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xxxyyy
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 1:45am
Post #1 of 19
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What exactly is the power of the dwarven Rings?
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They must have some kind of power.
Otherwise why risking putting them on while the "wanderings" of the One are unknown.
Sauron might find it and bind the ones wearing them in a blink.
Does Tolkien answer this question?
It think it would have been nice to see some sort of magic power when Thrain was fighting at Azanulbizar. They can still add it sometimes on the future. Hell, I would pay someone to add it for my private edition.
Unless you guys have an answer...
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 28 2014, 2:06am
Post #2 of 19
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But I think in the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales or one of those doesn't it refer to at some point refers to having power over somehow increasing gold/treasure? I don't think it mentions how they do this but somehow they convey some kind of power (whether it's just simple greed or avarice I don't know).
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you, Gandalf the Grey
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 2:21am
Post #3 of 19
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Greed is increased by those Rings, but that's a side effect.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 28 2014, 2:23am
Post #4 of 19
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They were not specifically made for the Dwarves; apparently Sauron took them from Celebrimbor by force. The Dwarves proved resistant to the primary magic of the rings, which could not even turn them invisible. The rings did amplify their wearer's natural skills and desire of dominion, so they became greedy and rich; the Rings gave them the power to multiply whatever they mined. But they failed to give Sauron dominion over the Dwarves, which is why he took them back when he could.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 28 2014, 2:24am
Post #5 of 19
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If you exclude greed and avarice, there's not much left.//
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dwarvenboot
Registered User
Dec 28 2014, 5:34am
Post #6 of 19
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It was pretty obvious to see that at least Thrain's ring had the ability to hide what was going on at Dol Goldur (based on the TDoS extended edition).
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Scorchster
Rivendell
Dec 28 2014, 7:22am
Post #7 of 19
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As far as I know they do not give magical 'powers' in the usual fantasy sense. They were probably used by the dwarves to accumulate their vast hoards of treasure - like the one in Erebor.
The dwarves proved resistant to Sauron's control when wearing their rings. However, it amplified their greed, and as a result largely kept them out of the War of the Ring, which in a way somewhat still aided Sauron's purposes.
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Dec 28 2014, 10:27am
Post #8 of 19
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Sounds like you are cnfusing them with the Three Elven Rings...
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it was Vilya, narya and Nenya that had to be hidden since they were unsullied by Sauron and could only be worn and used safely whilst the One Ring was lost.
They must have some kind of power.
Otherwise why risking putting them on while the "wanderings" of the One are unknown.
Sauron might find it and bind the ones wearing them in a blink.
The Dwarven rings did indeed increase the Dwarves' gold lust and exacerbate their natural tendency to avarice. and were believed to be the foundations of the gold hoards of the Seven houses. From LotR Appendix A:
The Dwarf Lords proved resistant to the malevolent magic of the rings, which could not even turn them invisible. The rings amplified their wearer's natural skills and desire of dominion which as a consequence, they became greedy and exceedingly rich; the Rings gave them the power to multiply whatever they mined
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
(This post was edited by Eleniel on Dec 28 2014, 10:28am)
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moreorless
Gondor
Dec 28 2014, 11:21am
Post #9 of 19
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It is interesting speculation..
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It was pretty obvious to see that at least Thrain's ring had the ability to hide what was going on at Dol Goldur (based on the TDoS extended edition).
I don't believe Tolkien ever addressed what use Sauron could have put the recaptured seven rings to. The way things played out in the film though I do agree it gives the impression that Sauron is potentially building his own power somehow via possessing them.
My personal feeling was that Sauron probably used them to entrap humans to the south and east to increase the strength of his control over them and increase antagonism against the Gondorians.
(This post was edited by moreorless on Dec 28 2014, 11:24am)
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 11:34am
Post #10 of 19
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They were probably used by the dwarves to accumulate their vast hoards of treasure - like the one in Erebor.
Yes, but how? Do the Rings were like the philosopher's stone, turning rock into gold?
Why wear it with the risk of, basically, dying.
