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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
An Ultimate Edition of LOTR

Elutherian
Rohan


Dec 19 2014, 10:28pm

Post #1 of 22 (8778 views)
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An Ultimate Edition of LOTR Can't Post

If PJ were to make additions to the EE's in the form of an Ultimate Edition, what things would you be comfortable with? What would you absolutely hate? And what are your personal ideas you'd like to see?


Here's mine:

Would like to see/would be ok with/personal ideas: ( * next to the ones I really want to see)
- Martin Freeman as Bilbo in the Prologue*
- Bilbo's journal featuring designs from the Hobbit trilogy*
- A drawing of Thorin in the journal would also be pretty cool*
- Short flashback to young Arwen and Aragorn
- Somehow include Bilbo at the Council of Elrond (It would be tough, but possible)
- Show the staircase Gandalf climbs in his Balrog flashback (not the opening scene, obviously)
- I think it might be cool to show Galadriel appearing to Gandalf as he comes back to life, a nod to their relationship in the Hobbit*
- Frodo appearing as a Gollum-like creature to Faramir (this was almost included in the EE)
- Eowyn having her heroic moment in the Glittering Caves
- The library scene with Elrond and Arwen
- The rumored 30-second scene of Mumakil crashing into the walls of Minas Tirith
- The Epilogue*

Would NOT want to see:
- Tom Bombadil or any of his surrounding story (Jackson was wise to cut this stuff)
- Any Tauriel, Thranduil, Bard, Dain, Beorn, Radagast or any attempt to shoehorn surviving characters exclusive to The Hobbit into this trilogy (maybe with the exception of call-backs in dialogue)
- Sam using the ring to get past The Watchers (We shouldn't know he has the ring until he rescues Frodo, even though Jackson said something about adding it later in the EE commentary)
- Aragorn vs. Sauron
- The Scouring of the Shire

Chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder.

(This post was edited by Elutherian on Dec 19 2014, 10:32pm)


Meneldor
Valinor


Dec 20 2014, 12:37am

Post #2 of 22 (8344 views)
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I'd like to see most of thse deleted scenes [In reply to] Can't Post

 but I'm doubtful about how well they would integrate into the films. I expect I'd watch it at least once to see if I liked it.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


Gianna
Rohan


Dec 20 2014, 3:46am

Post #3 of 22 (8301 views)
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I would love to see ALL of the ones you would like to see [In reply to] Can't Post

And I really, really, really want to see all the scenes that were hinted at in the trailers but never got into the TE or the EE.

But I disagree that it was a good idea to cut Bombadil from the story. That's one of my favourite parts in the book! The Scouring also badly needed to be in the film - imo it's the point of the book. As I see it, in the end, all the Hobbits' adventures in the War of the Ring were to prepare them for this last test, when it was their own home being destroyed. (I think someone said something about this somewhere either in LOTR [Gandalf?] or Tolkien said it somewhere. Dunno.)

~There's some good left in this world. And it's worth fighting for.~


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 3:50am

Post #4 of 22 (8349 views)
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My "Ultimate LotR" [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's what I'd like to see added/changed were PJ and Co. to create "Ultimate Editions" of LotR:
* Martin Freeman as Bilbo added to the Prologue
* The redesigned "Serkis Gollum" added to TFotR
* Peter Hambleton's Gloin added to the Council of Elrond
* Graham McTavish as Dwalin and Adam Brown as Ori added to the Mines of Moria sequence (superimposing the actors' images over two of the sets of skeletal remains that we see)
* Aragorn seeing "Sauron the Fair"
* The remaining 'Epilogue' scenes featuring Gimli, Legolas, etc.
* Aragorn having his armor fitted
* Arwen and Aragorn's first meeting
* Arwen and Elrond in the library
* "Figwit" being identified as Lindir through new dialogue


I'd also support the addition of Tauriel in some capacity.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 5:17pm

Post #5 of 22 (8293 views)
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My Ultimate Edition (also kind of a response to the two lists that have been posted) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll just sort of build on what's already been posted in your post and the other one with some stuff listed since you both pretty much covered everything. If I have an extra comment I'll put it in bold.

