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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 17 2015, 7:25pm
Post #1 of 49
(1987 views)
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BOFA EE time - are we too easily appeased? 30 vs. 45 minutes vs. "6 hours"...
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Re articles on the EE time - the thought popped into my head - who sets the time length for an EE version anyway??? - except for physical disk space - which I don't know.
Plus the BR has to "match" the DVD and so on. And the streaming file size/download size issue.
So, for me, I think 30 minutes (assuming there is lots of juicy footage filmed, and I assume there is, as RA had said in an article "if everything filmed was included, the movie would be 6 hours long" LOL works for me...)
Is NOT enough . Forty-five minutes for an EE I think is needed - based on the material I think needed to be covered and slowing the pace of this film down a bit and even just showing close-in shots and other things just for the joy of the fans (I still could use a few more seconds of Gypsy Vanner ponies re the DOS EE ). But people seem excited about the "extra 30 minutes"....tho I thought 45 minutes was the original extra time rumored, initially.
It just to me seems like such a potential waste of things that were probably filmed anyway, even if it makes the narrative a bit rough.
On the other hand, re the move away from disks by the industry and so many cutbacks, it seems we are fortunate to even get bonus material and EEs. As far as I know, no director HAS to make a product like that. And there's the sales vs. no sales issue. But seems to me, disk production etc. is relatively cheap, now - profit vs. production cost.
Thoughts? Esp. the file size of LOL a six hour long film . But I know, for me, the BOFA marathon was the longest I have ever sat in a theater (over 9 hours) and the way it was handled - I was happy and comfortable, the whole time.
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JamesPaganini
Rivendell
Jan 17 2015, 7:29pm
Post #2 of 49
(1097 views)
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Peter Jackson saying 30 minutes is just an estimate. It could be 45 mins we never know.
Not all those who wander are Lost
Darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jan 17 2015, 7:54pm
Post #3 of 49
(1050 views)
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I'm actually expecting around 25mins more...
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PB said that it was going to be around 25mins longer, PJ said 30.
I'm personally going to expect the smaller amount just to avoid disappointment. IMO that's plenty of time to put a 5 min funeral scene, couple of mins of Beorn fighting, 5 min prologue and Dain's coronation or some other sort of better resolved ending.
It's not the length, it's the content that matters.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jan 17 2015, 7:54pm)
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Imladris18
Lorien
Jan 17 2015, 7:55pm
Post #4 of 49
(1023 views)
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It really comes down to quality over quantity...
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But I tend to agree. I will be disappointed if it's less than 40min, especially for this last time. PJ could have very well just gave that as a low-end estimate. It's better to under-promise than over-promise and make everyone mad.
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Jan 17 2015, 7:59pm
Post #5 of 49
(995 views)
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Yeah, I think PJ originally over-promised with AUJ, and then we just ended up with 13 minutes.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 17 2015, 8:09pm
Post #6 of 49
(986 views)
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I think we've gotten a little spoiled by LotR. AUJ was only extended by 13 minutes, DoS by 25. If BotFA adds 30 minutes, that will be great.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 17 2015, 8:20pm
Post #7 of 49
(958 views)
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Given how the film has been truncated and what a lack of resolution there is, there needs to be 45 minutes of QUALITY character content. (I'll be very, very unhappy if gross content is added to this film, though if PJ is desperate to include it, it could go into the appendices.)
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brotherbeck
Rivendell
Jan 17 2015, 8:29pm
Post #8 of 49
(1004 views)
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...at all is most likely a good thing in my book, as I feel the film in general just needed more room to breathe, especially during the climax and immediate aftermath of the battle. This isn't a definite though, as any more time spent with Alfrid or Legolas to me would be a complete and utter waste. More than enough time is spent with those characters already.
In my humble opinion the film needs more of the dwarven company, more Dain, more Gandalf, more Bard, more Thranduil, more of the actual titular battle especially inside the ruins of Dale but also everything involving all armies toward the end of it, more of the Dol Guldor battle, more than an eight second cameo of Beorn, and especially more Bilbo. The filmmakers did do a good job of integrating Bilbo into the film, especially given that this is all a part of the book he isn't really involved in, but Martin Freeman is absolutely magical as Bilbo and this entire trilogy has simply not featured him nearly enough. Any more time with Matin Freeman's Bilbo, even if it is just a few seconds here and there, would be a huge imporvement to the film.
