|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jan 15 2015, 6:37pm
Post #51 of 114
(639 views)
Shortcut
|
|
"a great movie, better than all of the movies they nominated for Best Picture"
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Have you seen all eight of those? I've only seen The Grand Budapest Hotel, which I thought just OK, and The Imitation Game, which I felt to be good but not great, but both of them were, for this viewer, far superior to the third Hobbit movie.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 15 2015, 6:38pm
Post #52 of 114
(604 views)
Shortcut
|
…the 'academy' couldn't ignore the LotR films because they were absolutely everywhere (in terms of the marketing), and were the first fantasy films to be so hugely successful. The 'academy' simply couldn't ignore them – and I did think the acknowledgement was grudgingly given.
It's probable that the voters didn't even bother to see the film.
Still, the Visual Effects Society nominated BoFA for four awards, as just posted on the front page of this site (if that is what it is called)! 
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 15 2015, 7:35pm)
|
|
|
tsmith675
Gondor
Jan 15 2015, 6:48pm
Post #53 of 114
(594 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Personally, I've seen 4 of the 8.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
And all four are worthy of being best picture nominees. I've seen Whiplash, Birdman, Boyhood and The Grand Budapest Hotel. I'm going to see American Sniper this weekend and I'll see the Imitation Game sooner or later. But the four I've seen are worthy best picture candidates. Boyhood will be the one to win, but I liked both Birdman and Whiplash more than Boyhood.
|
|
|
burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 6:59pm
Post #54 of 114
(572 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think Grand Budapest deserved it
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Grand Budapest Hotel was witty, charming and stylish- I loved it. Am quite surprised that it has been recognised, but more that the Oscars don't usually go for comedies rather than the quality of the film. It may also have an element of recognising Anderson's consistently original style over many years, like you say.
There are a few weird nominations though. The Imitation Game for example is a decent biopic with good lead, but no way deserving of so many nominations.
|
|
|
burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 7:02pm
Post #55 of 114
(568 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Interstellar is sci-fi, and Grand Budapest & Birdman have elements of fantasy
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I think the problem is that the Hobbit trilogy is a series of franchise films, and they failed to step out of LotR long shadow.
|
|
|
Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Jan 15 2015, 7:03pm
Post #56 of 114
(583 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Only two are on my own top ten list.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Those being The Grand Budapest Hotel and The Imitation Game. That's not to say anything against the other nominees - it's just a matter of taste.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
|
|
|
burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 7:10pm
Post #57 of 114
(558 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Agreed- Interstellar was stunning
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Some of the sequences in Interstellar were breathtaking- the tidal wave scene, passing through the worm hole. And also had fantastic music- well deserved nomination.
But Captain America and X-Men for VFX?? I didn't like any of the Hobbit films, but I still think that's pretty shocking to not get a VFX nomination
|
|
|
glor
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 7:13pm
Post #58 of 114
(563 views)
Shortcut
|
And what was once a celebration and a marketing tool is now just a marketing tool.
Cinema in the 21st century competing as it is with other forms of entertainment media from video games to the post Wire download on demand quality TV drama. In doing so it has created a film market where he big blockbusters roll in the money and, traditional scripted drama for adults struggles to make it's mark in the multiplexes.
In order to rectify this the Oscars and most of the major film awards seem to have made a decision, to bring those traditional film dramas to the fore, to promote them so that they make it in the multiplexes and the isles of the supermarket dvd charts.
Nothing wrong with this per se, films by and large do not get made without money and, if it is a way in which drama can profit and find a platform away from the bombardment of superheroes and sequels that fill our cinemas.
However, I find it dull and predictable and sometimes hypocritical because genre has become everything.
I cannot help but think that if RAs performance had been a ruler in an historical epic rather than a, dwarf king in a fantasy ' franchise' he would have made it onto the supporting actor nominations.
No mascara can survive BOTFA
|
|
|
dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 15 2015, 7:22pm
Post #59 of 114
(578 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think the awards editor of Variety had it right....
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
... in the article that was linked on these pages a while ago. I've just tried to find the original post with the link and can't, but he predicted that BotFA wouldn't do well in award nominations because Return of the King swept the board, so the perception would be that Peter Jackson had done well enough and didn't need more awards.It's unjust but it makes sense to me and would go some way to explaining the inexpllicable silence on The Hobbit. I'm biased, of course, so anything I say about the awards I'd give the film isn't objective and I wouldn't claim that it is, but I'm assuming that the awards editor of Variety knows a whole lot more about both the awards themselves and the films in contention than I do, so when he says this I take his word for it. The Hobbit has lost out because of the perception that it's more of the same.
