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Morthoron
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 1:45am
Post #76 of 114
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The film doesn't deserve any awards...
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Nonsensical and extraneous subplots, more loose ends than at a yarn factory, and the majority of the film a CGI blue screen mess. BoFA completely lacked both the charm of the book and the intense craftwork involved in the special effects of the LotR films, not to mention Jackson's garish sci-fi tastes and juvenile humor completely burying the wit of the original. All the great and memorable Tolkien lines used at every turn in the Oscar-winning RotK were overwritten in BoFA to make way for Jackson/Boyen's inane fan-fiction. Cringe-worthy slop like:
"Why does it hurt so much?"
"Because it was real."
No, Thranduil, it hurt so much because Peter Jackson botched The Hobbit. No awards for you.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
(This post was edited by Morthoron on Jan 16 2015, 1:46am)
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 4:41am
Post #77 of 114
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When LOTR was nominated for best film three years in a row? When it won best picture? Or was that BS too?
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jtarkey
Rohan
Jan 16 2015, 4:51am
Post #78 of 114
(465 views)
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For speaking the truth.
Its not hard to see that these films aren't Oscar worthy, whether you're a fan of them or not.
This isn't a "snub". I'm actually surprised it earned a nomination at all.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 4:53am
Post #79 of 114
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I mean that honestly. Taking The Hobbit out of the equation, I've truly found the Oscars to be pretty worthless the vast majority of the time, particularly in the years following RotK's sweep (which I believe shell-shocked the Academy).
At the time, I was young (and naive) enough to believe that the Oscar recognition was actually a result of the quality of the films. Rather, it was the result of one heck of a campaign on New Line's part.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 4:56am
Post #80 of 114
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Or didn't deserve it? I'm not sure I understand.
(This post was edited by Bishop on Jan 16 2015, 4:56am)
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 4:58am
Post #81 of 114
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It certainly deserved it, in my opinion.
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But that's not why it won.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jan 16 2015, 5:00am)
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 5:09am
Post #82 of 114
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I think it deserved it, but politically it was most likely awarded for the entirety of Jackson's accomplishments with the films. This is not a bad thing, as often there are so many people doing such extraordinary things it takes a while for people to get their dues. You always have to make room for the new guy and respect the old guy. But you describe the academy award system as virtually worthless. Can you give some examples of that in terms of unwarranted accolades?
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 5:12am
Post #83 of 114
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But that would be completely subjective. My point is that Academy Awards are bestowed because of well-run Oscar campaigns, not because the film or person "deserves" it.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jan 16 2015, 5:12am)
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 5:15am
Post #84 of 114
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Unless it's Peter Jackson and LOTR.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 5:19am
Post #85 of 114
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The fact that I feel that LotR deserved the award is irrelevant. It won because it had a spectacular Oscar campaign orchestrated by New Line Cinema. The same goes for any year and any movie.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Jan 16 2015, 5:21am
Post #86 of 114
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Harry Potter was the most snubbed too so there is plenty of company
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http://www.reuters.com/...dUSBRE82T0UL20120330
"....failure to win a single Academy Award in eight attempts ..."I think a lot of us look fairly wryly at the politics of the American Academy (of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences), of which I am a member," said John Richardson, special effects supervisor on the Harry Potter movies.."
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Jan 16 2015, 5:25am)
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 5:26am
Post #87 of 114
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So Jackson and LOTR did deserve it, but that's not why it won?
So sometimes people do deserve it? But that's not why they're nominated? If I'm understanding correctly, there's a cross section of films that actually deserve it but are only awarded for irrelevant/nefarious political reasons, not because they actually deserve it. What percentage are the films that deserve it I wonder to films that don't deserve it? 
(This post was edited by Bishop on Jan 16 2015, 5:31am)
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tsmith675
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 5:45am
Post #88 of 114
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I wouldn't say the academy awards are worthless; they give needed recognition to the hard work of those involved in making films. But it's that people tend to use Oscar wins and nominations as a guide to whether a film is good or not. Just because a film wins best picture doesn't mean it's the best movie of the year. People seem to want to judge the quality of a film based on awards. But the only person that can decide what the best film of the year is to you is yourself.
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 6:01am
Post #89 of 114
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To say that it's 100% subjective
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is to say that we have no basis for judging anything about the medium. This is patently not true.
Also:
But it's that people tend to use Oscar wins and nominations as a guide to whether a film is good or not
In reality I would be hard pressed to find anyone who bases their judgement of a film entirely on the academy awards. If there is agreement it's usually because the film is some kind of phenomenon that reaches people in a certain way, or pushes some boundary, not because they see it won best picture and then decide it's good.
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Arannir
Valinor
Jan 16 2015, 8:53am
Post #90 of 114
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Imho the Academy can occasionaly get it horribly wrong (though who judges that?) and may indeed be too depended on campaigns.
However, films can create a momentum that often only starts a Oscar campaign (Boyhood).
Or they even change the rules: happened after many felt "Dark Knight" deserved a nomination - the Academy opened up the number of BP nominees.
The Academy does react to criticism and evolves, it is not the mob.
