Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
The changes of Gondor in the movie.

Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Jan 4 2015, 12:33am

Post #1 of 12 (1834 views)
Shortcut
The changes of Gondor in the movie. Can't Post

I always wondered if the changes, for example characters like Faramir and Denethor were really necessary? Also how weak the gondorians were in Return of the King. Rohan had some badass figures like Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn,Gamli and even a short cameo of Grimbold. Maybe Gondor should expand the role of Lroas. The second command of their military. Or having Beregrond in the movie?
PJ got it right with the men of Dale in the last Hobbit film. Even in their darkest hour, they still hold their ground and fought to the death. Jackson made them more heroic than the mighty Gondor.


(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Jan 4 2015, 12:34am)


Misto
Lorien

Jan 4 2015, 10:13am

Post #2 of 12 (1400 views)
Shortcut
Necessary, imo [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess the whole story behind this family is just too complex to find room in a film like Return of the King. To really keep up with their strength and failings you would have to go a lot deeper, and there simply isn't any time for it. It is much easier to just say "look: here's a demented old fool gone dangerous - let's get rid of him to save the world". The same is true for Faramir. If you delve into the complex motivations behind his actions you would have ended up not with Lord of the Rings part 3, but with The Stewart family. I will agree with John Noble - that might have made an interesting Shakespearean play, but certainly not a film!


(This post was edited by Misto on Jan 4 2015, 10:13am)


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Jan 4 2015, 11:40am

Post #3 of 12 (1356 views)
Shortcut
It's difficult [In reply to] Can't Post

John Noble as Denethor was sometimes a pain to watch. He was so off character. They didn't need to make him to a crazy desperate man. I was ok with some of the changes of Faramir, but they didn't need to change that much of him. For example, he should have been more nicer with Gollum or treat him at least with respect. He could have said in the beating scene: ''Stop this. This is not who we are'' , or something like that. As he did with the fallen haradrim warrior that fell off a mumakil. Irolas(I wrote his name in the wrong way from my previous post), the lookalike prince Imrahil role should have been expanded. I would rather ham him leave the garrison against Mordor forces. Or even have him try to save Faramir from the pyre. Filmmakers didn't necessary have to make Gondor's military to look so frail and weak.


(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Jan 4 2015, 11:51am)


Faleel
Rohan


Jan 4 2015, 9:03pm

Post #4 of 12 (1324 views)
Shortcut
The people of Dale/Laketown [In reply to] Can't Post

Did not have to deal with the terror of the Nazgul.


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Jan 4 2015, 10:01pm

Post #5 of 12 (1300 views)
Shortcut
The Nazgul threat [In reply to] Can't Post

I think one of the main reason soldiers were afraid of the nazgul during the battle, is that there were lack of strong leadership that could defy the fear of nazguls. If characters like Boromir or Faramir were not absent, I think the soldiers would rally behind them against whatever threat came. Like Aragorn managed to strengthen their morale during the battle at the Black Gate. That's why I wish there were other captains with strong wills were present during the siege of Minas Tirith besides Gandalf.


Gwytha
Rohan


Jan 5 2015, 3:16am

Post #6 of 12 (1356 views)
Shortcut
I will always cringe [In reply to] Can't Post

at the changes to Denethor as to a number of other changes from book to film. Were they necessary? I don't think we'll really know until and if some other filmmaker tries it without those changes and makes it work. They were PJ's solution to certain problems translating book to film. I think a lot of his other changes were genius.

Diminishing the heroism of certain characters or cultures(from Frodo to the Ents and beyond) has been one of my biggest objections to the LOTR films(which I love and will keep watching hundred of times more than I watch more perfect films that I never complain about.).

