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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 9 2015, 5:50pm
Post #1 of 77
(2599 views)
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I thought it would be better if I posted this here, since I'm mostly speaking for myself
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I would really like to talk about the situation with the Thranduil Appreciation threads because I am greatly saddened by what has happened. I even had to have myself a little cry over it after reading the most recent posts there, because it basically looks like everyone has left the thread and may very well not come back to the thread, or to the TORn messageboards. I know that if they should choose not to come back, that's their decision but again, I would be greatly saddened if that was the case because generally speaking, at least with the four or five original Thralls who kept the early threads going, we all got along so well and had some wonderful, deep, rational discussions of Thranduil and the movies.
And discussion DID happen quite frequently in amongst all the gushing, and as far as I can remember, I think we did our best to keep those discussion within the realm of the Hobbit or LOTR movies and Thranduil's role in them. I will admit, that with the most recent two or three threads, the gushing did seem to increase tenfold, but I guess that was because of the release of BotFA and the new participants. I really didn't have time to read most of the gushing posts so I won't say much about them.
I feel I do need to say...and I am only speaking for myself here, I certainly can't speak for anyone else...but I am completely baffled at the recent turn of events in those threads. I'm even "freaking out" about it a little, and have been going through my own posts and collection of pictures etc, on my computer that I have posted in those threads, to be sure that I haven't unintentionally broken a rule or posted or kept an illegal pic or anything like that. As far as I have found, I don't think I did any of those things, but I'm still feeling quite a bit of stress thinking about it.
With that in mind, basically, I would be greatly appreciative if I could get a better understanding from the Moderators and/or anyone else who frequents Feedback, of what happened in these recent TA threads because it all seemed to go downhill so fast and I've never had time to read all of the posts in any of the TA threads, much less this one and I'm so confused right now.
The thing that baffles me the most about all of it is that, unless I'm totally mistaken, it sounds like there were complaints about the TA threads going on behind the scenes, and as I said before, I can only speak for myself, but I had absolutely no idea that anyone had a problem with them, and I quite frequently read the other threads on the Hobbit board and the other TORn boards, even if I don't always respond to them, and I didn't see anything that would have indicated to me that people were upset. As was stated by other posters in the most recent TA thread, we've mostly gotten replies in the TA threads from other TORn members and Mods, who all seemed to be enjoying these threads.
The one person who openly seemed to "not like" them and said something of course had a right to feel that way, and I personally didn't have a problem with that person's posts because I honestly thought it was just friendly teasing and I laughed it off and moved on. Otherwise, if there have actually been complaints, again, I am baffled beyond beliefe because I had absolutely no idea, and had I known...I don't know...I guess I would have suggested a change of some sort because I'd never intentionally want to bother or offend or irritate anyone. Basically, I feel like I've been completely in the dark and I'm finding this whole situation very upsetting.
When it comes down to it, if the TA threads should end, then it is what it is and I can't do anything about it. I'm not sure that they'd be the same after this anyway. I will say that I deeply regret that they had to end like this, because they were so much fun. But like I said, I'd really like to talk about it and get a better understanding of what happened for the sake of my own peace of mind and also, maybe we can work it out so that stuff like this doesn't have to happen on TORn again and mar what is otherwise a fun place full of fun and wonderful people.
Erm...I'm really sorry if this post is too rambly, but if nothing else, to me, talking about this situation feels way better than sitting around being upset about it, and wondering what happens next, and I thought given the nature of my post it would be best to talk about it here in Feedback.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jan 9 2015, 6:04pm
Post #2 of 77
(2067 views)
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This is probably better suited here then:
[In reply to]
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When the Character Elimination Game got too much for the forum, both in terms of overloading the server (we frequently went over 700 posts if I remember rightly), and we were annoying people, it was suggested to us that we took it to another platform. So we started up our own forum (it's free!) dedicated to the game.
