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Aranarth
The Shire
Dec 21 2014, 11:18pm
Post #1 of 28
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Fili And Kili's death
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I believe that that Fili and Kili's death was not as good as they deserved. The way they die in the book ( Fighting to the death over Thorin's body) was much better than their movie death. Other than that, the movie was great!
(This post was edited by Aranarth on Dec 21 2014, 11:20pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 11:42pm
Post #2 of 28
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We have scant details on the circumstances
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Of their death in the text, other than defending Thorin, which is, after all, what they were doing on Ravenhill.
On the plus side, their deaths weren't off screen and narrated after the fact in a single line. I don't think that would have worked particularly well.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 21 2014, 11:45pm
Post #3 of 28
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The more I feel that Fili's death was heroic (and heartbreaking).
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painjoiker
Grey Havens
Dec 21 2014, 11:49pm
Post #4 of 28
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I felt the most during Fili's death actually!
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I'm not really sure why, but I did
Vocalist of the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium.
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gkgyver
Bree
Dec 22 2014, 12:09am
Post #5 of 28
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And another reason why film and book are two pairs of shoes. Their deaths were told in retrospect, and it works emotionally in a book.
On film, the climax belongs to the main hero, and that is Thorin. Having Fili and Kili fight over his body doesn't make sense in the film, the climax doesn't belong to them.
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FrostyLemon
The Shire
Dec 22 2014, 12:22am
Post #6 of 28
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I'm glad someone pointed this out. Jackson gets criticised for everything and it's like people completely forget that Tolkien can be just as flippant and sometimes even more so!
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 1:14am
Post #7 of 28
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In the book it was just a mention. Almost an afterthought. At least here we saw the deaths and aftermath fully realized.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 1:25am
Post #8 of 28
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there's no reason, in terms of drama, why Fili and Kili couldn't have died directly defending a living Thorin. Thorin could then still have a climax fitting the King Under the Mountain!
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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Azaghâl
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 1:28am
Post #9 of 28
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Even though it's just an afterthought it still describes theirdeaths very well
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When I read it there is not doubt in my mind how it went down, and the way they died was more fitting than in the movie.
*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-męnu!*
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CathrineB
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 1:28am
Post #10 of 28
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I can't believe I am saying this, but I kind of "liked" Fili's death. I mean, I love Fili (and Kili) so technically it hurts like a mother to watch, but story wise it was pretty damn well done. A bit hurried though.
I mean, they clearly wanted shock to be the main factor here, not snot and tears. It's brutal and terrible to see him murdered like that. Clearly having been beaten before we see him again (he's got blood on him before getting stabbed).
Kili's however was meant to be the tearjerker and I was surprised how that did not work. They cut Fili's death a bit too short, but Kili's too dragged out. I mean is it necessary to see them stare at each other for that long??
(This post was edited by CathrineB on Dec 22 2014, 1:30am)
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 1:33am
Post #11 of 28
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There was absolute closure to me. It was fitting and well done.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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marillaraina
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 1:36am
Post #12 of 28
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I can't believe I am saying this, but I kind of "liked" Fili's death. I mean, I love Fili (and Kili) so technically it hurts like a mother to watch, but story wise it was pretty damn well done. A bit hurried though.
I mean, they clearly wanted shock to be the main factor here, not snot and tears. It's brutal and terrible to see him murdered like that. Clearly having been beaten before we see him again (he's got blood on him before getting stabbed).
Kili's however was meant to be the tearjerker and I was surprised how that did not work. They cut Fili's death a bit too short, but Kili's too dragged out. I mean is it necessary to see them stare at each other for that long??
Actually I really think they wanted to insure that Thorin's death was THE tearjerker and that's why they wanted to completely separate Fili and Kili's death's from it. Fili and Kili's deaths are sad and cruel, though heroic, in both cases. But they really wanted to make sure there wasn't anything diluting or interfering with the impact of Thorin's death.
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 1:53am
Post #13 of 28
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Fili and Kili's deaths enhance the tragedy of Thorin's death
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especially with the previous movies' emphasis on the continuation of the line of Durin. Thorin's choices affect not only the Elves, Dwarves, and Men (and the bad guys, of course), but also his own beloved sister-sons, not just himself.
I don't really think that the idea was to highlight Thorin's death as THE tearjerker, or else Tauriel's presence and her grief over Kili's death would have been totally unnecessary.
“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”
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Bladerunner
Gondor
Dec 22 2014, 2:00am
Post #14 of 28
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...the film shows Tauriel mourning over Kili almost immediately after Bilbo is shown grieving over Thorin.
The Kili/Tauriel thing was such a clumsy distraction and interfered with so many other parts of the story during the last two films - in my opinion of course.
