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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Do you really think that it was Galadriel vs Sauron..

erdildeniz
Rivendell


Dec 26 2014, 3:33pm

Post #1 of 15 (1075 views)
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Do you really think that it was Galadriel vs Sauron.. Can't Post

..not for me. I think it was Galadriel and Saruman vs Sauron. Notice that Saruman raised his hand towards Sauron before Galadriel stands up. In the very moment of fight Saruman's hand is very hard. After when Galadriel stops nuclar, Saruman shakes too. Maybe that last state can be a shock wave from Galadriel, but i think it was Saruman's help towards Galadriel's fight.


(This post was edited by erdildeniz on Dec 26 2014, 3:33pm)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 26 2014, 3:48pm

Post #2 of 15 (605 views)
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I interpreted it in exactly the same way. [In reply to] Can't Post

Subtle but definitely looked that way to me.


Tintallë
Gondor


Dec 26 2014, 4:42pm

Post #3 of 15 (546 views)
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I completely missed that [In reply to] Can't Post

the first time around and will make a point of looking more closely next time.

I did find Saruman's assertion that he will follow through on Sauron's banishment a rather ominous foreshadowing of his changing allegiance and coming betrayal.


Nerven
Rivendell

Dec 26 2014, 6:45pm

Post #4 of 15 (445 views)
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. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it was Galadriel alone. Donīt know whatīs with all those rumors with Saruman interfering but the way I saw it, it was just Galadriel alone. Saruman seemed shocked and in awe a bit.

I aklways read there is some interview with PJ talking about Sarumans hand and the entire scene and him either helping or hindering Galadriel, but I donīt find anything.

In statements by actors (Blanchett) or screen writers (Philippa) they always say how Galadriel kicks his ass, never Saruman in mentioned.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Dec 26 2014, 7:16pm

Post #5 of 15 (474 views)
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Hopefully in the EE [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope in the EE, we'll get a bit more of this scene that would show more of Saruman aiding Galadriel.

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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Dec 26 2014, 8:00pm

Post #6 of 15 (420 views)
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I will have to look for it [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was Galadriel alone, maybe because there was so much focus on her in the scene. I will check it out the next time I go though, and interesting observation for sure.

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KingTurgon
Rohan


Dec 26 2014, 11:55pm

Post #7 of 15 (361 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked that touch. It was definitely not just Galadriel who was fighting Sauron IMO.


imin
Valinor


Dec 27 2014, 9:01am

Post #8 of 15 (310 views)
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What did people think of this scene? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am curious to know what people thought of this particular scene.

All posts are to be taken as my opinion.


Arandir
Gondor


Dec 27 2014, 9:49am

Post #9 of 15 (312 views)
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Flashes, flashes and more flashes! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Ringwraith fight was extraordinary: the choreography, the acting, the visuals.

I was therefore expecting something on the same level with the Sauron vs Galadriel conflict: a bit more physical.

What we got was a raised hand from a creepy The Ring look-alike Galadriel, and several split-second flashes of the flaming Eye of Sauron.

There was so much potential here, and it's surprising given how PJ likes to orchestrate a nice action scene, but throw away such an important moment by creating a dizzying to and fro sequence of flashes.

This made me think that it was more of a mental battle than a physical one. Fair enough. But I think it could have been done more subtle and less jarring.

Otherwise, the rest of the Dol Guldur sequence is brilliant.

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dubulous
Rohan

Dec 27 2014, 10:58am

Post #10 of 15 (288 views)
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Definitely Galadriel alone in the movie // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Felagund
Rohan


Dec 29 2014, 9:23pm

Post #11 of 15 (180 views)
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yes, Galadriel + Saruman vs Sauron [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll pay closer attention in my second viewing, but I agree with you: Galadriel + Saruman vs Sauron. I don't reckon it makes sense any other way. Sauron had already thumped Gandalf solo in DOS, so I don't see how Galadriel solo could knock over Sauron. If we're speaking lore, wearing Nenya wouldn't make any difference. If we're speaking movieverse, Gandalf was wearing Narya, and that didn't do him any good. And for that matter, Elrond was wearing Vilya, and he didn't seem to join in. Was Galadriel innately more powerful then? Unlike Elrond, Galadriel had experienced the Light of Aman. But, Saruman was actually of Aman - I just don't see Galadriel driving off Sauron by herself, at least in a way that retains any link with what Tolkien wrote.

As an aside, I loved the reference to "Servant of Morgoth". Was that the first reference in any of the 6 films to the First Big Bad himself?

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BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 29 2014, 9:30pm

Post #12 of 15 (169 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas says that Gandalf "was taken by both shadow and flame, a balrog of Morgoth" in FOTR.



Girdle of Melian
Lorien

Dec 29 2014, 9:35pm

Post #13 of 15 (167 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Nope, unless there is something in the extended edition, I see nothing that Saruman hindered nor helped her.

And like it or not, all of the famous names in Tolkien's world (Feanor, Luthien, Elrond, Gandalf (as an Istari), Galdriel, etc.) have enough quotes (though contradicting) as to how each of them could be more potentially more powerful than the other. It's how you interpret it. Galadriel also learned more lore from Melian, directly, no other Elf had that, and even when they were in Valinor, both Feanor and Galadriel were already stated as being the mightiest, but as I've said, every other character in this series have had such quotes on them, so for me, whether it be Galadriel, Gandalf, Saruman, (or even Radagast as an Istari) would have been fine vanquishing Sauron.


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Dec 29 2014, 9:44pm

Post #14 of 15 (163 views)
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Upon first viewing... [In reply to] Can't Post

I got the distinct impression it was both Saruman and the lady going up against Sauron. People argue that Saruman was only holding up his hand to shield the light from his eyes but this is clearly not the case. He is holding up his hand for another reason.


Felagund
Rohan


Dec 29 2014, 10:42pm

Post #15 of 15 (160 views)
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true, Sauron is far from unbeatable [In reply to] Can't Post

He got beaten up by a dog at one point, after all! If it's text we're going on, I reckon Tolkien settled it in his Letters - Gandalf was the only being in Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age who could (maybe) beat Sauron in a direct confrontation (and that's if he had the One Ring to help him too, from memory). Oh, and don't forget Galadriel's brother Finrod, if we're trawling for power points!

As for what's going on in the films, anything is possible. I've got nothing against film Galadriel beating up Sauron solo - although I feel it does detract a bit from the great scene in the FotR film, when Galadriel imagines herself as a Dark Queen. Achieving that requires acquiring the One Ring and then booting out Sauron. If she can already face down Sauron solo (a la Dol Guldur), what's the point of the One Ring? She could presumably beat up Saruman, Gandalf and co., and proclaim herself Queen of the World without the One Ring.

Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk

 
 

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