Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: The Arena:
Saruman the White vs. Galadriel

KingTurgon
Rohan


Dec 22 2014, 6:06pm

Post #1 of 7 (3893 views)
Shortcut
Saruman the White vs. Galadriel Can't Post

This is good side Saruman vs Galadriel (book versions). I got into a debate over who would win on Facebook so I wanted to see what you guys thought Smile

For me, I take Saruman
1) He led the White Council, not Galadriel
2) He is a Maiar (restricted, but still)
3) "It was by the devices of Saruman" that the Necromancer was driven from Dol Guldur


Nerven
Rivendell

Dec 22 2014, 6:37pm

Post #2 of 7 (3705 views)
Shortcut
. [In reply to] Can't Post

Him leading the council doesnīt mean he is magical more powerful than Galadriel. She wanted Gandalf, that kinda shows that she doesnīt took him seriously ^^ or at least distrusted him, yes heīs a Maia but the greatest of the elves are said to match the Maia and Galadriel was Feanors equal (even if unlike in endowments), weilds immense power on her own, for example tearing down the walls of Dol Guldur after the ring war and the quote, that she was "unconquerable in resistance, especially in mind and spirit" is impressive imo.
That is was "by the devices of Saruman" could also mean that it was his plan or idea or his command and Sauron was not really banished, he fled.

I believe Galadriel was more powerful, while Sarumans power was limited in his old man body form.



dubulous
Rohan

Dec 22 2014, 10:48pm

Post #3 of 7 (3683 views)
Shortcut
Also [In reply to] Can't Post

It's also said in the appendices that only Sauron himself could have conquered Lorien (presumably at the height of his powers, which is the only situation where he would have even ventured out of Mordor). There's really no indication that Saruman would have been able to defeat her. Now, whether she would have been able defeat him, I don't know. Perhaps it would have been a draw.

And if we're not talking about a physical power struggle, in terms of mind and strength of character Galadriel did at least indirectly show greater strength and wisdom Saruman, considering that both in their own way fell into a situation where they were tempted by the Ring/Sauron. Saruman succumbed, Galadriel did not.


Curunir The White
The Shire


Dec 26 2014, 2:11pm

Post #4 of 7 (3670 views)
Shortcut
I believe [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be Saruman.

Galadriel is very powerful in her own right, but I believe the Sauron quote is a little mislead. Sauron without the ring could not take on Galadriel - as she is armed with a ring of power, Nenya. Whether Galadriel would continue wearing Nenya is unknown, but I doubt she would against Sauron with the ruling ring. That is why Sauron would conquest over her, but it would have to be in person - as Galadriel could more than likely over come any Orc, Troll or Nazgul coming her way.

This is Saruman The White - Saruman before he turns astray from his mission (as the OP has said that he is GOOD - which can only be assumed throughout him). Gandalf the White was said to be second to Sauron, and Gandalf is Saruman as he should have been (or once was) - it only makes sense that good Saruman The White is second to Sauron. Hence, stronger than a ring bearing Galadriel, but I would say not by far, and I mean not by far.

Given that both are incredibly powerful, it would be a very slim battle, one in which that would perhaps end up like Gandalf vs Durin's Bane, just with a very exhausted and weakened Saruman who survived just about.

When it comes to mental strength, not very much is known about 'Good' Saruman's mental strength, we seem to really only get an overview of what happened to a corrupted Saruman as he became more and more obsessed with the ring and eventually falling and succumbing - but given Saruman's personality, and even pretty much arguing with Yavanna about bringing Radagast before leaving Valinor, I think I would have to hand it to Saruman to be able to resist whatever Galadriel may try through her mind.

So overall, I believe that Saruman would be the victor.

I am obsessed with Saruman - aspiring to know every last detail about him.

I like to think of myself as a Saru-scholar.


Nerven
Rivendell

Dec 26 2014, 2:29pm

Post #5 of 7 (3660 views)
Shortcut
. [In reply to] Can't Post

When it comes to mental strengh it is said that Galadriel was unconquerable (thatīs not restricted only among elves), especially in mind and spirit, so Saruman would have no chance beating Galadriel here, like she apparently was immune to Sarumans voice, for she always distrusted and hated him (his words) and didnīt want him as the lead of the white council.

""Galadriel, the greatest of the Eldar surviving in Middle-earth, was potent mainly in wisdom and goodness, as a director or counsellor in the struggle, unconquerable in resistance (especially in mind and spirit) but incapable of punitive action."
"Unfinished Tales "The Istari""

Whatever "incapable of punitive action" means.


Curunir The White
The Shire


Dec 26 2014, 3:01pm

Post #6 of 7 (3751 views)
Shortcut
I think [In reply to] Can't Post

It means that Galadriel was incapable of punishing other people through their minds - such as 'possessing' (Or something along those lines - making them go mad even!)

I don't think Saruman would be as stupid enough to try get into her mind, but I don't think Galadriel would be as stupid as to try the same as well - She too would have no chance of beating Saruman either while trying to get into his mind. I assume it took countless of sessions of Sauron trying to nudge Saruman (is there a quote of Sauron ever getting into Sarumans mind?) towards evil.

I am obsessed with Saruman - aspiring to know every last detail about him.

I like to think of myself as a Saru-scholar.


KingTurgon
Rohan


Jan 11 2015, 6:42am

Post #7 of 7 (3750 views)
Shortcut
About the limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

They were not as extreme as some think. In one of his letters, Tolkien states that only Gandalf (and by extension, good side Saruman) would have been able to challenge Sauron with the One Ring. Galadriel and Elrond would have built up armies and made Mordor-type states, but neither of those two would have contemplated direct confrontation. Gandalf would have however, which implies that he and Saruman were the only ones capable of matching Sauron's power.

All 4 of the things I mentioned add up to a pretty clear victory for Saruman, IMO. To clarify, the fight would be close, but I don't think Tolkien left the answer of who in the end had the greater power up for as much debate as other similar contests.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.