Stuff I'd like to see:

Quote
From Elutherian's post:

- Martin Freeman as Bilbo in the Prologue
- Bilbo's journal featuring designs from the Hobbit trilogy
- A drawing of Thorin in the journal would also be pretty cool
- Short flashback to young Arwen and Aragorn
- Somehow include Bilbo at the Council of Elrond (It would be tough, but possible)
- Show the staircase Gandalf climbs in his Balrog flashback (not the opening scene, obviously) (not sure this would be necessary, but I wouldn't mind it)
- I think it might be cool to show Galadriel appearing to Gandalf as he comes back to life, a nod to their relationship in the Hobbit
- Frodo appearing as a Gollum-like creature to Faramir (this was almost included in the EE)
- Eowyn having her heroic moment in the Glittering Caves
- The library scene with Elrond and Arwen
- The rumored 30-second scene of Mumakil crashing into the walls of Minas Tirith
- The Epilogue

From Digific Writer's post:

* The redesigned "Serkis Gollum" added to TFotR
* Peter Hambleton's Gloin added to the Council of Elrond
* Aragorn having his armor fitted
* "Figwit" being identified as Lindir through new dialogue


I'd also support the addition of Tauriel in some capacity.
(Er...They'd have to be sooooo careful here. I wouldn't mind a little Tauriel cameo, like maybe she could be shown as one one the elves who comes with Legolas to the Council of Elrond, but I don't want her to play any major added role in LOTR. IMO, it would be totally unneeded. In fact, if PJ really is interested in coming back to ME in a few years like he says, and he really wants to do something about continuing/wrapping up Tauriel's story, I would strongly suggest he do something about having her in a bridge movie of some sort.)


Stuff I wouldn't want to see:

Quote
From Elutherian's post:
- Tom Bombadil or any of his surrounding story (Jackson was wise to cut this stuff)
-Any Tauriel, Thranduil, Bard, Dain, Beorn, Radagast or any attempt to shoehorn surviving characters exclusive to The Hobbit into this trilogy (maybe with the exception of call-backs in dialogue) (I already commented on Tauriel's inclusion so I won't say it again. I actually wouldn't mind a teeny tiny added cameo of Thranduil, maybe sending Legolas to the CoE, and I wouldn't mind a teeny tiny cameo from Radagast. Radagast was in a scene in the book after all, but that's it. I agree there's no need for Bard, Dain, or Beorn to show up outside of a call-back in dialogue though.)

- The Scouring of the Shire

From DigiFic Writer's post:
* Graham McTavish as Dwalin and Adam Brown as Ori added to the Mines of Moria sequence (superimposing the actors' images over two of the sets of skeletal remains that we see) (not even sure what is meant by "superimposing the actors' images over the skeletal remains) Dwalin and Ori died in Moria and therefore would have been skeletons. We've also been told by PJ and Adam Brown himself that the little skeleton that Gandalf takes the book from is supposed to be Ori, so I don't understand what you're saying.)
* Aragorn seeing "Sauron the Fair"


"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.

The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.

Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 5:44pm

Post #6 of 22 (8308 views)
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The only additions... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that I'd want to see integrated into a future edition of the films would be in RotK: added Arwen scenes to make more sense of the "Arwen is dying..." subplot & the Epilogue (which we really should have gotten in the EE). And maybe an updated Gollum in FotR.

Everything else can go in a deleted scenes menu.

What I most definitely do NOT want to see added in the movie is Martin Freeman as Bilbo in the flashback. I know this is popular with many here, but "The Hobbit" trilogy are separate films from LotR - from a different time, with a different style, etc. Bilbo belongs to Sir Ian Holm in The Lord of the Rings. I do not want those films retroactively changed to match with The Hobbit. No, no no.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 6:25pm

Post #7 of 22 (8267 views)
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Eruvandi... [In reply to] Can't Post

... what I meant was taking two of the skeletons and turning them into still-intact corpses by using CGI to superimpose McTavish and Brown's likenesses onto them. The reason I'd like to see this done is that it would tighten the timeline a bit and explain why nobody knew that Moria had been overrun once more.

Having all the Dwarven remains in Moria be skeletal suggests that word about its fall should've gotten out, even if only in whispers, because it suggests that there was a significant amount of time between the fall of the kingdom and the Fellowship's journey as depicted filmicly.


PredatoR
Bree


Dec 20 2014, 8:49pm

Post #8 of 22 (8261 views)
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Prologue. [In reply to] Can't Post

I definitely want to see longer Prologue for BotLA. Gil-Galad's scenes should appear again and would be nice to mention Gil-Galad's ring passes to Elrond.

Other than that everything extra are always welcome. There are so many deleted scenes and it would be a huge list if I would write. :)


Na Vedui
Rohan


Dec 20 2014, 9:01pm

Post #9 of 22 (8268 views)
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Moria [In reply to] Can't Post

The ones who went to Moria were Balin, Ori , and Oin (who got taken by the Watcher in the Water some time before the final disaster in which Ori must have been killed). I think in the books, Dwalin stayed at Erebor and lived to a very ripe old age (past the War of the Ring, even - which he may well have fought in, like Dain).


