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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 19 2015, 7:39pm
Post #1 of 38
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It will never be enough: fan fic sequels/time to recast Legolas, Aragorn, Gandalf? *ducks*
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Re another poster's thread - so, a wish has been expressed from some to have another film with Legolas and Aragorn and their travels. Myself would really love to see Thorin & co. in exile, wandering, maybe even that scene where Thranduil turns his back on the whole group, expanding as to why Thranduil chooses to so (as even in BOFA Thranduil DOES bring aid, and certainly re the book Thranduil has many unexplored qualities of character and motivations). And the rebuilding in the Blue Mountains and more on the dwarves. So I think most, if not all of the dwarves could be filmed as is over the next few years. Lots of hair and dirt and prosthetics can help the fudging along, re "age regression". Ian McKellan seems lively and healthy. But re Aragorn and Legolas - not all of the time, but a lot of the time, I don't think the age regression of OB was successful and downright distracting at times. Tho kudos to OB for getting in there and doing the stunt and knife work - impressive! And VM - well, at this time I just don't see it. Perhaps playing his own father with prosthetics. And for me VM was never the Aragon I saw in my head, so if he was recast with a suitable actor, I would be good with it. (And anyway VM may or may not have 'tude and REFUSE completely LOL) Assuming folks could get past what is dismissed as fan fiction re a sequel, would recasting Aragorn and Legolas bother you? It will happen at some point I am sure, but would it bother you if it was done over the next five years?
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jan 19 2015, 8:26pm
Post #2 of 38
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I don't see what the problem would be.
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If a new adaptation is made and you like it, great. If you don't like it, what have you lost?
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Jan 19 2015, 9:08pm
Post #3 of 38
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it would be awesome to see the badass trio: Aragorn , Legolas and Gandalf
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More built up to LOTR. Seriosly, you dont hace the idea of how LOTR movies change after having watched Hobbit ones. A bridge movie with this three would have been spectacular
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Jan 19 2015, 9:23pm
Post #4 of 38
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of cool things that could appear? Aragorn and Legolas go to Lothlorien and there they meet Arwen. Footage restored for that scene. Young Aragorn as described by PJ would be a no beard Viggo , almost looking like an elf (strong depiction and reference of the Half-Elven choice) (perhaps the Dunedain look more like elfs in their young days) Xenarwen (please. copy and add moreXD)
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero
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Ilmatar
Rohan
Jan 19 2015, 9:35pm
Post #5 of 38
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IF there was going to be a new movie (or several!), I'd rather see more of the dwarves as I think my Legolas quota has been quite well filled by both LotR and the Hobbit - not that I have anything against him.
Myself would really love to see Thorin & co. in exile, wandering, maybe even that scene where Thranduil turns his back on the whole group, expanding as to why Thranduil chooses to so (as even in BOFA Thranduil DOES bring aid, and certainly re the book Thranduil has many unexplored qualities of character and motivations). And the rebuilding in the Blue Mountains and more on the dwarves. So I think most, if not all of the dwarves could be filmed as is over the next few years. Lots of hair and dirt and prosthetics can help the fudging along, re "age regression". All of the above! And if there were more movies and one took place after the events in the Hobbit, I'd really like to see the rebuilding and re-population of Erebor. The King Under the Mountain has sacrificed everything to reclaim this ancient kingdom of his people - it's not a meaningless loss, it has a profound effect for the whole dwarf race. At the end of BO5A there are ten dwarves standing by the gates - what will happen to them? Will they have further (smaller) adventures or just settle in the mountain? Will they visit Bilbo and have tea at four? How much more of their kin will move in from the Blue Mountains and the Iron Hills? Will some of them get married and have children? How will they feel having Dain for a king, instead of Thorin as they had presumed since before the quest for Erebor begun? How will the newly established trade connections affect Erebor, Dale and beyond? I'd like to have answers (although I have no idea if many are given in the official Tolkien canon), and I'd love to see Erebor rebuilt into its former glory. I do realize that this is not material for an actual movie plot, but it could be included in a bridge movie that goes between the Hobbit and LotR.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 19 2015, 10:22pm
Post #6 of 38
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And LOL, that answers that. To a degree. But within the next five years - I wondered if certain characters are so identified with certain actors - especially Legolas and Aragorn - that any re-casting would be an automatic fail, just from negative feelings about it. Some films seem to fail just from negative feelings ahead of time.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 19 2015, 10:29pm
Post #7 of 38
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VM isn't as young as he used to be, and while he's still quite handsome for his age, he doesn't look like he did over ten years ago. IMO, it would be a stretch for him to even play Aragorn again at the age he was LOTR, much less a younger version. He would definitely have to be recast and as long as they found a great actor, I'd be fine with it. I'd be fine with them recasting Leggy too, but if they were really going to do a sequel over the next five years, I think they'd probably stick with OB for the sake of continuity.
