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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 4:46pm
Post #2 of 26
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They didnt plan on making The Hobbit after LotR...
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... so we'll see if this statement holds.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 4:51pm
Post #3 of 26
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I actually think it's gratifying that the studio seems pretty resolved that this is it. Even without access to the rest of Tolkien's canon, one could easily see the Hollywood studio system wanting to do spin-offs, etc. featuring characters from the films even if it had nothing to do with Tolkien, other than being based on his world. But if they're insisting that this is it, I'm happy about that.
The latest trilogy hasn't been treated kindly by critics and certain circles of fans, but they've still been popular by and large. Going beyond Tolkien's writings, however, would be a very quick way to soil the franchise. PJ's films will have a great legacy, and maybe sometime in the distant future, they'll do another adaptation. But, for now, I think it's good to just let the films be.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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malickfan
Gondor
Dec 20 2014, 5:01pm
Post #4 of 26
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There wasn't really enough material in the books the studios have access to for me to get overly excited the prospect of 'spin offs' or prequels with only a vague basis in Tolkien's writing anyway, and I think it would run the risk of audience fatigue or over saturation of the franchise.
I have no interest in seeing The Silmarillion adapted (not least because there are multiple unfinished versions of it in existence), but I wouldn't mind seeing adaptations of Tolkien's short stories and poetry in a few years (Roverandom and Farmer Giles would make great animated TV films...).
To be honest though, I mostly relieved there won't be any more films for the immediate future.
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Kristin Thompson
Rohan
Dec 20 2014, 5:04pm
Post #5 of 26
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Back in 1995, when Peter and Fran first conceived the project to film LOTR, they first got Miramax to try and get the Hobbit rights from Saul Zaentz so that they could do that first. MGM held part of the rights, so that fell through. Miramax did buy the LOTR rights, however, so that went forward.
New Line did buy the production rights (MGM had distribution rights) along with LOTR. I assume that all along the plan was to make The Hobbit if LOTR proved successful enough. There were obstacles along the way, but it happened eventually.
Kristin
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 5:57pm
Post #6 of 26
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Just because they had expressed interest in The Hobbit doesnt mean they had plans to do it
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Back in 1995, when Peter and Fran first conceived the project to film LOTR, they first got Miramax to try and get the Hobbit rights from Saul Zaentz so that they could do that first. MGM held part of the rights, so that fell through. Miramax did buy the LOTR rights, however, so that went forward.
New Line did buy the production rights (MGM had distribution rights) along with LOTR. I assume that all along the plan was to make The Hobbit if LOTR proved successful enough. There were obstacles along the way, but it happened eventually.
Just because there had been interest in The Hobbit expressed doesn't mean that there was any active planning on a Hobbit project going on.
I doubt New Line would say "No" if in a few years Peter and Co. came and said "We have more Tolkien-based story ideas to tell. Are you interested?"
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Kristin Thompson
Rohan
Dec 20 2014, 6:32pm
Post #7 of 26
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I didn't mean specific plans like negotiations or designs
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I just think that in the interval between 1995 and 2003 the idea of making The Hobbit was in the back of people's minds, providing LOTR did well.
Kristin
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demnation
Rohan
Dec 21 2014, 10:43am
Post #9 of 26
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For the best, but never say never
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I'd say it's too lucrative to abandon entirely, so I certainly see more films at some point. But I think the well has run dry, at least for now. But I am glad to hear that a follow up to Shadow of Mordor is a possibility. The idea of Middle-earth thriving in video games is pretty exciting, at least to me. Thanks for sharing!
"It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." Gandalf, "The Last Debate."
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 1:57am
Post #10 of 26
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And obviously, they don't have rights to more official works.
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But, never say never, but far into the future, my guess 20 years. Maybe I will still be alive!
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 2:14am
Post #11 of 26
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Re: And obviously, they don't have rights to more official works.