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 9:05pm

Post #10 of 22 (8243 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The ones who went to Moria were Balin, Ori , and Oin (who got taken by the Watcher in the Water some time before the final disaster in which Ori must have been killed). I think in the books, Dwalin stayed at Erebor and lived to a very ripe old age (past the War of the Ring, even - which he may well have fought in, like Dain).


Thanks for that info. You would think Dwalin would've followed his brother, but if he didn't, he didn't.

I still think superimposing actors' images over some of the skeletal remains would be a nice way to visually tie the trilogies together.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 9:16pm

Post #11 of 22 (8226 views)
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Oh, ok. [In reply to] Can't Post

I see what you're saying now. Thanks for explaining.Smile


Quote
The reason I'd like to see this done is that it would tighten the timeline a bit and explain why nobody knew that Moria had been overrun once more.

Having all the Dwarven remains in Moria be skeletal suggests that word about its fall should've gotten out, even if only in whispers, because it suggests that there was a significant amount of time between the fall of the kingdom and the Fellowship's journey as depicted filmicly.

To a certain extent, I agree with you that if there were skeletal remains, it would suggest that there had been enough time since the fall of Moria that it seems like somebody somewhere would know about it. Yet at the same time, IIRC it was the same way in the book. There were skeletons and yet nobody seemed to know that Moria had fallen. I'm not sure what the reasoning was behind this, unless possibly the goblins did something to the dwarves' bodies like...well...eat them or something so that it wouldn't have taken so long for them to become skeletons.

The only other explanation I can think of could simply be that no one survived the fall, therefore no one escaped to tell anyone about it, and with the Watcher in the Water eating people who came near the entrance to Moria, maybe there was just no way for anyone to go inside to find out about things until such time as the Fellowship showed up. I dunno.

"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.

The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.

Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 9:18pm

Post #12 of 22 (8263 views)
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Did they ever explain that? [In reply to] Can't Post

The part about Arwen dying, I mean. Did they ever explain why she was dying, because I've never heard the reasoning behind that subplot, and I don't remember them explaining it when I watched all the Appendices material.

"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.

The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.

Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 9:41pm

Post #13 of 22 (8271 views)
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The second Fall of Moria (Filmic timeline) [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on the filmic timeline of events, there would've been 6 years between Moria's second Fall and when the Fellowship traveled there. That may have been enough time for all of the remains to have decayed and become skeletonized, but I would still like to see a visual link between the two trilogies in terms of seeing the actual corpses of characters we're familiar with.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 22 2014, 6:41am

Post #14 of 22 (8229 views)
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A thousand times yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I am dying to see those Arwen deleted scenes. That line about her dying doesn't make any sense without these scenes, so it should have been dropped if the additional scenes weren't going to be in there.

I also really want to see the Aragon and Arwen first meeting scene. I know there are some people who think Arwen was given too much screentime as it, but I could have done with some more honestly.



Kelly of Water's Edge
Rohan

Dec 23 2014, 5:54pm

Post #15 of 22 (8177 views)
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Some thoughts: [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure of Ian Holm's status at this point, so others would know better than I if any thought of new material with him would even be viable.
From what I know of Tolkien's additional material, Bard had passed by the time of the War of the Ring - I assume of natural causes with average aged men being shorter-lived than the other ME races, so he wouldn't have been around. His son and Dain, however, were both killed in battle on their front while the events we know better involving Bilbo's young relatives and Sam were taking place. This could be inserted if they were so inclined, and I would have no problem with it. Thranduil too was quite busy during the War of the Rings. Mirkwood suffered quite a bad siege.
I disagree with you about the Scouring. I think it makes a very important point about why the four Hobbits (as well as Tolkien and his friends in real life) had to do what they did, and I think it's a shame that it was left out.


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 23 2014, 6:23pm

Post #16 of 22 (8194 views)
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Bard could've still been alive at the time of the War of the Ring [In reply to] Can't Post

Because of the way that Peter and Co. truncated the chronology of the storytelling for their filmic adaptation of The Lord of the Rings (with only 60 or 61 years having elapsed between the events depicted in The Battle of the Five Armies and the events depicted in TLotR, specifically The Return of the King), it is actually quite possible that Bard could have still been alive during Sauron's all-out assault on Middle-earth during the War of the Ring.