"Your love is like radiant diamonds Bursting inside us we cannot contain Your love will surely come find us Like blazing wild fires singing Your name. God of mercy sweet love of mine I have surrendered to Your design May this offering stretch across the skies And these Halleluiahs be multiplied" -"Multiplied" by Needtobreathe
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burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 19 2015, 11:57pm
Post #8 of 38
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PJ didn't want to direct The Hobbit, and after more than a decade of Tolkien he must be bored out of his mind with everything to do with Middle Earth. PJ and his production company now have masses and masses of cash, and will I expect experiment with a series of new films and adaptations. There's absolutely nothing to gain for them to return to Middle Earth for what would surely be a lame fan fiction (especially when PJ's taken a critical pasting for the fan fiction elements of The Hobbit). Without PJ, such a film would not get off the ground. Then there's the cast. Viggo has already sensibly stayed clear of The Hobbit, and criticised it. He won't touch any further proposals. I expect Ian McKellan has nothing to gain either, and will have many more interesting film and theatre offers. Orlando might be available though! :-P Seriously though, has The Hobbit not done enough damage? It has already diminished the achievement of the LotR films with its substandard writing, characters and excruciating dialogue, and completely misguided attempt to turn a children's fairy tale into a nine hour epic. Rather than do further harm to Tolkien's work, it's time for the franchise to end.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Jan 20 2015, 12:01am
Post #9 of 38
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Just want to remind everyone that del Toro toyed with the idea of a bridge movie...
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A movie that tied his single The Hobbit movie to The Lord of the Rings, before he decided to just split The Hobbit in two. So there must be a few ideas and unfinished concepts out there.
(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jan 20 2015, 12:02am)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 20 2015, 12:06am
Post #10 of 38
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… with your opinion. I think the Hobbit is fantastic! I won't bother to explain why I think so, since there is obviously little point in doing so in this case. The Hobbit has not done any 'damage' as far as I'm concerned – on the contrary. It obviously gave millions of people a huge amount of enjoyment. How anyone can say that 'PJ didn't want to direct The Hobbit' is a mystery to me, given how much of himself he obviously put into the films. If he hadn't wanted to direct the films, he would not have done so. A lot of claims are made about PJ's motivations because it suits some people to use such allegations as back-up for their own opinions.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jan 20 2015, 12:12am)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 20 2015, 12:15am
Post #11 of 38
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And as mentioned in a previous post, I think VM and OB are too old, and Sir Ian would find it too tough, to participate in further ME films. (There were already massive complaints about the way Legolas looked in The Hobbit films.)
I wondered if certain characters are so identified with certain actors - especially Legolas and Aragorn - that any re-casting would be an automatic fail, just from negative feelings about it. Some films seem to fail just from negative feelings ahead of time.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jan 20 2015, 12:16am)
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 20 2015, 12:49am
Post #12 of 38
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Whoa - IMO this is a bit strong
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Tho I CAN understand if the films were a disappointment for some. I really can. Tho I can't share with that disappointment. Guess I should have added to my original post - "which PJ may or may not be directing" but I got the impression, if PJ's healthy, from the article that TORn posted, that PJ himself was saying towards the end that should a new ME film of some kind ever be done, he would want to be involved. And re my original post - IMO fan fiction is an interesting concept really - if you really stretch a point, Tolkien himself was kind of "fanfictioning" original mythologies and folklore. He didn't just make stuff up, he drew on influences from literature, mythology, history. I would also argue that fleshing out a story - e.g. "fan fiction" doesn't HAVE to be lame and there are are many examples of beautiful, non-canon scenes in both the Hobbit and LOTR. The only critical pasting I know that PJ has really received (re canon) is over Tauriel - but to be fair, among critics, as far as I can tell, it's a mixed thing. Some critics quite like Tauriel, describing her as "refreshing" and "delightful".