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They really don't need to have the rights to any additional Middle-earth material in order to extend or expand upon what they've already done filmicly, as there are still stories they could tell based just on the LotR Appendices (what material they haven't yet used) and on the 'divergent mythology' that they've developed for the film series itself (or, as Tom Shippey put it, "Tolkien as interpreted by Jackson").
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 2:25am
Post #12 of 26
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Kristin, do you know for how long New Line holds the movie rights?
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Also, management at studios changes all the time so a new studio head might say we need to get more ME material filmed.
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Kristin Thompson
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 3:07am
Post #13 of 26
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Usually the right to make a film of a literary property would be leased to a company, and if they didn't make a film within a specified period of time, the rights would revert to the owner. That obviously didn't happen here, since films were produced immediately. But I don't know whether WB holds the rights indefinitely or has to make more films or remake the existing ones to hold onto the rights.
Kristin
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 3:12am
Post #14 of 26
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... that WB and New Line retain the rights to the films that they have already made indefinitely because Tolkien sold the film rights to TLotR and TH outright.
The Tolkien Estate could possibly try to challenge/test the limits of what New Line and Warner Bros. copyrights allow them to do with the films they've already made, but I personally think that they'd end up losing (just as I think they'll ultimately end up losing this merchandising lawsuit they've filed).
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Kristin Thompson
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 3:18am
Post #15 of 26
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WB/New LIne control the copyrights on the films they've produced forever. But Saul Zaentz owned the production rights, and I don't actually know whether he sold the rights in perpetuity himself or just on a limited basis. If he sold them outright, then WB has them for as long as they choose to keep them. Of course, they could eventually sell them if they didn't want to do a sequel or remake.
The problem arises because Tolkien and his publisher sold the production/distribution rights in perpetuity. If they hadn't, the rights might well have reverted to the Tolkien Estate and Allen & Unwin (now HarperCollins).
I tend to agree with you on the current lawsuit. The grounds for it sound quiet odd to me.
I also think that the Estate probably would lose any legal attempt to get the production rights back. The contracts are quite clear. And as to limiting WB's copyrights on the films, that's a non-starter.
Kristin
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 22 2014, 5:01am
Post #16 of 26
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I suppose this means Saul Zantz Co. could still produce works from the
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remaining material either themselves or another studio if New Line / WB was not interested in the project.
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Kristin Thompson
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 5:01pm
Post #17 of 26
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I think we just don't know at this point
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The original 1969 contracts selling the production/distribution rights to United Artists in perpetuity are known, since they were introduced as evidence in the lawsuit against New Line by the Tolkien Trust. The contracts between Zaentz and Miramax, later transferred to New Line, have not been made public. Maybe they will be during the upcoming trial (if the lawsuit about digital ancillary rights ever comes to trial, that is), though I doubt it.
New Line would be required to stick to all the provisions of the 1969 contracts, which I believe they have done. Whether the rights were turned over permanently or for a fixed length of time is the unknown factor.
Kristin
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malickfan
Gondor
Dec 23 2014, 4:06pm
Post #18 of 26
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I would be open to some of the other tales being adapted in a decade or two
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Depending on the director and script of course.
I'm not a big fan of TH trilogy, and I'd really like to see other peoples interpretations of the source material. I do respect Jackson for the amount of enthusiasm and hard work he put into the films, but speaking as a Brit I feel a little uneasy about one filmmaker having dominion over Tolkien's legacy, and I don't think New Zealand's scenery or Jackson's blockbuster angle is suited to the tone or complexity of the other books (which are rather incomplete and complex to say the least), let's have a break for a few years, over saturating the market and diluting the brand with spin-offs/remakes isn't the best way to promote Tolkien's literay legacy imo.
The Children of Hurin (combined with the Wnderings of Hurin-still annoyed Christopher Tolkien left that out) would make an excellent film, but I wouldn't want to see something so tragic and dark adapted in the current climate, A faithful (in terms of tone, story and dialogue) adaptation would be very hard to sell to the studios (even assuming a director would want to work with the creative restrictions the Tolkien Estate would likely place) and honestly I kinda want to leave the first age to the imagination.
