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Elutherian
Rohan
Dec 27 2014, 11:08pm
Post #1 of 77
(2083 views)
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Ny two film edit
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I think I've worked out a blueprint for a two-film edit.
Chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder.
(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 28 2014, 1:59am)
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:13pm
Post #2 of 77
(1343 views)
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... would you want to create a two-film edit in the first place?
It's not like there's all that much that was added once the story expanded from a duology to a trilogy.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:14pm
Post #3 of 77
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But ran out of disk space ;) But what's your idea? It's really difficult to cut anything out though...
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Danielos
Rohan
Dec 27 2014, 11:17pm
Post #4 of 77
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Because I think I've worked out a blueprint for a two-film edit.
Please let us know if you´ve managed to create a four film-edit with all deleted scenes restored.
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Beorn's Bees
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:23pm
Post #5 of 77
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I'm making a two film edit at the moment
[In reply to]
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It is working brilliantly so far. What is your idea?
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:28pm
Post #6 of 77
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... as to why anybody would want to edit the trilogy back down to a duology when the only major sequences that were actually added once it was expanded to three films were the Carrock sequence (which includes Thorin's fight with Azog and Bilbo rescuing Thorin) that closed out AUJ, the Bree sequence that opened up TDoS, and the Forges sequence that closed out TDoS.
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Elutherian
Rohan
Dec 27 2014, 11:31pm
Post #7 of 77
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My version would have two 3 to 3 1/2 hour films. Legolas only has a cameo in Mirkwood along with Tauriel (who only has one line). The Dol Guldur subplot has been streamlined, with much less Radagast. The ending to AUJ has been cut. The Dwarves vs. Smaug stuff has been cut. As has the opening scene with older Bilbo and Frodo.
Chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder.
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:35pm
Post #8 of 77
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If it ain't broke, why fix it?
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None of the things you want to get rid of actually need to be removed, and would do absolutely nothing to improve the storytelling. In fact, removing those things would actually RUIN the storytelling.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:35pm
Post #9 of 77
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The thing is, the more you cut, the more difficult it gets.
[In reply to]
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Can you post long version please? I'd love to see your full ideas, as mine have all failed :/
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Elutherian
Rohan
Dec 27 2014, 11:37pm
Post #10 of 77
(1158 views)
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..... And I'll put what's on my head to paper.
May even post a whole new thread.
Chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 27 2014, 11:38pm
Post #11 of 77
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there's no way justice would have been done to this movie in two movies. Not a chance. It was shot for 3 and should have been.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 27 2014, 11:40pm
Post #12 of 77
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... it was shot as two films. However, the amount of material that was in the two scripts was so vast and comprehensive once translated from words into images that it was far more creatively feasible to expand things into a trilogy than try to force the amount of material that was shot into a 2-film structure.
there's no way justice would have been done to this movie in two movies. Not a chance. It was shot for 3 and should have been.
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Me85
Rivendell
Dec 27 2014, 11:55pm
Post #13 of 77
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Then you can cut out anything you didnt like and kind of make your own film you do like (or like better). You can remove whole subplots or (shorten) certain scenes. For example i would cut out the kili tauriel romance and perhaps shorten the dwarves in bag end. Seems difficult though cause i can imagine, once you cut one scene you have to cut many others cause they won't make sense anymore.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 28 2014, 12:00am
Post #14 of 77
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I wasn't clear sorry. yes it was shot as two but there was way too much material for two and there would have had to be stuff left out that I think would have made them lesser films to be honest. That's my opinion anyway.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 28 2014, 12:00am
Post #15 of 77
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... things like the Kili/Tauriel subplot, Legolas' involvement, and the White Council/Dol Guldur storyline are integral pieces of the story as Peter Jackson, Philipa Boyens, Fran Walsh, and GDT conceived it, and cutting them out - for no apparent reason - ruins that story.
If you don't like the way that Peter and Co. told this particular story, don't watch it. Wasting your time trying to 'fix' it is ultimately a pointless exercise.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Dec 28 2014, 12:02am
Post #16 of 77
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Has it ever occurred to you...
[In reply to]
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That some people might find it fun to do?
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 28 2014, 12:06am
Post #17 of 77
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... that don't need to be made doesn't strike me as being a 'for fun exercise'; it strikes me as trying to fix something that isn't actually broken.
That some people might find it fun to do?
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 12:08am
Post #18 of 77
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wanting a 2 film edit version.
I woudn't touch anything in this movies, except for the infamous healing scene when Tauriel "lights up".
It's embarassing.
I hope PJ will realize that and one day will fix it with maybe another take, a scene shot from another angle or something.