Seriously though, has The Hobbit not done enough damage? It has already the achievement of the LotR films with its substandard writing, characters and excruciating dialogue, and completely misguided attempt to turn a children's fairy tale into a nine hour epic. Rather than do further harm to Tolkien's work, it's time for the franchise to end. I don't see this. Well, for one thing, these are my favorite movies and the only thing that "diminished" LOTR are the flaws (what I personally don't like, in other words) are the things that were always there. Nor do I see that a film version of any book diminishes the book - how can it? If someone has an image in their head from a film, and later reads the book, they might be surprised - pleased or disappointed - but that is up to an individual. Finally, we do know that Tolkien was thinking, or actually attempting, to re-write the Hobbit to bring it more in line with LOTR. And tho he abandoned the attempt, who can say if Tolkien had done so, that the final result wouldn't have been a short children's fairy tale, but something not that far from what PJ has accomplished? PS. - As for Viggo - IMO the general public will never really know, probably, if any overtures were made to him, or not, tho different stories are out. Myself, even based on OB's mild comment in a Collider article that basically when OB arrived on set, that the Hobbit actors weren't coming to him for advice being an LOTR veteran - e.g., maybe Viggo didn't care, but then you have all these LOTR actors asked back to the Hobbit, and there's the frenzy over something new - I mean even Star Trek and Star Wars veterans are back for their respective reboots. I'd be hard pressed to believe none of that crossed VM's mind, at all. Not even a little tucked in scene at the end of BOFA, which probably would have delighted fans, of Legolas coming upon this Ranger in the wild. Just a little cameo.
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jan 20 2015, 1:19am
Post #13 of 38
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that Christopher Tolkien still has his hands on the reigns, and would hopefully sue the pants off anyone who tried to commercially produce such garbage. And it would be garbage - unless there's a world class writer out there somewhere who actually wants to piggy-back on somebody else's imagination and is capable of doing it with Tolkien's world. Given that many others have tried to produce books in the same vein over the years, and we now have entire shelves in bookshops filled with the dregs of literature as a result, I'd say that Tolkien is probably a one-off, and people should look to other stories about other things for their film adaptations, if they don't have an actual proper book to take as a starting point.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Gianna
Rohan
Jan 20 2015, 1:57am
Post #14 of 38
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Recasting Aragorn would certainly bother me
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Viggo has always been the perfect Aragorn in my opinion; I can't imagine anyone else in the role! Not having Orlando back for Legolas would be distracting at the least, but it wouldn't be as annoying for me as a different Aragorn. As you said, the attempt to make Orli look younger in TH didn't work out very well. Still, the fact remains that he is a great Legolas, and I would miss him! That would probs be the worst thing about a sequel (after the fact that it would be mostly fanfic) -- they would likely have to recast a lot of the characters, and for me, most of the original actors just are their characters.
~There's some good left in this world. And it's worth fighting for.~
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 20 2015, 3:28am
Post #15 of 38
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And IMO that is a huge compliment to the actors' work
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That would probs be the worst thing about a sequel (after the fact that it would be mostly fanfic) -- they would likely have to recast a lot of the characters, and for me, most of the original actors just are their characters. I would think that's one of the highest compliments an actor or actress can receive, and why I raised the question in a post. At least for the next five/seven years IMO re PJ's films it would be very hard to recast anyone, and have that accepted - e.g. it would have to be a heck of a film, because for right now PJ's work and the casts have cast a very long shadow. Even tho it seems Hollywood can't wait to reboot anything successful these days. PS. Re:
As you said, the attempt to make Orli look younger in TH didn't work out very well. Still, the fact remains that he is a great Legolas, and I would miss him! I should say tho, IMO sometimes it DID. Right at the moment for instance when Legolas is telling the elf on horseback to let his father know at Laketown, right then, at least to me it seemed as tho time had rolled back and it was the same LOTR Legolas, when a few seconds before OB didn't seem to look like Legolas at all, but like a relative (when he is telling Tauriel to say to take leave of the dwarf). That's what drives me crazy, sometimes in DOS and BOFA it's a perfect LOTR Legolas - other times, too much messing-with-his face; and in the Appendices OB looks beautiful!?!
