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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Bilbo Baggins! You haven't aged a day!"
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ghost_matt
Rivendell

Dec 22 2014, 12:54am

Post #1 of 38 (1632 views)
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"Bilbo Baggins! You haven't aged a day!" Can't Post

That line in FOTR is really going to confuse people now when they watch the movies for the first time in order. What other scenes in LOTR don't work anymore after watching the Hobbits first, and what scenes are actually improved?


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 22 2014, 12:57am

Post #2 of 38 (1195 views)
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Just another example of why... [In reply to] Can't Post

...these films shouldn't be thought of as a true six film series. Two related trilogies with some differences between them.

Though I suppose, if you really wanted the line to work, you could just say that Gandalf means he hasn't aged since the last time they saw each other.

...though I did notice that the filmmakers left this wrinkle out of TBotFA by omitting the line at the end of the film. Tongue

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Dec 22 2014, 12:59am)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 22 2014, 12:58am

Post #3 of 38 (973 views)
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Why will it confuse people? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


deskp
Lorien


Dec 22 2014, 1:02am

Post #4 of 38 (967 views)
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eh [In reply to] Can't Post

well its a thing people say in real lfie despite people ahving aged.

Also RELATIVELY speaking, its 60 years later, hes does not look to have aged that much


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 22 2014, 1:03am

Post #5 of 38 (1072 views)
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Isn't that what the phrase always means? [In reply to] Can't Post

FOTR makes it plain Gandalf has visited the Shire in the decades between the events of TH and LOTR. Why would it mean anything other than he hasn't aged since Gandalf saw him last?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 22 2014, 1:10am

Post #6 of 38 (915 views)
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or ….. [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf could have been being courteous ??


The flames of war are upon you..


gkgyver
Bree

Dec 22 2014, 1:10am

Post #7 of 38 (935 views)
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Gollum [In reply to] Can't Post

Gollum had the ring for an eternity, and he certainly has aged, wouldn't you say? In fact, RotK shows the very transformation.

I don't see any reason why Bilbo shouldn't change his look a bit.


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 22 2014, 1:50am

Post #8 of 38 (888 views)
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I'm at a loss as to how... [In reply to] Can't Post

... this line doesn't make sense any longer with the addition of the Hobbit films.


Name
Rohan


Dec 22 2014, 1:51am

Post #9 of 38 (870 views)
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Well, besides the fact it's two different actors.... [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaugh

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 22 2014, 1:54am

Post #10 of 38 (867 views)
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Why would Gandalf be comparing Bilbo with a point 60 years earlier? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Name
Rohan


Dec 22 2014, 1:59am

Post #11 of 38 (860 views)
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I don't think he is. I'm with you. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although the line still seems sort of strange when transitioning between the two trilogies. Without thinking about it, it seems like he is referring to Freeman's Bilbo.

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Dec 22 2014, 2:20am

Post #12 of 38 (829 views)
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that's my take [In reply to] Can't Post

He's talking about younger Bilbo

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 22 2014, 2:37am

Post #13 of 38 (870 views)
Shortcut
or ….. [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf could have been being courteous ??


The flames of war are upon you..


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 22 2014, 2:46am

Post #14 of 38 (786 views)
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Ha - well that's ok then. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am notoriously unperturbed by problems which only occur if one doesn't think!


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Dec 22 2014, 2:54am

Post #15 of 38 (790 views)
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Exactly: "that's what they always say." [In reply to] Can't Post

Though, in actual fact, the actual age difference between the actors is closer to 40 years than 60, so it really works well enough.








Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Dec 22 2014, 4:21am

Post #16 of 38 (781 views)
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Exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is only a problem if people assume they haven't seen each other since The Hobbit. Frodo and Gandalf clearly know each other quite well already, so I don't see what the problem is. I'm sure people will be confused, but that will be more because they're not paying attention not necessarily because it's the film's fault.


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 22 2014, 4:24am

Post #17 of 38 (779 views)
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It's not even a problematic line if they haven't.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... seen each other since the events of The Hobbit, because Ian Holm's Bilbo doesn't look all that much older than Freeman's Bilbo. He's gotten a bit 'fuller of face', but that's about it.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 22 2014, 4:39am

Post #18 of 38 (769 views)
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And from the Appendices, we know that... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf has visited Bilbo since his adventure, multiple times.

Quote

2941 Bilbo returns home with the Ring (end of BOTFA).

2949 Gandalf and Balin visit Bilbo in the Shire (end of the book)

2953 The White Council has its last meeting. Saruman pretends to have discovered that the Ring has passed down Anduin to the Sea. He withdraws to Isengard and according to Appendix B:
"Being jealous and afraid of Gandalf he sets spies to watch all his movements; and notes his interest in the Shire. He soon begins to keep agents in Bree and the Southfarthing."