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Danielos
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 12:11am
Post #19 of 77
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I find it really difficult to understand why someone would like to rush through The Hobbit and get out Middle Earth as soon as possible.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Dec 28 2014, 12:11am
Post #20 of 77
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And yet I've still had a go. just for the fun of it.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Dec 28 2014, 12:14am
Post #21 of 77
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... It's not that I want a two-film version, I'd always watch the EEs over my edits, it's that I'd like a challenge in doing it.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 28 2014, 12:24am
Post #22 of 77
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and can you imagine We would have had one less year to celebrate and look forward to the next film had they only done two. I don't get the need to edit it either.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Elutherian
Rohan
Dec 28 2014, 12:28am
Post #23 of 77
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....
And to be perfectly clear, I love the Hobbit Trilogy. This is purely out of fun, not necessity.
Working with the EE versions...
An Unexpected Journey:
The beginning of An Unexpected Journey starts out the same, with an Older Bilbo telling the story of Erebor and Smaug. When he says “In a hole in a ground there lived a Hobbit” I use the wide shot of Bag End as the new Title Card for "An Unexpected Journey", with The Lonely Mountain theme playing softly over it. Then it cuts directly into the Good Morning sequence, which remains unaltered (minus the original Title Card). The Hobbiton scene is cut.
The Unexpected Party is largely the same, with some cuts in the initial proceedings. No more burping gag, for instance. Thorin's arrival to Bilbo fainting is the same, but the scene between Gandalf and Bilbo after is cut (don't leave yet, you'll see why in a little bit). Instead we cut directly to Thorin and Balin's conversation and the song after. Everything from Bilbo's decision to join the Company to Balin's recounting of Azanulbizar remains compltely intact. However, the rain scene and Radagast's intro are gone. Gandalf leaving remains the same, but the Troll sequence is shortened by a few minutes and gets to the action sooner. The Troll Cave is tightened a bit (they get in and out a bit quicker).
When Gandalf gives Sting to Bilbo, then hears something in the distance (running towards it with the company) instead of Radagast it's the Wargs. We don't see Bilbo asking about wolves or Bofur's response, but Gandalf's inqiury to Thorin is there. As soon as Gandalf says “You're being hunted.” we cut directly into the chase sequence (which is now minus Radagast's Bunny Sled, and much shorter in general).
Rivendell remains the same until the dinner scene. The extended stuff is cut out (along with Ori asking about chips and Oin stuffing his earphone with a cloth), just leaving the conversation about the swords. The Moon Runes scene is exactly the same, as is Azog's introduction on Weathertop.
Bilbo's stuff in Rivindell from the EE is there, but no bathing Dwarves and no Bombur breaking a table. The White Council stuff is cut down to the bare minimum. When Gandalf mentions Radagast we see a short flashback to Radagast talking to Gandalf about Dol Guldur and handing him the Morgul blade. Then when Galadriel talks about the Witch-King we also get the flashback of his entombment.
The Dwarves leaving and Galadriel/Gandalf scene are the same. There are no stone giants now, just a random falling of rocks that knocks Bilbo off (we get Thorin's lines about him not belonging with the company). There is no cut-away to Azog, but we go directly to Bilbo trying to leave and his conversation with Bofur.
When the Dwarves fall it's much quicker (no waterslide moment). The stuff with the Great Goblin is from the Theatrical not the Extended. After Gandalf shows up the escape scene is shortened significantly (no face-off with the Great Goblin, no impossible physics falling scene either). Riddles in the Dark remains untouched.
Here's where things get tricky. After Bilbo decides to stay and gives his speech, Azog shows up and chases the Dwarves up the trees. Gandalf sends for the Eagles, and we have the burning pinecones stuff. However, the Eagles show up immediately and save the day. No Thorin vs. Azog, No Bilbo killing an Orc, and No Carrock scene after.
Repurposing Howard Shore's score to darken the scene when the Eagles land, it cuts directly to the company running to Beorn's house. The arrival is pretty much the same. The theatrical edition scenes will be used here (sorry, Beorn fans). Azog is called away to Dol Guldur, but we don't see him go there. When Bilbo looks at the Ring, we hear the Black Speech and see scenes of Dol Guldur but it cuts immediately away to Beorn transforming back into human form.
Mirkwood is cut a bit, but the stag/stream scene can stay in with slight edits. The Spider sequence is pretty much the same, but we don't see Tauriel at all, only Legolas confronting Thorin. Bilbo's moment with the Ring remains intact. The Dwarves are imprisoned (minus Kili's line to Tauriel). Then we get Thranduil vs. Thorin, and Thorin being put in his cell. Tauriel's conversation with Thranduil is cut along with her conversation with Kili.
Cut to The High Fells scene, which is the same. Other than the flashback at The White Council it's our first encounter with Radagast.
Cut back to Bilbo rescuing the Dwarves. Tauriel's one line is “Where is the keeper of the keys?” The Barrel's sequence is significantly cut. We see the orcs (minus Bolg) attacking the gate but the gate is never closed. There's some action moments but no OTT Legolas or Bombur action, and no Bolg. The last scene with Tauriel is Legolas telling her not to kill the orc. The next scene is Thranduil questioning the orc (Tauriel is edited out of this scene entirely). It ends with him telling Legolas that no one is permitted in or out of the Kingdom.