It appears to me that the majority of TA posts are on Thranduil fan art. As an alternative to setting up your own forum, you could re-aim the TA thread for the audience you are aiming for (and the board you are posting on). Perhaps you could have a regular Thranduil Fan Art thread on the Fan Art board. That will remove problems of remaining on topic here. You could then also have a semi-regular General Movie Thranduil thread on this board to talk exclusively about the Elvenking. Two different threads, two different topics and two different audiences/interests. The fan art thread would then receive the most activity without frustrating anyone in the movie board. Is that a good compromise?
I think there has just been a series of unfortunate mod interventions, one after the other. We've all had our wrists slapped by the mods, but we move on. This reminds me of the saying: "Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person gets sick."
(P.S Please do not interpret any of the above as this is what you should do. )
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jan 9 2015, 6:11pm)
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 9 2015, 6:31pm
Post #3 of 77
(2042 views)
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Oopsie, I already replied to you in the TA thread
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Oh well. Here's what I said so you don't have to go find it again.
Like I said there, I'd love to move on and work this out so that everyone's happy and following the rules, but I can't appreciate Thranduil all by myself.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 9 2015, 6:58pm
Post #4 of 77
(2050 views)
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I'm baffled rather than upset myself, to see such hostile criticism directed at the 'Thranduil appreciation' threads – it seems out of nowhere, because as you rightly pointed out, there was no hint of this until that 'Anti-Thranduil' thread appeared. I'm also sure that had anyone mentioned their issues with these threads before, the posters would have fixed whatever the problem was – they all seem like intelligent people, who can read (and write) coherently.
While I didn't often (if at all) contribute to these threads, I did look in on them and found them witty and full of laughs – plus some good discussions about the character. They were a great relief to some of the rather depressing 'downer' threads. So I have no idea why anyone would object to them, especially as they can easily be ignored if one doesn't want to read them.
It is indeed a great shame if these threads have been killed off and several great people have been driven away from the forums.
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Adrianna
Lorien
Jan 9 2015, 7:14pm
Post #5 of 77
(2011 views)
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I'm only somewhat of a newbie and was clearly upset at what was said but I don't want the TA thread to end.
I agee suggestions or advice should have been given if it had not already been given in the first place. Maybe it would have not gotten out of hand.
But I'm ready to move from this!
Let's see what we can come up with.
"I did free him. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders."
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jan 9 2015, 7:27pm
Post #6 of 77
(1998 views)
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Unless I missed it during one of my many busy times in this past year where I didn't have time to Log into TORn for more than five minutes, much less check the TA threads, nobody said we were annoying them OR suggested that we needed to take this to another platform.
That is what happened to the game thread, I didn't really want to suggest it also applied to TA topics. Without doing a poll of TORn users, I can't answer who it annoys. As the mods have highlighted, there may been exchanges over PM rather than publicly in the Feedback board. I can give you my opinion, but I fear that it would go (far) beyond the point of this thread.
Otherwise, yes, I think your suggestion is a good compromise ...
Until you've had more feedback here, I think a Fan Art TA might be worth a test drive (see mod suggestions/replies first!). But such a thread might not work; it might not attract anyone or it might just move disinterest in the topic from one board to another.
and I'd be ridiculously happy to forget this and move on in a manner that is in line with the TORn ToS and allow everyone to have fun again.
I'm having difficulty understanding the reaction within the TA threads, if I am honest. As an outsider, the reactions have been melodramatic (sorry, no nice way to put it). It's a public forum. Stay within the TOS, have fun, and get on with it.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jan 9 2015, 7:40pm)
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 9 2015, 7:28pm
Post #7 of 77
(1996 views)
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Thank you for all your understanding and kindness, Glorfindela
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I'm feeling a little better now that I've started this thread.
I, too, am baffled beyond belief about all this, and honestly, I just wish someone, somewhere would have told us there was a problem sooner so it wouldn't have had to come to this. Now I just hope everyone's willing to talk things out so we can come to an understanding, work out a better way to move forward, and put this all behind us.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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Hengist
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 9 2015, 7:34pm
Post #8 of 77
(2122 views)
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Well this is how to make a drama out of - well not much really
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So what have the mods actually asked the TA thread to do
Not post copyright protected images
Not break the PG level posting rules
Not break our no swearing rules
and not break the no attacks on other posters rule.
