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lionoferebor
Rohan
Jan 18 2015, 10:45pm
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Was it an afterthought ?
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When I first read The Hobbit several years ago, I thought it strange Tolkien would wait until chapter 10 (A Warm Welcome) to reveal that Fili and Kili are Thorin's nephews. It seemed (to me) like something that should have been established within the first chapter or two, and I often wondered if it was an afterthought on Tolkien's part. But I read the book again, not too long ago, and noticed something I had not before. Thorin, Fili, and Kili all arrive at Bag End wearing blue hoods. Thorin's with a silver tassel and Fili and Kili with silver belts. I now wonder if the matching hoods are a subtle hint to the reader that these three are of the same line, and that the uncle/nephew relationship was indeed not an afterthought on Tolkien's part. (And that the blue and silver may possibly be the colors of their house). Any thoughts?
Also, while we're on the subject, I've never understood why Thorin introduces Fili and Kili as "The sons of my father's daughter" (ch. 10), instead of as "The sons of my sister" or even "The sons of my father and mother's daughter". Any thoughts on this?
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FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien
Jan 19 2015, 1:45am
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I'll take a stab at your 2nd question
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The short answer is probably "Dwarven patriarchy." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that when dealing with royalty (in real life or in Middle Earth), one status as a noble seems to be framed in relation to your father. And the dwarves as portrayed in the Hobbit (and Tolkien's work broadly) seem to be a very male-centric culture.
That would be my guess.
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Brethil
Half-elven
Jan 19 2015, 1:54am
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The tradition of the sister-son
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seems prevalent in Anglo-Saxon and/or Germanic literature. I wonder if - in a patriarchal society, such as perhaps Middle-earth Dwarves or the Rohirrim - the male children of one's sister will require tutelage and protection if that sister is a widow, and thus the 'sister-son' is an appellate to describe something move involved than 'nephew'.
Not sure if this is what JRRT intended, or if the language was merely a nod to old literary traditions.
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dreamflower
Lorien
Jan 24 2015, 1:15pm
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One of the few things JRRT reveals about Dwarven culture is that they are very protective of the Dwarven women, because they are so few, and that they are also extremely private (e.g., they won't teach their language to "outsiders"). I wonder if perhaps there is a tradition of only referring obliquely to their female kin when speaking to non-Dwarves? Or perhaps they even have a special word for "nephew by sister" as opposed to "nephew by brother", and that this would be as close a translation as possible?
Just speculating, because that might be the sort of linguistic play Tolkien might indulge in.
Also: well-spotted on the hoods! I'd never even given that a thought for the last 48 years! I love learning something new!
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