3000 Saruman is ensnared via the palantir, and his spies report that the Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers.

3001 (book time), Bilbo leaves the Shire. Gandalf visits Frodo in 3004 and does so at intervals during the next four years.

Saruman couldn't have noted Gandalf's interest in the Shire or thought he needed spies there unless Gandalf was known to be a frequent visitor and have a special interest in the place.

Silverlode



Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 22 2014, 4:44am

Post #19 of 38 (738 views)
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The films have a much different timeline... [In reply to] Can't Post

... than the books, so it wouldn't be out of the question if Gandalf HADN'T seen Bilbo in 60 years, but there are definitely things present in the films that do indicate that Gandalf has been a repeat visitor to The Shire and Bag-End in the 60-year interval between the events chronicled in the The Hobbit Trilogy and the beginning of the events chronicled in the The Lord of the Rings Trilogy.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 22 2014, 4:54am

Post #20 of 38 (729 views)
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Well, yes, there's a missing 16 years or so... [In reply to] Can't Post

but that removes the period of time during which Bilbo has left the Shire and Frodo remains. I don't think there's anything to indicate that the movie timeline and book timeline differ significantly in the 60 years between Bilbo's adventure and his departure from the Shire.

But as you say, timeline changes aside, the movies indicate that Gandalf is a fairly frequent visitor after Bilbo's adventure. For one thing, In FOTR Frodo seems to know him well already, and he's only 33 at the time of Bilbo's party, so Gandalf must have visited the Shire within that time, probably more than once, given the level of familiarity they seem to have. Also, Bilbo asks Gandalf to keep an eye on Frodo (which would be an odd thing to ask of someone you have only seen once or twice in 60 years) and he agrees, and so on.

Silverlode



Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 22 2014, 5:01am

Post #21 of 38 (727 views)
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Timeline... [In reply to] Can't Post

While you guys are talking about the book vs. movie timeline, this reminds me of another reason why I have a hard time combining all six films together. While there were certainly changes to the sequence of events in the present in the LotR films, the historical timeline of Middle-earth was pretty much kept 99.9% intact. That was not the case with The Hobbit films, which (to put it mildly) played fast and loose with the history (Azog, Mirkwood, the Ringwraiths, etc.).

When I watch LotR, I still feel that more Tolkien-faithful timeline of events as the background of the story. So my brain doesn't really want to integrate the events of The Hobbit films in there with LotR.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Dec 22 2014, 5:02am)


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 22 2014, 5:05am

Post #22 of 38 (725 views)
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I'm very much a Tolkien novice, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the only significant chronological difference that I can identify vis a vis Jackson's filmic LotR and his filmic Hobbit vs. Tolkien's history of Middle-earth is Aragorn's age at the time of the events chronicled in the Hobbit films relative to his age at the time of those films' events as depicted in the books.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 22 2014, 5:13am

Post #23 of 38 (710 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog still being alive, Mirkwood not actually being Mirkwood until the events of the Hobbit films, the entire Ringwraith plot (being killed, buried, resurrected, etc.), to name a few things.

There are multitudes of significant differences between the history in PJ's Hobbit films vs. Tolkien's history. There were barely any in LotR (Legolas mentions Isildur being the last King of Gondor I think, which was different).

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 22 2014, 5:15am

Post #24 of 38 (719 views)
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Aside from the Mirkwood thing, none of those.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... represent CHRONOLOGICAL changes to the events of Middle-earth history as set out by Tolkien, at least not from my perspective.

However, even if they did, what does it ultimately matter relative to enjoying the films as a six-part Saga the way that they're meant to be?

If you can't see the two trilogies as parts of a single collective whole, that's more of an issue with your own perceptions than it is with any decisions that Jackson and Co. have made.


(This post was edited by DigificWriter on Dec 22 2014, 5:18am)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 22 2014, 5:20am

Post #25 of 38 (700 views)
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Huh? [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are major changes to the history. Are we having an argument over semantics? I can't tell.

Point being, when watching LotR it feels very much like a story set in Tolkien's world, with Tolkien's history. The Hobbit films somewhat lack this IMO because PJ abridges and changes elements of the history of Middle-earth.

I'm not entirely against this - it's an adaptation. He can do what he wants. But it does prevent me, personally, from being able to integrate the two film trilogies.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Dec 22 2014, 5:21am)

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