrive at the Emerald City and the munchkin at the gate says, "What's the password?"
Bilbo returning home to be presumed dead was great
I loved how there were moments not only linking the story to LOTR, but back to AUJ. Such as the glory box and Bilbo's handkerchief.
Boreworm things. What the hell?
I thought we would have seen more of these things. That they would actually be a part of the battle come up from under the ground, snatching dwarves, men, and elves an taking them back under.
The ridiculously clumsy 'If this is love, I do not want it' scene - utterly cringeworthy
I'm not sure what the filmmakers were trying to accomplish with this scene. You basically have two types of audience members: those who adore the Kili/ Tauriel relationship and those who have not bought it for one second. The first group doesn't need to be told "it's real"...they already believe "it's real". The other group (which I am a part of) does not believe "it's real" and no Elven-king saying "it's real" is going to make us think otherwise. So, as I see it, this scene only preached to choir and fell on deaf ears.
Lack of Beorn (I'm assuming there will be more in the extended edition, but it really should be in the cinema release)
Agree, more Beorn should have been in the TE, as well as some other things (i.e. the funeral scene, more dwarves). To me it seemed some of what was include in the TE should have been saved for the EE. While some of what is speculated to be in the EE should have been in the TE.
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pettytyrant101
Lorien
Jan 21 2015, 7:10pm
Post #16 of 19
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did not tend to use were with that meaning.
And there is no reason given in the films why the wereworms could not have decimated Dains army- Dain and co arrive on the hills exactly opposite the seemingly same sort of hills the orcs emerge from.
No need for the worms do any fighting, all they have to do is what they are doing- burrow under the ground, burrow beneath Dain's army and the ground above collapses taking dwarves and Dain with it.
There is nothing in the film to suggest this could not be the case or any explanation as to why it is not the case, other than having made use of the worms for their cgi spectacular the script no longer needs them so forgets all about them.
Its also odd they felt they had to go to such lengths to have the goblin army arrive unannounced (as it is in the book) when earlier in the same film not one but two armies- elves and Dains - both arrive unannounced and unseen. would a third arriving in similar fashion have made any difference by then given how they scripted events to that point with the other two armies?
"A lot of our heroes depress me. But when they made this particular hero they didn't give him a gun, they gave him a screwdriver so he could fix things. They didn't give him a tank, or a warship, or an x-wing fighter, they gave him a call box from which you can call for help. And they didn't give him a superpower, or pointy ears or a heat ray, they gave him an extra heart. And that's an extraordinary thing.
There will never come a time when we don't need a hero like the Doctor."- Steven Moffat
(This post was edited by pettytyrant101 on Jan 21 2015, 7:11pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Jan 21 2015, 9:32pm
Post #18 of 19
(473 views)
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You're the one who is being too generous
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I would say -5 at most.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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