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KingTurgon
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 6:10pm
Post #1 of 28
(1298 views)
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It's 2.5 days later and I still can't decide how I feel about this movie
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On one hand, I thought the first hour and a half or so was practically perfect. However, the movie feels like a lot was cut, and Legolas stealing Beorn's role really bugs me, and there were other things I would have done differently as well (too much Alfrid, not enough Dwarves, no Kili/Tauriel, etc). Anyone else feel a similar way (not for the same reason but just the same overall feeling)?
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 6:19pm
Post #2 of 28
(749 views)
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In some ways yes, that is why I hope the EE evens out some scenes.
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Lindele
Gondor
Dec 22 2014, 6:28pm
Post #3 of 28
(744 views)
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(in some ways) that the EEs have become the definitive versions of these films because now (more so than in LOTR) the TEs suffer greatly and are fairly badly edited/paced films.
I agree that I'd have much preferred more of pretty much any of the characters than Alfrid. There wasn't even any kind of payoff for him. He felt rather pointless.
Having said that, I really loved BOTFA and think with the additions of the EE it will be a spectacular film.
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Brandybuckled
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 6:34pm
Post #4 of 28
(676 views)
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And I guess I'm reserving my final judgment until after I see the EEs.
I mean, in DOS:EE there were significant changes made even to scenes we did see (Thrain); so maybe Beorn eats Alfrid or something.
NAArP: Not An Ardent purist since Arda was dented
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smtfhw
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 6:35pm
Post #5 of 28
(707 views)
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...was that I thought there was a lot of Alfred but on second viewing it wasn't anywhere near the amount of screen time I'd thought. Also, I felt that the music wasn't very prominent - again, on second viewing it turns out I was wrong about that as well.
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Lindele
Gondor
Dec 22 2014, 6:38pm
Post #6 of 28
(657 views)
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that it is hard to take anyone's review seriously who has only seen a film one time. I have watched enough movies and have enough experience to know that it takes more than once to really get what is being thrown at you. The first time we see it we are literally just trying to take everything in, and it isn't until the 2nd or 3rd viewing that we can really see and feel the experience the way we should.
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smtfhw
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 6:41pm
Post #7 of 28
(624 views)
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That's why I've pretty much kept my opinions to myself so far... 
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Lindele
Gondor
Dec 22 2014, 6:54pm
Post #9 of 28
(614 views)
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I guess, but something with a lot of layers etc...unless some people are just a lot smarter than others (which is likely the case) but I would not put most of the people who professionally review movies in this category.
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Belegdir
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 7:11pm
Post #10 of 28
(605 views)
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you'd feel this way, if these are the points you wanted covered.
For me everything was great until the end. No row with Lobelia? I feel cheated in that. Otherwise I thought it was an excellent effort.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 7:19pm
Post #11 of 28
(606 views)
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I think Alfrid provided some important light comic break from
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the intensity. His character played out true to expectations, a sniveling, opportunist who probably
either disappears into the wild with his coin - possibly ending up in Bree or Gondor. Or, the EE shows him falling through some ice. The audience, in my theater, seemed to enjoy his scenes.
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Brandybuckled
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 7:24pm
Post #12 of 28
(588 views)
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That was a role that would have been better left to the "other" dwarves. n/m
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NAArP: Not An Ardent purist since Arda was dented
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 7:27pm
Post #13 of 28
(573 views)
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But, he was tied in to the Laketown governance and the Master so
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he had a role to play.
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priell3
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 7:28pm
Post #14 of 28
(592 views)
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I left the theater feeling kind of bewildered, not sure how I felt about the movie. It feels incomplete to me.
I think I can sum it up this way...
10 years ago I knew nothing of Middle-earth, my first introduction to it was when I caught part of The Two Towers on cable television. After finally watching the entire trilogy I went out and bought my first copy of The Lord of The Rings. That was an eye opener and no mistake! That led me to read The Hobbit and all things Middle-earth. The LOTR movies lost a bit of their luster after that.
When The Hobbit hit the big screen I had big expectations. I think seeing the major changes to the story with the source material so deeply entrenched in memory was a shocker.