30 more minutes would be a great improvement if it meant 30 more minutes of the right stuff. Unfortunately, given what we have seen already, I think we can be pretty sure that however much extra time we get, at least some of it will be featuring Alfrid Lickspittle. That make me a little leary of the extra 30 minutes comment as I fear that will simply not be enough.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jan 17 2015, 8:36pm
Post #9 of 49
(967 views)
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...don't really depend on "disk capacity," although that's one factor.
The LotR EEs had 2 disks for the movie plus more for the features. The real issues involve time and money. A lot of time is required for selecting and processing the scenes to be added, particularly given that each frame involving sFx requires a lot of work by a lot of very highly skilled people, not to mention computer time. All of this is expensive, and a lot of the people involved are moving on to other projects.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Jan 17 2015, 9:01pm
Post #10 of 49
(960 views)
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PB said that it was going to be around 25mins longer, PJ said 30.
I'm personally going to expect the smaller amount just to avoid disappointment. IMO that's plenty of time to put a 5 min funeral scene, couple of mins of Beorn fighting, 5 min prologue and Dain's coronation or some other sort of better resolved ending.
It's not the length, it's the content that matters.
Don't get you hopes up for a prologue.
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moreorless
Gondor
Jan 17 2015, 9:02pm
Post #11 of 49
(938 views)
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I think we often overestimate how long action scenes take anyway..
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...at all is most likely a good thing in my book, as I feel the film in general just needed more room to breathe, especially during the climax and immediate aftermath of the battle. This isn't a definite though, as any more time spent with Alfrid or Legolas to me would be a complete and utter waste. More than enough time is spent with those characters already.
In my humble opinion the film needs more of the dwarven company, more Dain, more Gandalf, more Bard, more Thranduil, more of the actual titular battle especially inside the ruins of Dale but also everything involving all armies toward the end of it, more of the Dol Guldor battle, more than an eight second cameo of Beorn, and especially more Bilbo. The filmmakers did do a good job of integrating Bilbo into the film, especially given that this is all a part of the book he isn't really involved in, but Martin Freeman is absolutely magical as Bilbo and this entire trilogy has simply not featured him nearly enough. Any more time with Matin Freeman's Bilbo, even if it is just a few seconds here and there, would be a huge imporvement to the film.
30 more minutes would be a great improvement if it meant 30 more minutes of the right stuff. Unfortunately, given what we have seen already, I think we can be pretty sure that however much extra time we get, at least some of it will be featuring Alfrid Lickspittle. That make me a little leary of the extra 30 minutes comment as I fear that will simply not be enough.
I would tend to agree with you that the film would benefit more from adding quieter character moments than it would action but the latter does I would say take up considerably less time than people imagine, In the film as is for example my guess would be that prior to Ravenhill we probably don't get more than 15-20 mins of the battle.
When it comes to Alfird I would say it depends a lot on what scenes were talking about. I'd imagine him being killed off doesn't take that long in the heat of battle but elsewhere most of his scenes were actually focused on other characters so really more of him is actually likely to mean more Bard especially.
With Legolas I think we get more than enough battling BUT I would say that for the first time I see potential for good drama by going into more detail with him. The back story of the history of his father and mother could IMHO make for good cinema and I wouldn't mind hearing more of it.
My feeling is that this film will probably end up being the most "focused" in where it adds in extra material. Were as the first two Hobbits tended to add a little here and there I suspect we'll get quite large chunks dropped in at certain points with the rest of the film left as is.
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kiwifan
Rohan
Jan 17 2015, 9:15pm
Post #12 of 49
(896 views)
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Please not one second more of Alfrid Lickspittle!
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To my great dismay I read in the Hobbit Chronicles series book five (The Battle of the Five Armies: Art and Design) that there had been discussions and ideas about the possible death of this tiresome creature (my adjective) by getting him catapulted out of the ruins of Dale into the mouth of a giant troll, or something of the sort. Can't remember the bit exactly since it wasn't my book but borrowed from the city library, but it left a lasting feeling of horror in my mind.
And much as I liked Legolas in LotR and had no problem with the idea of his being in the 'Hobbit' films since after all he was alive during that time and Thranduil is his father, I can very well do without any more silly Leggy stunts! Or love triangle stuff.
'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jan 17 2015, 9:34pm
Post #13 of 49
(930 views)
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It just stops being a film at some point.
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And becomes a mammoth compilation of scenes.
It also seems to me, personally, very strange and arbitrary to say I want X more minutes. It's like ordering a pudding at dinner by weight.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Jan 17 2015, 9:47pm
Post #14 of 49
(876 views)
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A lot of time is required for selecting and processing the scenes to be added, particularly given that each frame involving sFx requires a lot of work by a lot of very highly skilled people, not to mention computer time. All of this is expensive, and a lot of the people involved are moving on to other projects.