And another reason why film and book are two pairs of shoes. Their deaths were told in retrospect, and it works emotionally in a book.
On film, the climax belongs to the main hero, and that is Thorin. Having Fili and Kili fight over his body doesn't make sense in the film, the climax doesn't belong to them.
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marillaraina
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 2:18am
Post #15 of 28
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especially with the previous movies' emphasis on the continuation of the line of Durin. Thorin's choices affect not only the Elves, Dwarves, and Men (and the bad guys, of course), but also his own beloved sister-sons, not just himself.
I don't really think that the idea was to highlight Thorin's death as THE tearjerker, or else Tauriel's presence and her grief over Kili's death would have been totally unnecessary.
In order to enhance it can't overshadow or dilute. Their death's do enhance his tragedy, by being smaller stepping stones leading up to it, not equal to it. They were never meant to be, within the film.
Tauriel's grief scene with Kili was to start winding down the story after the big scene with Thorin, the start of the leave takings - it brings the three main elves together, it allows some real personal insight into Thranduil(even if we see him at an EE funeral that will be "offical"), through his sympathy with her and how the battle has affected him, and sends Legolas off to where we find him in LOTR.
(This post was edited by marillaraina on Dec 22 2014, 2:20am)
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DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell
Dec 22 2014, 2:33am
Post #16 of 28
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Fili's death was so well done and (imo) heartbreaking. At least Thorin and Kili get to die fighting, so I guess it was a bit less upsetting if that makes sense.
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Dec 22 2014, 4:28am
Post #17 of 28
(737 views)
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I've seen the film three times now, and I still get a sinking feeling in my stomach every time I hear the drums in that scene that lead up to his death. The more I see it the more I think it's one of the most well done scenes in the trilogy.
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DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell
Dec 22 2014, 5:18am
Post #18 of 28
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I think the first time I was just in shock (I avoided spoilers), because it was definitely harder to watch the second time when I knew what was going to happen and had had time to think about it.
sinking feeling in my stomach
describes it perfectly 
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Dec 22 2014, 7:27am
Post #19 of 28
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Exactly. Totally correct points. //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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adt100
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 4:02pm
Post #21 of 28
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There are some 'key moments' in all of the books that one could consider sacrosanct and not to be changed/severely meddled with. Whilst this is one such scene that many consider to be such, (and one I was surprised at initially) it certainly works well in the film. I also tired somewhat of criticisms of PJ and teams changes/inventions always citing them as negative, whereas holding JRRT's versions to be vastly superior. I love the Hobbit but an awful lot of it is explained with barely a passing mention, or done so in such a way that would not be particularly interesting or gripping on film. Bilbo's role in the book, the battle itself, all woefully described, largely in retelling by Gandalf, and totally NOT suitable for a film. As for Kili/Fili/Thorin's demise, it could have made for a good scene (with plenty of PJ invention) to have kili and fili dying in defence of thorin, but the way the filmed it was also a very good scene/series of scenes.
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Aranarth
The Shire
Dec 22 2014, 4:35pm
Post #22 of 28
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I understand what the movie did what it did, but one of my favorite parts in the book was the way Fili and Kili go out. I was really looking forward to seeing it on the Big Screen. I was expecting Thorin to get injured while killing Azog, and Fili and Kili guarding his body against the marching ranks of Orks. Then having Tauriel sweep down and abandon the elves to help Kili. At last in an epic shot them dying. That at least was what I was hoping for, but that wouldn't have taken us away all by surprise. I think everyone was (Spoiler alert) expecting Tauriel to die, and when she did't we are astonished (that was my response at least).
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Dec 22 2014, 6:05pm
Post #23 of 28
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I knew everything about Fili's death
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and it was a good thing because I could not have handled it if I had been caught unawares, but I was astonished by the amount of "physical pain" I felt: I reacted as I usually react before real sorrows in real life.
PJ wanted it to be a really heartbreaking death, and the more I think about it, the more I find it one of the great scenes of the Middle Earth Saga, keeping up with Boromir's death.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Dec 22 2014, 7:01pm
Post #24 of 28
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With regard to Boromir's death I felt very little – but I think this was because I had seen Sean Bean in so many spiv roles before FotR that the death just didn't seem very credible to me.
For me Thorin's death, on the other hand, is the most moving of all the deaths in the ME films.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 22 2014, 7:49pm
Post #25 of 28
(538 views)
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What struck me about Fili's death
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is how real it is. The way you can hear the air leave his lungs when he's impaled, how his body jerks from the pain, but then goes completely limp, and. last how you can hear the quick last inhale and exhale of breath before he's gone. To a point Kili and Thorin do some of these things upon their deaths, but I think because Fili is being held up by Azog, in a standing position, there seems to be a bit more emphasis on the process of what ones body does physically upon death.
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