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FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien
Jan 20 2015, 3:45am
Post #16 of 38
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It's always great to see fans taking the initiative and showing off their creative talents in the interest of entertaining fellow Tolkien enthusiasts. However, at this moment, it's hard for me to get excited about more big-budget, blockbuster Middle Earth movies. PJ has accomplished quite a feat --- 6 films, telling a continuous narrative about the adventures of Hobbits and their companions. To quote Bilbo, it's more than any [Tolkien Fan] deserves. Can't we just be happy with the films we have? Does every possible plot line need to be depicted in film? The books aren't going anywhere, and they contain a level detail that will never be recreated on the big screen. I suggest that people hankering for more adventures with Aragorn and Legolas revisit the books -- you can truly discover new details and insights every time you read them. Yes, it's possible that there could be more Middle Earth films made. They could squeeze some sort of plot out of the appendixes, but it would be no more than big-budget fan fiction, with little basis in Tolkien's work. Throw in the fact that Viggo, Orlando, and McKellen would be unlikely to reprise their roles, and it's hard to get excited. Another round of films might be a bridge too far. Thankfully, I doubt any such films will ever be made. PJ seems ready to move on from Middle Earth. At some point it will be too difficult to reunite cast members of LOTR and the Hobbit due to age. While watching material from the appendixes might sound appealing to those of us on TORN, I doubt mainstream audiences would get extremely hyped about it unless they threw Tolkien out the window and just went all-in on the thriller-style action/chase sequences, like BOFA times ten. Let's just be thankful for what we have. 6 great films and the most wonderful fantasy books of all time.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 20 2015, 5:07am
Post #17 of 38
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(blunders into wild uproar, checks to see if helmet strap is tightened...)
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Well, I quite liked all the middle earth films, but was a book geek first. I fell in love with Legolas when Orlando Bloom was in diapers, and viewed Orli through narrowed eyes for awhile until he convinced me he understood the character enough not to destroy him. (still....a... fan...) Viggo made Aragorn comprehensible to me. And he's an interesting and awesome person (and good horseman). Would love to see an in between film, or something else. Or anything that takes us back to Middle Earth. But we are dealing with human actors who are ageing... but then, Harry Potter replaced its wizard halfway through... There have been more than a dozen Doctors Who... I happen to like both Obi Wan Kenobis... and a number of Sherlocks and several Zorros, so... The right casting could bring us perfectly good Aragorns and Legolai...
"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 20 2015, 9:02am
Post #18 of 38
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Peter Jackson isn't 'bored out of his mind with Middle Earth'...
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In interview last summer he said that having initially been reluctant to take on The Hobbit, because he would, in a sense, be competing with himself - and because he was worried about how to cope with the 13 dwarves as main characters - he found he enjoyed it. This is what he said:
I just turned up on set and realized, I am actually really enjoying this. I enjoyed going back into Middle-earth again. It wasn’t repeating myself or copying myself. It was a different story, different dialogue, most of the characters were different. So I was wrong to have that fear. I really enjoyed it. And as for making another Middle Earth film, he isn't expecting it but he doesn't right it off and he certainly isn't unwilling. Again, these are his words:
Having been happy to hand The Hobbit to Guillermo [Del Toro] and then doing it myself, I definitely ended up with a stronger sense of ownership of Middle-earth than I ever had before, and it would be kind of hard to sit back and watch another filmmaker do stories if they were connected to these ones. If they weren’t connected, then sure. But if it was something connected to this mythology that we’ve done, if I had the energy and the strength then I would really want to do it. Never say never! So there you have it, from the horse's mouth! As for your last comments, they're so over the top they make me smile. Why is it that the people who don't like The Hobbit feel they have to be so cosmic about it? OK, you think it's a bad adaptation - fair enough. But it's just a 3-part film, that's all. It will carry on in cinemas for a while, then go to home entertainment. Those of us who enjoy it will go on enjoying it; those who don't can forget it, and the general audience will move on to other films. How in the name of all that's sane and reasonable do you think it can do any damage to anyone or anything? The LotR films will stand as classics forever and The Hobbit hasn't changed a single second of them. And as for harming Tolkien's work..... How, precisely, do you think a film can do this? Has any previous adaptation of The Hobbit harmed Tolkien? They come and go, but the book is the book and goes on forever.