We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner!


balbo biggins
Rohan


Jan 10 2015, 1:24am

Post #7 of 12 (1192 views)
Shortcut
the lowest level of minis tirith [In reply to] Can't Post

nobody seems to remember that the lowest level of minis tirith, the outerwall was actually black and made of the same stuff that orthanc is made of, not even much artwork recognises this. I don't see why not it would look great .


squire
Half-elven


Jan 10 2015, 3:29am

Post #8 of 12 (1210 views)
Shortcut
You are not alone [In reply to] Can't Post

This first post from a discussion in 2009 captures what I think you're talking about. (Here is the full original post, reporting on the white outer wall of the Minas Tirith set, from November 2001)

This reply was my lonely-feeling attempt to remember, as you put it, the book.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Jan 16 2015, 11:12pm

Post #9 of 12 (1111 views)
Shortcut
The character of Faramir [In reply to] Can't Post

in LOTR trilogy was terrible and even more horrendous was the actor who played him. And i definitely agree about the depiction of Gondor. Underwhelming with the most forgettable faces of every other place in Middle Earth.

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Jan 18 2015, 2:14pm

Post #10 of 12 (1102 views)
Shortcut
Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Despite the changes to the character, I thought David Wenham gave a lovely, understated performance.

To address the point about the changes to the character and the storyline in Gondor, I do feel the adaptation could have been stronger, but the EE scene between Faramir, Denethor and Boromir does expand on what Jackson was aiming for. Faramir is still, in the end, an honorable man, but he seeks an opportunity to demonstrate his "quality" and differentiate himself from his accomplished brother. If not for the fact that the characters are quite different as written by Tolkien, it's actually a really fascinating exploration of the relationship between fathers and their sons. I don't think Jackson was simply changing the characters for fun, as much as some of us might disagree with those alterations. There is an obvious storytelling logic to what he attempted.


(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Jan 18 2015, 2:16pm)


Gwytha
Rohan


Jan 18 2015, 5:30pm

Post #11 of 12 (1080 views)
Shortcut
I still have some trouble with this change even though [In reply to] Can't Post

it does make Faramir a more interesting charactar.

I think a lot of the way we react to changes has to do with our emotional attachment to characters and, perhaps, the role they have played in our own lives. When a character change bothers me its usually because it makes a character I admire seem less heroic. I was eleven when I first read the books and Faramir taught me something pretty important about life: there are some perils from which one should flee. I think of all the times when I've had a moment of temptation to check something out but knew if I did it might suck me into some path or action I'd regret. Those times when I told myself "Just don't go there"--I think Faramir was at least part of what helped me make the right decision. So I may never stop cringing inside at Faramir's weaknesses in the film.

And even if I'd never read the books, I would still hold to the principal that heroes don't allow their subordinates to beat up on prisoners.

Growth after all is not so much a matter of change as of ripening, and what alters most is the degree of clarity with which we see one another. -Edith Pargeter


moreorless
Gondor

Jan 22 2015, 7:26pm

Post #12 of 12 (1104 views)
Shortcut
I wouldnt say "off character" so much as a "different character"... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
John Noble as Denethor was sometimes a pain to watch. He was so off character. They didn't need to make him to a crazy desperate man. I was ok with some of the changes of Faramir, but they didn't need to change that much of him. For example, he should have been more nicer with Gollum or treat him at least with respect. He could have said in the beating scene: ''Stop this. This is not who we are'' , or something like that. As he did with the fallen haradrim warrior that fell off a mumakil. Irolas(I wrote his name in the wrong way from my previous post), the lookalike prince Imrahil role should have been expanded. I would rather ham him leave the garrison against Mordor forces. Or even have him try to save Faramir from the pyre. Filmmakers didn't necessary have to make Gondor's military to look so frail and weak.


I think what you really have to accept is that the Denethor we got on screen was really not the same character as that which we got in the book. I don't think you can really say that the character we saw on screen was inconsistent just different.

I think what was done with Denethor is really the same as what was done with Gondor as a whole(sans Faramir). I think a decision was taken to simplify them so that the rest of the story could get more attention.

Pushing Denethor towards being a more over the top was I would say the best way for him to make an impact with relatively limited screen time. For the book Denethor to really be done well would have needed 2-3 times as long if you ask me. To try and shoe horn him into film Denethors limited screen time would IMHO have risked him coming across as a bit bland and being lost in the shuffle.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.