In other words not break the ToS.
Now the problem is that maybe we as mods have let you get away with increasing violations of those rules - speaking for myself I never read those threads very carefully as they were lets say not to my taste. Although having now read them a few problems have arisen this week.
Well theres the copyright issue - thats a big one but to be fair you all have tried to change that since it was pointed out.
Breaking the PG rules - some of you needed reminding of that this week - some of those posts were getting weird.
For me the biggest issue was the response to the anti thread - which was clearly meant in a light hearted way (as some of you noticed) . Sadly some of the responses went too far - calling people haters and trolls - really? Thats not acceptable. The responses started off in normal Torn lightheartedness but eventually there was a clear ganging up "us vs them" vibe coming out of the responses that we as mods cant let go.
That obviously attracted mod attention and we were a little alarmed at what we saw. So some slightly less fluffy terms were used to get you all to take notice but its sad that at the first hint of criticism or reprimand we get such an overly dramatic reaction.
We havent banned the threads although we might suggest changes to smooth things out for the future.
If everyone could stop having an attack of the vapours and going overboard on this it would help to 
" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 9 2015, 7:52pm
Post #9 of 77
(1968 views)
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Sorry, guess I didn't word that very well. I was agreeing with you.
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and I'd be ridiculously happy to forget this and move on in a manner that is in line with the TORn ToS and allow everyone to have fun again
I'm having difficulty understanding the reaction, if I am honest. It's a public forum. Stay within the TOS, have fun, and get on with it.
Right now though, I'm happy to take your suggestion and wait to see what feedback I get from the Mods and other TORn members, so the same mistakes don't get made again.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 9 2015, 8:02pm
Post #10 of 77
(1971 views)
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Thank you, Hengist. This is extremely helpful!
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This is what I thought was going on, and I really appreciate the clarification. Hopefully the others will see this too and the drama can finally come to an end.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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On_the_partyelk
Lorien
Jan 9 2015, 9:24pm
Post #11 of 77
(1953 views)
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I just wanted to throw in one or two things.
I'm also pretty much a newbie and of course not everything works right away (I hardly doubt that can be categorized as 'purposely violating rules'), but as soon as things were pointed out -nothing unofficial and watch your language- these things stopped, but what didn't sit right with me was simply how one or two mods talked. I understand you guys have to set a line 'until here and no further' and that you have to be stern, still, some things said were out of line (and not just in a [to quote you] "some slightly less fluffy terms" kind of way) and that saddened me (and not only me as the latest comments in the current Thranduil appreciation thread shows).
As I said, I get you need to make sure things aren't getting 'of hand', but calling people arrogant (to mention just one thing) is a thing I find NOT necessarry to say, especially since IMO it's VERY obvious people are everything but arrogant and simply joyful and proud of this kind of long-lasting-series on this board. That's a thing that got, if you ask me, misinterpreted. 
That's all I wanted to say to that.
And now back to normal, having nice talks, in whatever thread, about whatever topic, and less drama!
The fortunes of the world will rise and fall, but here in this kingdom we will endure!
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 9 2015, 9:28pm
Post #12 of 77
(1945 views)
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I was surprised by the reaction when I warned everyone about posting illegal content. Instead of agreeing, I got a fair bit of push-back and excuses and justifications. Posting illegal content is non-negotiable, and I would expect members of the forums to accept the admin's suggestions and comply. I posted the warning as soon as we were aware it had occurred, and as I have said twice in that thread, and will say again, we had not been watching the thread as closely as we should, which is why some of the violations might have occurred over time. It's not that we suddenly decided to stop the copyright violations - we weren't aware they had happened. We will watch more closely going forward.
We have not asked participants to do any more than we ask other forum members and it's disappointing that some of them have chosen to leave instead of modifying their behavior to stay within our Terms of Service.