However, he would've been quite old (depending on his age as of the events of TBotFA) and therefore would not have likely been able to play much of an active role in the story.

It might be interesting for them to cast for and shoot some 'insert' footage of what was happening at Dale during the events of TRotK, but it's not really something that we absolutely need to see (at least not IMO).


moreorless
Gondor

Dec 28 2014, 6:40pm

Post #17 of 22 (8109 views)
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A good list plus I would remove some scenes.. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Here's what I'd like to see added/changed were PJ and Co. to create "Ultimate Editions" of LotR:
* Martin Freeman as Bilbo added to the Prologue
* The redesigned "Serkis Gollum" added to TFotR
* Peter Hambleton's Gloin added to the Council of Elrond
* Graham McTavish as Dwalin and Adam Brown as Ori added to the Mines of Moria sequence (superimposing the actors' images over two of the sets of skeletal remains that we see)
* Aragorn seeing "Sauron the Fair"
* The remaining 'Epilogue' scenes featuring Gimli, Legolas, etc.
* Aragorn having his armor fitted
* Arwen and Aragorn's first meeting
* Arwen and Elrond in the library
* "Figwit" being identified as Lindir through new dialogue

I'd also support the addition of Tauriel in some capacity.


I think that's a good list of the stuff I would like to see added, I don't think Moria really needs reference to the other dwarves although if footage is there I would like to see the idea of Balin looking to reoccupy Moria brought up.

I wouldn't have a problem with Freeman as Bilbo, that's not a "Sebastian Shaw" like situation for me as for one thing its a far less important scene dramatically and for another a Freeman as Bilbo clearly makes sense. Added to that of course we've got some extra Ian Holm in the Hobbit films.

I would say as well look to do something with the FX work for the dead during the battle, I liked it a lot underground but in daylight it was too green/glarish.

Besides that I would suggest some scenes that the films could benefit from removing..

Eoywen and Aragorn soup, always fell a bit flat for me and Aragorns age was never really explained.

The Merry/Pipping epilogue in TTT, doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the ending sapping the drama, not needed anyway as the start of ROTK covers the same ground.

Cut down on some of the Gimli comedy in the Paths of the Dead, a few seconds less blowing hands would be enough.

Remove the scene with the Corsairs being overrun, the acting/comedy is a bit off and it takes away from the supprize at during the battle. Showing the dead agreeing to fight and the Corsairs ships at a distance is more than enough for the audience to make the link.

The Mouth of Sauron, too cartoonish and Aragorn killing him goes against parlay.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Dec 28 2014, 6:44pm)


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Dec 29 2014, 12:42am

Post #18 of 22 (8102 views)
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Sauron and Gollum [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to see Sauron during Gollum's torture from FOTR.


Cillendor
Lorien


Dec 30 2014, 8:10pm

Post #19 of 22 (8125 views)
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I know we're only talking about the LOTR here, but [In reply to] Can't Post

I also want to see scenes from this battle in DOS. It'd fit perfectly during the conversation between Thorin and Thranduil. Redoing the dialog slightly, PJ could remove that stupid scar moment and instead replace it with a flashback of seeing his father die in the BotLA. In addition to showing the real reason why Thranduil didn't want to get involved, it'd also give a chance to show him interacting with Elrond, Elendil, and Isildur. It could show cameo of Durin, even calling him out by name, so viewers would realize the once-close relations between Elves and Dwarves. And it would make the Orc interrogation scene from later in DOS make more sense, since it would give a reason for Thranduil to be so terrified of the Orc's hints of Sauron's return.


Patty
Immortal


Jan 28 2015, 2:35pm

Post #20 of 22 (7991 views)
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You are not alone here, Aragon... [In reply to] Can't Post

While I feel that Martin Freeman did an excellent job as the younger Bilbo, all of Ian Holmes's masterful depiction of the elder Bilbo should be left intact, in my humble opinion.

Permanent address: Into the West






RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 29 2015, 12:31am

Post #21 of 22 (8029 views)
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A couple things I'd like to see. [In reply to] Can't Post

An extended Houses of Healing scene, and the weddings.

I know they filmed some wedding scenes, because Harry at Ain't It Cool News was in raptures over the dress. I can't remember which one it was, though, and whether they filmed both or just one.

I'm pretty sure they filmed more HoH, too, and it was way too short, even in the EE.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Patty
Immortal


Feb 3 2015, 1:14am

Post #22 of 22 (7967 views)
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I'm with you there, RosieLass! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West





 
 

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