(This post was edited by dormouse on Jan 15 2015, 7:25pm)
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 15 2015, 7:30pm
Post #60 of 114
(550 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yes, I think that is true, Dormouse
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
There's also the fact that PJ is his own man and not part of the self-serving Hollywood clique, made up of the same old people. He doesn't kow-tow to anyone, but just goes his own way (while being pragmatic as to what he can do in his films). I really admire him for his strong personality and independent thinking (not to mention his creativity).
|
|
|
sharku
Rivendell
Jan 15 2015, 7:52pm
Post #61 of 114
(520 views)
Shortcut
|
I seriously do believe that ROTK will be the last movie of its kind to ever win the Best Picture award until this generation of old farts is replaced.
I wouldn't hold your breath....they'll find all new old farts to replace them with.
(This post was edited by sharku on Jan 15 2015, 7:52pm)
|
|
|
burrahobbit
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 7:54pm
Post #62 of 114
(527 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The directors & films that are nominated are also very independent
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Richard Linklater, Wes Andersen, Alejandro Inarrito... all very independent and creative, and hardly part of a Hollywood clique.
The Hobbit films have been made as LotR franchise films, consciously adapted and promoted as more of the same, and so were always going to struggle for Oscar recognition. Add on the fact that the critical reception of the movies has been mixed (especially for BoTFA), then that explains what's happened.
Desolation of Smaug was the best of the three I think, and was rightly given some nominations.
|
|
|
sharku
Rivendell
Jan 15 2015, 8:06pm
Post #63 of 114
(520 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yearn not for Oscar recognition
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"But also he did not reckon with the power that Oscar gold has upon which a dragon has long brooded, nor with dwarvish hearts. Long hours in the past days Thorin had spent in the treasury, and the lust of it was heavy on him."
There is a sickness that lies upon those Oscars, and an unwise lust of them will drive those who seek them mad.
(This post was edited by sharku on Jan 15 2015, 8:06pm)
|
|
|
Arannir
Valinor
Jan 15 2015, 8:58pm
Post #64 of 114
(478 views)
Shortcut
|
I have seen several of the nominees and all are far better movies than BotFA.
Once a franchise movie is seen as just that, a franchise flick, it will be hard to score nominations, especially when even technical stuff is pretty crowded.
It is not just the Academy who didn't deem this movie award worthy.
As always there are some choices that I also find questionable. But by and large the competetion has simply been stronger than BotFA. Imho (but certainly not just imho... The critical reception as well as the harsh reactions from several movie geeks all over the internet - not just haters - speaks for itself).
So I don't believe in some of the Hollywood conspiracy theory.
For that way too many not very Hollywoody people have been nominated.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jan 15 2015, 9:12pm
Post #65 of 114
(486 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Certainly few of my favorite films won Oscars.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Reviewing a list I posted five years ago...
1. Pather Panchali (S. Ray '55)
2. A Man Escaped (R. Bresson '56)
3. Yojimbo (A. Kurosawa '61)
4. The Four Hundred Blows (F. Truffaut '59)
5. The Third Man (C. Reed '49)
6. Notorious (A. Hitchcock '46)
7. Potemkin (S. Eisenstein '25)
8. And Life Goes On (A. Kiarostami '91)
9. City Lights (C. Chaplin '31)
10. The Son’s Room (N. Moretti '01)
11. Early Summer (Y. Ozu '51)
12. Schindler’s List (S. Spielberg '93) **
13. Stagecoach (J. Ford '39) *
14. Lawrence of Arabia (D. Lean '62) **
15. The White Sheik (F. Fellini '50)
16. Duck Soup (L. McCarey '33)
17. M (F. Lang '31)
18. Shall We Dance? (M. Suo '96)
19. The Maltese Falcon (J. Huston '41) *
20. My Love Has Been Burning (K. Mizoguchi '49)
21. Local Hero (B. Forsyth '83)
22. The Sixth Sense (M. Shyamalan '99) *
23. The Crying Game (N. Jordan '92) *
24. Chinatown (R. Polanski '74) *
25. A Christmas Carol (C. Donner '84)
...I see that only two films (which I've marked with double asterisks) won Best Picture, and only another five (marked with single asterisks) were nominated for that award.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
|
|
|
NecromancerRising
Gondor
Jan 15 2015, 9:15pm
Post #66 of 114
(460 views)
Shortcut
|
|
My favourite film of your list
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
is "The Crying Game" by Neil Jordan. What a masterpiece!
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
|
|
|
Dcole4
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 9:32pm
Post #67 of 114
(445 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The real shame here (not that it wasn't nominated)...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The real shame in it not getting a VFX nomination is that we likely won't get to see much of their VFX reel like the one from DOS. It was very revealing, and showed us a couple glimpses of Thrain and the original Bolg. It would have been incredible to see the BOTFA one, which undoubtedly would have shown pre-CGI Dain among a great deal of other nuggets.
|
|
|
Bernhardina
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 9:36pm
Post #68 of 114
(467 views)
Shortcut
|
In a way I think it is only natural that the worst movie in the trilogy should get the least Oscar nominations but... I can't help but to think that the academy just ignore amazing costume, make up, visual effects, fantastic music and cinematography.