We have a large, diverse community here, and we will never have universal agreement. The Anti-Thranduil thread is as welcome as the Thranduil Appreciation threads, as long as they stay within our Terms of Service. We all need to co-exist with people who don't agree with us, and may express their disageement in a way we don't like.
Just as you might be baffled at the recent turn of events, I'm baffled why people are so upset. You should focus on what you enjoy, regardless of what someone else might think about what you post, or what they might say about it. Why do you care so much that someone doesn't like Thranduil as much as you and says so in a different thread?
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Adrianna
Lorien
Jan 9 2015, 9:56pm
Post #13 of 77
(1915 views)
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About the mod coming on the threads if we were not following the rules. I might have even broken it by posting some images by myself and I'm a newbie.
The only thing that I was upset about was the simple fact because a mod stated about not having knowledge about other subjects or the website itself because people only post to one thread. I didn't care for that because maybe i was not interested in posting into multiple threads. That does not mean i no knowledge of what the other threads are saying I'm just not interested.
But it's done and over with. I would like to move on.
"I did free him. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders."
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 9 2015, 9:58pm
Post #14 of 77
(1933 views)
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I'm not sure whether they did react badly to the copyright issue at all
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In fact, from memory, they were very polite in their responses to your statements on the issue of copyright violations.
It was more a reaction to what Silverlode said: 'the majority of regulars on this board have been asked to put up with your 35-part monster thread over a very long period of time'. This was really quite hurtful (not to me, because I haven't participated very much in these threads, but I can see why others are upset). This was the first time I'd heard that anyone had had to 'put up' with these threads, which implied that they were somehow resented. Had someone politely told the posters this before, they would have done whatever needed to be done to not irk those 'others'. As it is, though, the statement came out of the blue and was unpleasant to read.
Now, the OP of the 'anti' thread said something that I believe was in jest (although to be fair it is very hard to know because of the way his posts are styled, and the whole post is rather ambiguous). Some people who haven't been on these boards for very long did, however, take it personally, as an insult (it could be taken that way), and it elicited a not very nice response, e.g. allusions to middle-aged women and the elderly, from another poster.
So I can see why several people are upset at this sudden turn of events, unfortunately to the extent that they feel they have to leave this forum. It's a great shame, because they did make worthwhile contributions to the site, and not just on the subject of Thranduil.
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Adrianna
Lorien
Jan 9 2015, 10:05pm
Post #15 of 77
(1907 views)
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I think everybody was in accord with the copyright violation it was what sIlverlode stated. I know it was for me.
But again we are all grown mature adults and should be able to get past this
"I did free him. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders."
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 9 2015, 10:09pm
Post #16 of 77
(1900 views)
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And nice avatar, by the way. :)
I think everybody was in accord with the copyright violation it was what sIlverlode stated. I know it was for me.
But again we are all grown mature adults and should be able to get past this
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 9 2015, 10:24pm
Post #17 of 77
(1891 views)
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It was more a reaction to what Silverlode said: 'the majority of regulars on this board have been asked to put up with your 35-part monster thread over a very long period of time'. This was really quite hurtful (not to me, because I haven't participated very much in these threads, but I can see why others are upset). This was the first time I'd heard that anyone had had to 'put up' with these threads, which implied that they were somehow resented. Had someone politely told the posters this before, they would have done whatever needed to be done to not irk those 'others'. As it is, though, the statement came out of the blue and was unpleasant to read. That statement is what bothered me the most too, and honestly, I'm still perplexed about where it came from and what it meant.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven
Jan 9 2015, 10:39pm
Post #18 of 77
(1884 views)
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Heh, posters have had to put up with me for 11 years now!
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Posters do have to put up with you. They also have to put up with me and my trivia threads and my costuming talks and my insistence on reminding people that not everyone has seen the most recent Hobbit movie  . But I don't believe that it's an insult or anything to be ashamed of. If I may, I suspect that particular comment was meant in a bit of a light-hearted/neutral tone. You might try rereading some of the mod comments over there as neutrally as possible and see if you still feel the same way.