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moreorless
Gondor
Jan 20 2015, 9:52am
Post #19 of 38
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Perhaps its just me seelng things that arent there BUT...
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Am I the only one who somewhat got the sense that the whole Angmar part of the story almost seemed like a bit of a setup for some future film/s based around the War in the North? It could well be that he was simply adding an "unexplored vista" as Tolkien put it or perhaps even that these sections will be resolved a bit more in the BOT5A's EE but after that film I actually think he's layed a good bit of ground for some kind of War in the North prequel. You've got the Witchking himself obviously but you've also now got Thranduil and his wife involved in the story as well plus of course the potential for Aragorn's ancestors and various Elven and(if the events are shifted forward) wizard characters to feature. Honestly for me as well the Thranduil aspect of such a story sounds potentially very interesting moreso than your typical good vs evil blockbuster and I would say that Lee Pace's depiction of him is a character I'm left wanting to see more of his story.
(This post was edited by moreorless on Jan 20 2015, 9:53am)
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Jan 20 2015, 10:55am
Post #20 of 38
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Viggo- "The Ungrateful"- Mortensen criticised not only the Hobbit but The Two Towers and The Return of the King as well.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Jan 20 2015, 10:55am)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jan 20 2015, 12:24pm
Post #21 of 38
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I agree with you on those points. //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?' (Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Jan 20 2015, 1:18pm
Post #22 of 38
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I always have doubts about sequels, and reboots, and even about favorite books being made into movies, but sometimes the result is amazing, so I would never automatically just say "no" to another Middle-earth film. The script would have to be pretty great, though, and I think that would be the hardest part. As for re-casting the roles, I think that could work out fine, once again depending on the quality of the final product. For example, as a longtime Star Trek fan I just couldn't imagine a new Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, etc. but the new Star Trek movie cast is wonderful and won me over right from the beginning. And if a Star Trek fan can accept a new Spock, then ANYTHING is possible.
__________________ Gold is the strife of kinsmen, and fire of the flood-tide, and the path of the serpent. (Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)
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painjoiker
Grey Havens
Jan 20 2015, 1:20pm
Post #23 of 38
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Why does people seemingly think,
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That if a new movie comes out PJ is going to do it? If PJ doesn't want to do one Warner Bros. is going to find someone else who will That is the reality of this situation! Rumors are already spreading that they are thinking about other potential spinn-off movies and I am sure PJ is not going to direct them. Best case scenario is having PJ as producer... nothing more
Vocalist of the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 20 2015, 2:00pm
Post #24 of 38
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Perhaps it's because he says now that if another film happens....
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... before he retires, and if it's related to areas of the mythology in the existing films, then he would want to direct it. He does want to do it. And as far as the studios go, with six commercial successes behind him he must the obvious choice. I think it's extremely unlikely to happen. I'm not sure that I'd even want it to, but if by some remote chance it did, I think the reality of the situation is that Peter Jackson would probably do it.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 20 2015, 5:18pm
Post #25 of 38
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Exactly IMO - and a quality sequel or rebbot is possible!
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I always have doubts about sequels, and reboots, and even about favorite books being made into movies, but sometimes the result is amazing, so I would never automatically just say "no" to another Middle-earth film. The script would have to be pretty great, though, and I think that would be the hardest part. And for the most part IMO the Hobbit scripts have been fantastic - two examples for me being Thorin/Balin and Gandalf/Bilbo in Bag End - scripts delivered by amazing actors and IMO those scenes are jewels. Glad Star Trek was brought up, I only went to the first one because it was a "group" choice that night and I was like, whatever, and then I go and really enjoy it and think the bringing together of old and new was really well done! Plus the cast was fun and engaging.
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