And movies can create buzz and momentum if they are good enough. For LotR I talked to so many people who simply accepted that these were Oscar baiting movies... almost nobody who has an interest in film-making I know thinks like this about TH movies.
Some like them, some don't - but most agree that this year and the two before the competition was either more deserving or that TH was even not deserving.
Of course, one can debate over 1-3 technical categories. whether one might have been better than the other or not. It is always like this - categories can get very crowded.
But for the "big ones" I do not see many nominations happening even if it were not for campaigns and the Academy. A huge amount of people (several on these boards as well) simply do not think TH are this kind of movies. TH does not only lose out on nominations at the Oscars - but at most bigger Awards, even those were "the people" are allowed to vote.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jan 16 2015, 8:56am)
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Jan 16 2015, 12:48pm
Post #91 of 114
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I liked those scenes as well, but I think they could have been better. I wanted Smaug to talk to Bard, to taunt him, but in the movie his dialouge was not that interesting. Thorin in the gold hall was OK but not amazing. The same goes for the scene on the frozen lake. So yes, we have different favourite scenes and that is OK 
The movie looks beautiful, I agree with that, but the CGI is way too heavy when it shouldn't be. I can't believe they used it on Dain to make him look younger. I am OK with the CGI on the elves and Saruman, but on Dain it just tipped it over the edge for me. Of course the CGI is good for the most part, and I do think the movie deserves an academy award for VFX just because Smaug looks so amazing.
I am happy to hear that you think the movie is great! I think it is just fine, but like you said, I too wanted the resolution that I hope the EE will bring. When the EE comes out I hope I will be able to say: The movie is great! 
(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Jan 16 2015, 12:50pm)
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 16 2015, 3:06pm
Post #92 of 114
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I didn't even notice CGI on Dain! I thought he looked OK, but that there wasn't enough on him.
Yes, let's hope for the right stuff on the EE! I think this film needs it much more than even DoS did.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 3:25pm
Post #93 of 114
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Just because film is subjective
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Doesn't mean that there's no basis for judging the medium. You're wrong there. It is 100% subjective. There are certain aspects that make a film good, and I would say there are a few films that are perfect on a technical level. But there people that still hate those movies. Why is that unless film is completely subjective?
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 3:37pm
Post #94 of 114
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It's art. I've said 1000 times on this board I wouldn't give the Mona Lisa squat as an award for being a great piece of art. Can't stand it. But it's highly popular and everyone says it's a masterpiece. Okay. I still don't like it. Art is subjective to me. The Oscars are absolutely political to a degree. They don't release a vote tally, they don't tell you the basis on which they do or don't make a decision (unlike other parts of society, like the Baseball Hall of Fame for instance where statistics and actual facts are used). The reason is it's art. AMPAS is composed of over 75% white males and the Academy itself has 6,000 members, all secret and all who are "invited" by the board to join. It's a select group of people in the industry bottom line. I've never bought the idea that they are somehow and independent and somehow rubber stamp of quality for movies.
I will give you that they are popular and a money maker for the industry. That's all they are. They are a promotion for Hollywood and the industry and they do work .Other than that to me George C. Scott was right. It's a meat parade.
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
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Bishop
Gondor
Jan 16 2015, 3:51pm
Post #95 of 114
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Yeah, everything in the universe is subjective if that' what we're talking about
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So then yes, you agree that on some level the quality of a film can be judged. Removing personal likes or dislikes of something it is not difficult to see why many, if not most films that are awarded high accolades are done so for these qualities. While I agree that there are politics involved I would hardly call the academy awards worthless. But I was asking a serious question about the percentages of what films deserve to win (and do so for political reasons) versus films that do not deserve it and do win. Was it just LOTR %?
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 4:17pm
Post #96 of 114
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Agree 100%.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Nolane
Bree
Jan 16 2015, 6:30pm
Post #97 of 114
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Easily the worst movie of the year. Its 2 hours and 45 minutes of pure torture. And they say the fist Hobbit movie is too long! At least things actually happened in AUJ.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 7:02pm
Post #98 of 114
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Hardly. they are a moneymaker. But art itself is subjective unlike many other things in society. We can tally the Baseball hall of Fame of the Football Hall of Fame because you can point to objective data to quantify their inclusion or exclusion. But the intrinsic worth of having award glad handing over art is questionable at best to my thinking. You are right though I guess it's worthwhile to the people that are part of that industry in some fashion. If it were me, I'd be like Brando and Scott and eschew the awards altogether. I admit I'm jaded. I despise all that they are. It's my own bias. I admit.
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
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jtarkey
Rohan
Jan 16 2015, 7:04pm
Post #99 of 114
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Boyhood is a time capsule of the pas decade. An astonishing achievement that deserves all the awards its gotten/is going to get.
None of The Hobbit films even come close to the quality and attention to detail that is Boyhood.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"
^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 7:09pm
Post #100 of 114
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I don't agree with Nolane about the film, but it's also not one that I'll likely revisit again anytime soon (if ever). I can appreciate the work that went into it and rarity of such a project. But it's just not one of those that I will watch again and again over the years.
The Hobbit is.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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Funny
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