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive
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Adrianna
Lorien
Jan 9 2015, 10:45pm
Post #19 of 77
(1875 views)
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Maybe I can figure out how to start the fan art thread . Where we can start posting fan art of Thranduil.
"I did free him. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders."
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Me85
Rivendell
Jan 9 2015, 10:46pm
Post #20 of 77
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I believe the members that have left this board did not leave because they did not want to change their behavior and comply to the rules but because apparently the TA thread is unwelcome to many members of this board.
I for one have enjoyed reading these threads very much and will be sad to see them go if it comes to that.
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Altaira
Superuser
Jan 9 2015, 11:29pm
Post #21 of 77
(1892 views)
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We have been mentioning things all along
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I know for a fact that the picture size, copyright and family friendly language issues have been brought up multiple times by the mods either in past threads or via PM. It's probably escaped people's notice because we like to do it quietly and not disrupt the boards or the threads any more than we have to. Yet, this very week, we were still finding copyrighted material and had to edit non-family friendly swear words out of posts. Thus, yet another request was definitely necessary.
I think it was over-reacting to say that people here have had to 'put up' with the TA threads but, to be fair, it was in response to ganging-up hostility towards a few members who were only trying to have a little fun, which shocked most of us moderators. So, hopefully we can be forgiven.
I think it's a good idea to move on and just make sure, really make sure, that the threads are following the Terms of Service. While the threads are more than welcome here (really!), it also might be worth thinking about another platform where Thranduil-lovers can congregate and can make their own rules (i.e. bigger picture sizes, more innuendo, sexier pictures and fan-fic, etc.), *if* that's something you think might be of interest.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Jan 10 2015, 12:04am
Post #22 of 77
(1857 views)
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So, hopefully we can be forgiven. No hard feelings from me. I'm not sure there's even anything that needs forgiving at this point. You were just doing your jobs. *hugs all the mods*
While the threads are more than welcome here (really!), it also might be worth thinking about another platform where Thranduil-lovers can congregate and can make their own rules (i.e. bigger picture sizes, more innuendo, sexier pictures and fan-fic, etc.), *if* that's something you think might be of interest.
For the sake of putting in my two cents on this matter, I'm totally fine with keeping the TA threads in line with the TORn ToS. Sure, bigger picture sizes might be nice, but as for the rest of what you mentioned...Well, lets just say I agree with Hengist that some of those posts were getting weird.
Happy Hobbity New Year! :D
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Jan 10 2015, 12:34am
Post #23 of 77
(1839 views)
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It's probably at least partly down to misunderstandings of people's intentions, particularly of those 'few members who were only trying to have a little fun'! Easy enough to do if you are not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of certain posters.
And I did notice that the latest posts were getting a bit 'raunchy', though not in any very overt way (as far as I was concerned). So thank you to the moderators for keeping that aspect of things in line (which I didn't realise they had been doing).
I hope those posters who have left will return.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Jan 10 2015, 12:51am
Post #24 of 77
(1856 views)
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If I've posted anything that offends anyone, I apologize.
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I haven't looked at a TA thread in months; the first ones were moderately amusing, but I soon lost interest and haven't been back. When the Anti-Thranduil thread popped up, I thought it was a funny, good-natured poke at the foibles of our TORNsibs, and I joined in with laughter. I don't believe for a second that Bomby had any intention of causing resentment or hard feelings with his posts, and I know I didn't.
So if anyone felt hurt by our shenanigans, I'm sorry, please believe that it was all intended in a spirit of fun and good-natured ribbing.  to all.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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Adrianna
Lorien
Jan 10 2015, 12:53am
Post #25 of 77
(1837 views)
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I might be little guilty of some of those post that might have been a little weird but it was all in fun. It was not intended to offend or break any rules intentionally.
But if it was inappropriate then I wish that someone could have let me know could you tone it down a bit. I would not have gotten offended because I do believe in following the rules.
Again I'm over it. Let's be mature adults and move on.
"I did free him. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders."
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