But I guess BOTFA was just another action movie. There isn't really anything innovative about the movie, unfortunately. It has all been done before, and it got all the Oscars it deserved back then.
But yeah, feeling down of course 
|
|
|
Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Jan 15 2015, 9:46pm
Post #69 of 114
(421 views)
Shortcut
|
I agree that it is difficult to say that Oscars are arbiters of taste for LOTR but have no merit when it comes to TH. However, I wouldn't say that the only two categories of films are those which receive Oscar nominations and "bad" films!
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 15 2015, 10:12pm
Post #70 of 114
(431 views)
Shortcut
|
And the fact that it has not been nominated for oscars certainly won't convince me. I prefer to judge films according to what I get out of them – and it is an amazing film as far as I'm concerned, both visually and as far as the acting is concerned.
I also don't think it has 'all been done before' – there is much innovation in BoFA that has not been 'done before'.
But I guess BOTFA was just another action movie. There isn't really anything innovative about the movie, unfortunately. It has all been done before, and it got all the Oscars it deserved back then.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jan 15 2015, 10:13pm)
|
|
|
Bernhardina
Rohan
Jan 15 2015, 10:49pm
Post #71 of 114
(406 views)
Shortcut
|
I don't think BotFA is as innovative as the first and second films of the trilogy. It looked like LOTR mixed with bad taste (like in bad taste - not the movie "Bad taste") and everything I would call close to innovative was kind of cringe worthy  like the messed up trolls with no arms or legs or the one with a tiny arm, it just looked odd and I felt really uncomfortable watching it. The only times I felt I was watching an AMAZING movie was:
1) Dol Guldur scene with the White Council
2) Dain arriving, the battle begins
3) The character moments between Bilbo and Thorin
Everything else was just meh in my opinion. I do love the movies and I think they should have gotten academy nominations and awards. I don't think the third one was as strong as the others though 
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 15 2015, 11:47pm
Post #72 of 114
(389 views)
Shortcut
|
Here again I disagree. I thought the following scenes, for example, were extraordinarily innovative visually:
1. The entire Smaug sequence (which reminded me of fires in medieval cities and towns, like the Great Fire of London in 1666).
2. Thorin in the gold hall.
3. Thorin on the ice and the way that whole scene looked, with the swaying ice.
Funnily enough, though I liked your scenes 1 and 2, I was not bowled over by them like I was by the above three – different horses for different courses, as they say.
My sister, a fussy, very experienced artist, saw the film with me for the first time (for her) last week, and halfway through it her comment was, 'I say, these visuals are rather good, aren't they.' That's some praise from her! My brother-in-law (also an artist), who doesn't like fantasy, or know the ME books (unlike my sister), also thought this film was very good indeed.
The film additionally had a huge emotional effect on me – especially the scenes with Thorin and Bilbo.
So no 'meh' from me, I'm afraid. It's the best film in the sequence as far as I'm concerned (followed by AUJ). It may even be the best of all the ME films, along with FotR, though I think the two trilogies should not be compared. They are very different from each other in tone, and things have moved on considerably when it comes to visuals since 13 years ago.
P.S. One can find endless nits to pick with this film as with any other, but for me the good things about it far outweigh the bad ones. The worst thing about it for me is that it is truncated too much towards the end, so there is no resolution for characters such as Thranduil/gems, Thorin funeral/Arkenstone, Radagast, Bard, and most of all Beorn – who I would like to see far more of. I hope the EE will remedy this, but would have liked to have seen these things resolved in the cinema version.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jan 15 2015, 11:52pm)
|
|
|
Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Jan 15 2015, 11:48pm
Post #73 of 114
(384 views)
Shortcut
|
I haven't watched the Oscars in 20 or 30 years and I don't intend to start anytime soon. I don't get the excitement over awards shows. I guess if I was in the industry I'd be disppointed but come on, who gives a rip about who is "awarded" something.
I guess it would have been nice for them all but hey it still made a chunk of change at the box office and a lot of people enjoyed it...good enough for me.
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
|
|
|
Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Jan 16 2015, 12:31am
Post #74 of 114
(364 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Oscars prove nothing of the sort
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I was there in 2003 for those. I could give a rip about them then and now. All it means is they are popular with the Acadamy members. Tha'ts it. It has nothing to do with good or bad. I agree though you can't say they were proof of greatness then and not now.
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
|
|
|
glor
Rohan
Jan 16 2015, 1:43am
Post #75 of 114
(347 views)
Shortcut
|
|
You may have seen several but have the Academy voters?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I have seen several of the nominees and all are far better movies than BotFA.
I have seen comments from academy members with a public profile, most notably from Meryl Streep and Ian McKellan to the effect that a significant proportion of those voting haven't seen the films they are voting for !
No mascara can survive BOTFA
|
|
|
|
|
I think it is more that
[