I appreciate the movies as adaptations, the final installment just seems to lack closure. I want more.
I supposed to someone that hasn't read the books that TH was a pretty good movie. To those who are totally immersed in the books it is a mass of confusion with some highlights thrown in.
What a difference a decade makes.
MikeP
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Dec 22 2014, 7:34pm
Post #15 of 28
(582 views)
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I think that he was inserted since they killed off the Master in Laketown. If I recall correctly, in the book the Master stole all the gold AFTER they got to Dale, and was abandoned by his own men and eventually died in the wild. Kind of think that's what will happen to Alfrid in the EE.
However, I agree that it wasn't necessary and took time away from the Dwarves - like Bofur (or Bombur) talking to Bilbo before he went over the wall, I read that they did film that scene. Honestly, I don't think half the Dwarves had any lines at all! And don't get me started on the Funeral scene.
Why yes, I DO look like Anna Friel!
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moreorless
Gondor
Dec 22 2014, 8:18pm
Post #16 of 28
(533 views)
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I liked the way he didnt come to a sticky end...
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the intensity. His character played out true to expectations, a sniveling, opportunist who probably
either disappears into the wild with his coin - possibly ending up in Bree or Gondor. Or, the EE shows him falling through some ice. The audience, in my theater, seemed to enjoy his scenes.
I felt it was actually a very good choice not to have Alfid meet a sticky end as it common for such characters elsewhere. Doing so IMHO diminishes the moral weight of having them involved in the first place, the heroes rejecting acting in such a fashion even though it may ultimately put them in less danger is really what your after.
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moreorless
Gondor
Dec 22 2014, 8:22pm
Post #17 of 28
(518 views)
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that it is hard to take anyone's review seriously who has only seen a film one time. I have watched enough movies and have enough experience to know that it takes more than once to really get what is being thrown at you. The first time we see it we are literally just trying to take everything in, and it isn't until the 2nd or 3rd viewing that we can really see and feel the experience the way we should.
I actually find it much harder to give a definitive judgement on stuff like Jacksons Tolkien films on first viewing simply because I'm also dealing with my own expectation of it, not just in overall quality but in how the plot will actually be adapted.
It often takes a few days and a second viewing before I focus more on viewing the film by its own merits.
(This post was edited by moreorless on Dec 22 2014, 8:23pm)
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 8:31pm
Post #18 of 28
(501 views)
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I feel the same way. I have to deal with my own expectations first it's really hard because you go in fully expecting for things to be the way you read them or want them. This was no less true for me, as I did want to see Thorin's funeral scene, I also wanted to see the resolution to the Arkenstone/Orcrist and obviously more Beorn.
That having been said I very much was able to enjoy the movie. I really honestly thought I would not like it I'm not joking. From all the spoilers I was prepared to fully hate the film. In fact, I loved it and have loved it more each time I've seen it.
I don't know whether my expectations were reduced. I don't really think so. For one thing the fact that there were so many strong character moments for many of the actors, Luke Evans, Lee Pace, Ian McKellan, Ken Stott and obivously Richard Armitage and Martin Freeman, it really helped me to fully enjoy the movie.
Plus, the movie Thorin was hands down a much deeper and conflcted character than book Thorin. Jackson and Boyens did a terrific job writing him I think and it made the film stronger as a result.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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patrickk
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 9:36pm
Post #19 of 28
(493 views)
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...the book. The Hobbit is a very slight (as it should be) children's book and to connect it to LOTR then some work for the Apendices et al was called for. For it to be true to the slight book it would also be a slight children's movie (as it should have to be).
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Avandel
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 10:40pm
Post #20 of 28
(483 views)
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After a marathon I tiredly posted after viewing #1 that "this is one of the weirdest movies I've ever seen" - what I meant was, between the rapid fire pace of the film, and my fairly firm belief that I was gonna see a kind of dark, brooding, version of Helm's Deep, the roller-coaster pace of this film really threw me, among other things.