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 11:41am
Post #11 of 19
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Yes, but my concern is with the movie universe
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If the One can bind all the Rings (and the ones who wear them) into darkness, if they have no power, why wear them?
Also, this could be said for the books. The dwarves (with Rings) were resilient to the One. That implies an effort, a stress in order to resist the One... then why wear them if they have no power?
Did they just wear them for the side effect of greed, allowing them to accumulate gold?
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moreorless
Gondor
Dec 28 2014, 1:44pm
Post #13 of 19
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I would suggest more via increasing the wearers skill and greed
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They were probably used by the dwarves to accumulate their vast hoards of treasure - like the one in Erebor. Yes, but how? Do the Rings were like the philosopher's stone, turning rock into gold? Why wear it with the risk of, basically, dying.
I would suggest that the effect of the rings isn't to "create" gold but rather to increase the wearers innate skill (and ability to control others) plus his greed. So a Dwarven king with one of the rings would be better at acquiring wealth and more likely to keep it for himself.
It would be the same with the one ring, if one of the powerful leaders of the side of good had taken it and used it they would have become a more skilful leader with the ability to sway others, indeed potentially to have turned Sauron's own servants against him.
(This post was edited by moreorless on Dec 28 2014, 1:47pm)
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Dec 28 2014, 4:48pm
Post #17 of 19
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meant to add the Tolkien Gateway link but obviously forgot in my haste!
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Dec 29 2014, 5:22pm
Post #18 of 19
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There is a quote:
Years afterward {After the sack of Erebor} Thror, now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thrain the one great treasure he still possessed, the last of the Seven Rings... Of the Ring he said to Thrain at their parting:
'This may prove the foundation of a new fortune for you yet, though that seems unlikely. But it needs gold to breed gold.'
Afterwards, the passage goes on to describe the death of Thror as he attempted to enter Moria, and the beginning of the feud of Orcs and Dwarves. In typical Tolkien fashion, nothing is said explicitly and veiled hints are left as to the causes of actions. It is said that maybe Thror left due to the influence of the Ring or Sauron's power over it, or just out of desperation or folly of old age. Like much of the mythology it imitates, there is no one answer and many different traditions, versions, and drafts.
I conclude that the Ring somehow allowed the bearer to increase in wealth. Thror's line about 'breeding' gold is ambiguous, and it could mean the Ring imparted economic savvy and wisdom (A benign side-effect worthy of the Elves) or that it amplified the dark desires and greed of the Dwarves (Worthy of the malice of Sauron). Many will side with the film, that the Ring was the culprit in the madness of Thror, Thrain, and Thorin, and even the summoning of Smaug. In the books, however, as I read it, the blame is laid more to Smaug than aught else. The accumulation of gold itself was the beacon that drew him in, and like many of the dragons in Norse folklore, they attack both heroes and villains simply to accumulate treasure and will defend their hoard to the bitter end (See Beowulf's dragon and his rage over the loss of a small cup). As I read it, the madness of Thorin lies more with the dragon-spell and lingering influence of Smaug than anything else.
In my opinion, Thror recognised the inherent danger of the Ring, (or at least the peril it contained and the potentiality for evil) hence his scepticism as to its efficacy in rebuilding the Dwarf fortunes, but it is intentionally left to us to decide for ourselves.
One last thing I find interesting:
The Ring is talked about, then seemingly forgotten in the recounting of Dwarven history and the War of Dwarf and Orc that led to Azanulbizar. It is interesting how the entire course of the story starts with the passing of the Ring. In some interpretations it could be said that the Ring initiated the entire sequence of events that followed. Perhaps Thror went to Moria to get gold so the Ring could work? Azong charged him with burglary. I think I'd like a discussion of the Appendices.....
Appendix A is a great read for any fan, and I recommend it to anyone here.
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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Wainrider
Rivendell
Jan 26 2015, 5:10am
Post #19 of 19
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By the way, a bit off topic, but is there any kind of map or essay about where all the dwarves live in Middle earth? Tolkien often mentions that there are 7 houses of the Dwarves, but never discusses any of them except for Durin's folk.
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