Finally we have the company meeting Bard (Kili is not shown to be injured at all). The last scene cuts to the Thrush flying towards the Mountain. As the camera zooms in it cuts to black and we get the credits from An Unexpected Journey (complete with Neil Flynn's song).
There And Back Again:
The opening scene is Gandalf's conversation with Bilbo in Bag End (told you) save that it ends with Gandalf saying “you will not be the same.” Cut to Bard's barge floating on the water. We get that scene up to where the Dwarves see the mountain in the distance. When the camera zooms on the Mountain we get the Title Card “There and Back Again” with the Erebor theme.
Everything from there to the Thrice Welcome scene is exactly from the Theatrical Version (save Thorin's line about the “world of men” and minus any reference to Kili's sickness). There are no cutaways until this point. After the Master welcomes them it cuts to Gandalf and Radagast arriving at Dol Guldur. The scene goes (from the EE's) until Thrain tells Gandalf that “no one must enter that mountain.” The reference to his ring is cut, along with Azog talking about Gandalf lifting the spell.
Cut from Thrain's line to Thorin and company sailing towards Erebor (those watching will have to assume Kili, Fili, Oin, and Bofur are among them). We get all the walking scene, Bilbo finding the stairs, and the entire Hidden Door sequence.
Cut to Gandalf and Thrain running into Azog, running, and then the showdown with The Necromancer.
Cut to Balin talking to Bilbo about finding the Arkenstone, then we have the entire Inside Information scene with the only cutaways being Balin and Thorin's reactions, and Bard getting the Black Arrow/being arrested (no shots of the dwarves, and no Bain hiding the Black Arrow). We cut directly from Bilbo running away to the Gallery of the Kings where Smaug talks about destroying Laketown. After he says “you can watch them burn” we cut to Bard waking up in jail. Cut back to Smaug flying towards Laketown, “I am fire, I am death!”, “Do you not know what's coming!?” then directly into the opening of BOTFA. Tauriel is cut completely from this sequence, obviously. We do see Bilbo and Company watching from a distance, with Thorin looking towards Erebor. When Balin says “Soon all of Middle-Earth will know the Dragon is dead” we cut to Gandalf in his cage seeing the Orcs marching out of Dol Guldur in battle formation.
Cut to the Laketowners on the shores of the Long Lake. Most of this is the same, though Alfrid's silliness is cut down upon. Of course there's no Kili/Tauriel scene and no Legolas at all. As soon as Bard says “We find shelter” it cuts to Thorin demanding the company find the Arkenstone, then Bilbo sits outside revealing his has it (no flashback to Smaug here at all).
Cut to Galadriel entering Dol Guldur and rescuing Gandalf. This whole sequence is exactly as it is in the film, ending with Saruman saying “Leave Sauron to me.” Cut to Thorin in the Throne Room scolding Dwalin and Balin about not finding the Arkenstone, then the scene with Balin crying about Dragon Sickness. Cut to Bard and the Lake-towners entering Dale and Alfrid noticing the Dwarves have survived. Cut to the Acorn scene, followed by Thorin building up the wall. After the scene where Thranduil arrives, it cuts to Gandalf telling Radagast to “find our friends” cutting directly to him riding on his horse towards Erebor.
Then we have Bard treating with Thorin, the aftermath (preparations for war), and the Mithril scene. Cut to Gandalf arriving and talking with Bard and Thranduil (the only cut-away is Azog and his army with the mysterious giant holes in the ground). Then we have Bilbo escaping and giving the Arkenstone to Bard and Thranduil, and his conversation with Gandalf. The entire face-off scene at the gate remains the same, along with Dain's arrival and the start of the Battle.
Most of the battle itself minimized in favor of Thorin's madness (his scene with Dwalin, his hallucination, and his “one last time” moment. The Alfrid silliness is cut completely, as is most of Ravenhill following the charge out of the gates. There's no Legolas or Tauriel at all. Kili's death, with some tricky editing, happens in view of Thorin after Fili's death. Everything is about his face-off with Azog (the only problem is that he suddenly has Orcrist again, but it's the only editing error I can't fix). The Eagles show up, he and Azog mortally wound each other, and we have his final scene with Bilbo. After it cuts directly to Gandalf trying to light his pipe, and the ending is exactly as it exists in the film, along with the credits.
Chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder.
(This post was edited by Elutherian on Dec 28 2014, 12:35am)
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Bladerunner
Gondor
Dec 28 2014, 1:15am
Post #24 of 77
(1031 views)
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Could you still include Legolas...
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...raining arrows on the Orcs surrounding Thorin, and then throwing Orcrist at the troll creature?
You may not have to explain how Legolas gets up there, just that he happened to be in the battle.
....
...Everything is about his face-off with Azog (the only problem is that he suddenly has Orcrist again, but it's the only editing error I can't fix).
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 28 2014, 1:33am
Post #25 of 77
(1004 views)
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I guess if you're into editing at all it seems like it might be a fun creative thing to do.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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