Two more views and I am a bit more used to it. Sometimes I think I've got a 65/35 split going on (65% positive 35% negative or stuff I would want done differently) Then all these *buts* creep in and my "personal scorecard" changes again.
Slowly I am thinking Sir Peter really needed to take his foot off the gas re BOFA, tho. DOS also had a fast pace, IMO the editing was way too tight, but there are distinct rises and falls, things have time to build.
A few key elements in BOFA - Thorin/Azog, Thorin/Bilbo, DG, and the opening are treated with a fair amount of care, and time - but it's almost as though only in repeat views I am finally able to really focus? I dunno - PJ refers to the pacing as a "fast-paced thriller" but for me it just feels like breakneck, go-for-broke speed - with a film that some place in my brain is DEMANDING a slowdown. But I wouldn't call it "jerky" either, for me the story is well-threaded as to who is doing what, and why (whether I like it or not).
PJ & co. have also said this film is for the fans - but I keep thinking - which fans? Can't be the "canonistas"....and whether people love elves or not - e.g. your favorite ME "group" I don't recall seeing anything like a viral movement ("OMG, Legolas and Tauriel MUST have huge parts in BOFA, or the movie will be ruined! More, more!"). So it wasn't the broad range of Hobbit/ME fans, really, I am sure TORn would have known. The general public?, which I guess you can call fans, except I think of a fan as more INVOLVED.
Best I can do right now is: 1) the dwarves should have had more time, lines, fighting; 2) Too much Legolas/Tauriel time; 3) I was glad to see Thranduil as a major player; 4) I think PJ needed to take his foot off the gas pedal. Just a bit. That I'm am unclear why PJ went with this "short and snappy" treatment but I would have preferred a more standard approach. Maybe that's why he used this treatment; it was something new for ME? Or perhaps because this film DOES have some harsh scenarios, it was a strategy to have tragedy but not have people dwelling on that for a general release (on the other hand, many movies are dark, and have huge runs in theaters).
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 11:09pm
Post #21 of 28
(435 views)
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Agree, I have no issue with turning this into 3 movies by
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utilizing the appendices to show Dol Guldur etc, in fact I loved that decision. I really enjoyed the movie, but as with all of PJs ME movies I have several "Was it necessary to..." questions...or "Why change" ...questions. They don't necessarily ruin the movie, but some are just curious as decisions as they seem clear they should have been closer to the book etc.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 11:21pm
Post #22 of 28
(480 views)
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Just watched the RA/LP Apple interview
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzMpBUClCmY
Which is excellent...and RA does refer jokingly to the BOFA EE as being a really long movie. I think he is basing that off what he knows must have been filmed, because who can say what PJ will do (unfinished dwarve/Thranduil scene *sigh*). But I often wonder what PJ thinks of BOFA, since - tho I didn't catch all of it re the London premiere - it was PJ's first time seeing BOFA finished? And that he sat and watched and maybe his mind was clicking away, re the EE?
LOL, just give us EVERYTHING, Sir Peter!
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patrickk
Rohan
Dec 23 2014, 2:17am
Post #23 of 28
(374 views)
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...fans are the movie fans and they have voted with their feet; especially in Europe given the box office (on a strong US$). That is who PJ is referring to.
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Avandel
Half-elven
Dec 23 2014, 2:59am
Post #24 of 28
(352 views)
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Srsly, I didn't know which fans he meant, because there's - well - US. Who belong to forums and buy merchandise and books; and then there are the general movie-goers. Who I think are also powering BOFA to the top of the season.
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elentari3018
Rohan
Dec 23 2014, 4:28am
Post #25 of 28
(351 views)
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The good stuff they did really well
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(like THorin and Bilbo, Dol Guldur, Bard)
But Tauriel/Kili made me cringe, not enough dwarves esp. the supporting dwarves like Bofur, Gloin, Bifur, Bombur, Ori, ,Nori, and no Beorn really all bugged me.
It was good overall but PJ always have scenes that bug me because of lack of fidelity to the book.
So yes, while i was excited after watching it first time, after 3rd time, i felt a bit more critical and didn't think it was like "amazing" but more like very good.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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