I suppose I imagined scenes as being completed and being stitched together, just PJ in a dark room, with one or two others - plus all the sound effects and music have to be accounted for.
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Ilmatar
Rohan
Jan 17 2015, 9:49pm
Post #15 of 49
(886 views)
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It also seems to me, personally, very strange and arbitrary to say I want X more minutes. It's like ordering a pudding at dinner by weight.
It could be argued that while every ounce of pudding would taste the same, every minute of film would have a different flavor.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jan 17 2015, 9:53pm
Post #16 of 49
(862 views)
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So we would say we fancy certain tastes not 450g!
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brotherbeck
Rivendell
Jan 17 2015, 10:53pm
Post #18 of 49
(845 views)
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Spriggan, while I do understand what you are saying about just adding extra scene after extra scene not neccesarrily making a film better, I think in this particular case the scenes are needed. The first two films in the trilogy were both very long, and PJ as a filmmaker tends to take his sweet time in both individual scenes and sequences themselves and also in storylines over the course of the trilogy. You have to remember that over the course of the first two three hour films myriad storylines and plots were introduced and elaborated on while not a single one of them was resolved. All of the resolution was continually pushed off into the third film. Then at some point they decided that the third film should be fast-paced and tightly edited like a thriller. That was a baffling decision to me and I think the result is 3rd film that works pretty good as an action fantasy thriller but makes a dissapointing and ultimately poor conclusion to this trilogy. Those extra scenes are needed.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jan 17 2015, 11:53pm
Post #19 of 49
(774 views)
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I was really talking about the 6 hour prospect
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Or indeed the DOS EE discussions rather than specific scenes.
That said, a few thoughts spring to mind.
Firstly, I should say that I didn't have any great issues with the end of the film. It was clearly presented as Bilbo's perspective and we focus on Bilbo's personal experiences of the adventure - thus the storylines end as Bilbo leaves and their importance becomes defined in relation to him. I thought this worked rather well in the main, though I certainly hadn't anticipated it.
The second thought, which is really in two parts, is that I do think there is some distinction between resolutions and what happens to characters after the story has finished. Certainly, things like how the elves travelled home fall into the latter camp for me, whilst others are more arguable.
The other part of this thought would be that this distinction is particularly muddy in ME as we are used to the, it should be noted, very unusual presence of extensive notes and timelines in the texts. We can find out about the fates of almost every character (and often their descendants) if we root about in the small print. But this is not usually how stories work. The lives of the characters continue but the story, having been with them for a while, does not continue with them. In the main, that's just how it goes - we are there for the party but not for washing the glasses in the morning.
Finally, in terms of storylines, there are quite a few things which a number of posters seem to have decided were larger storylines than had been presented in AUJ and DOS, and lacked fulfilment in BOFA. However, I would argue that in a number of cases those decisions are really quite arbitrary. The elements were just as presented and the longer story suggestions were neither promised nor, in some instances, even suggested.
(This post was edited by Spriggan on Jan 17 2015, 11:56pm)
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Jan 18 2015, 1:07am
Post #20 of 49
(747 views)
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Let's just pray it's 30 min and not less... and I agree, I easily see 45/50 min of extra material. //
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Jan 18 2015, 1:09am
Post #21 of 49
(732 views)
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You just brought me back some bad memories.. //
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Jan 18 2015, 1:46am
Post #22 of 49
(745 views)
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Scenes may have been "shot"...
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...but most (given today's techniques) are green-screen. The effects that have to be added may be partly programmed already (backgrounds, creatures, etc.), but they need to be "painted" for each frame of the scene in question. Even location scenes need color grading and other work. The priority for doing this is pretty strictly determined by the editing decisions that have already been made for the theatrical release.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Jan 18 2015, 2:12am
Post #23 of 49
(728 views)
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30, 45 mins, 6 hrs or whatever
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It all comes down to quality not quantity. It's how that time is used that matters.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Jan 18 2015, 3:01am
Post #24 of 49
(720 views)
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With whatever length as long as it's good quality scenes. I fully expect them to be. I do so wish to see more Beorn, Thorin's Funeral, the Arkenstone and Orcrist. And Ori giving Bilbo the drawing. If I see those I will be overjoyed.
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
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patrickk
Rohan
Jan 18 2015, 3:26am
Post #25 of 49
(686 views)
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Remember Bilbo was unconscious for...
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...the battle in the book, PJ kept him awake for much much longer.
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