The Lay of Leithian and The Mariners Wife could work rather well, though the former is probably better suited to a stage adaptation imo.
But as I've posted elsewhere, the chances of any of the other books being adapted are very remote...
(Part of me hopes to see The Book of Lost Tales partially dramatized in the upcoming WW1 Tolkien biopic, perhaps as stylised animation along the lines of 'The Tale Of The Three Brothers' segment from Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows Part One...a man can hope...)
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Dec 23 2014, 9:09pm
Post #19 of 26
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Why would you put this in the Children of Hurin book? It's a completely separate story (and an incomplete one at that) and doesn't fit at the end of CoH. I actually don't even think that the bit that Christopher used as an epilogue should be there either, though.
I do love the Wanderings - don't get me wrong. I just completely agree with Christopher's decision to leave it out. I suppose it could have been added as an appendix. That way it's separated from the story proper but still is easily accessible (rather than the more scholarly/annotated version found in HoME). What I would prefer, though, is for Christopher to release another book filled with the Wanderings, the Fall of Gondolin (edited into a long narrative using the BoLT version where needed), and an extended Beren & Luthien (again, using any material needed from earlier version to complete it, as well as the longer prose version begun after LOTR was completed but was never published in HoME for some reason). I think even an extended version of the Ruin of Doriath could be constructed.
It's all wishful thinking, I know, but I'd love it. At the very least, I want a companion to CoH in The Fall of Gondolin because that one could easily be edited using the original version. The language isn't that different in style; Christopher even notes in BOLT 2 that the language is so similar to the later version that he's certain his father had it in front of him (or had recently reread it). It's actually shocking to me to think that Christopher hasn't released such a version yet after the publication of the Children of Hurin.
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Elentari03
Rivendell
Dec 24 2014, 4:41am
Post #20 of 26
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"I think we'd be wary about taking too much creative license with Tolkien and making up stories ourselves that weren't based on what he wrote," said Emmerich.
Hopefully they stick with it. Mr. Jackson has done a great job adapting Tolkien's work to film (even if I disagree with some of the liberties he's taken). That said, if they start inventing entire Middle Earth movies, it would likely cheapen their achievement and upset quite a few folks.
Fwiw, I don't think Children of Hurin is movie material as it is written. There is no potential for a happy ending. Quite the opposite.
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moreorless
Gondor
Dec 24 2014, 7:04am
Post #21 of 26
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You could argue that a "war in the north/Agmar" would actually be easier to make..
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But, never say never, but far into the future, my guess 20 years. Maybe I will still be alive!
You could I would say argue that at this stage a film based on the war with Angmar in the north would potentially be easier to make than an adaptation of part of the Sil. You could afterall be dealing with characters already established such as the Witchking, various elves and the wizards plus the overall tone would probably be easier tio mesh with LOTR and the Hobbit.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 24 2014, 1:47pm
Post #22 of 26
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Yes, but it would require total creation of script from
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very good writers who could seamlessly make it come across as part of the LOTR movieverse. The problem now is that all such films are prequels. It would be nice to start from far earlier times and work forward, but that is extremely unlikely. The Children of Hurin is not a large book, but it is dense in story (compared to The Hobbit). For me, it would be a great starting point with huge battles, Doriath and it sacking, Hurin and his story etc. It could easily be a trilogy with very good writers developing the main story lines.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 24 2014, 1:50pm)
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 25 2014, 2:30am
Post #23 of 26
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Once the people from this forum go to speak with P.J. for an interview, they should tell him thatwe want Hurin's children and War in North
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 25 2014, 5:10am
Post #24 of 26
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Unfortunately, the Children of Hurin rights are held by the Tolkien Estate
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so no movies can be made from it. War in the North, possible but they would have to tread carefully over what they can and cannot mention.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Dec 25 2014, 2:54pm
Post #25 of 26
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The existing flimrights do allow for derivative works. Emmerich might change his mind after the box office totals for the final Hobbit film come in.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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