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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Question Regarding Lore, Spells, etc.

Girdle of Melian
Lorien

Dec 21 2014, 6:20pm

Post #1 of 5 (797 views)
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Question Regarding Lore, Spells, etc. Can't Post

The 3 Elven Rings were made by Celembrior (my spelling may be off). However, he used Sauron's designs and teachings.

a) Where does the power come from? Sauron himself or Celembrior? Whenever Elves use songs, healing, or chants, etc...does it come from an external source, or depending on the inherent power of each individual?

Many Elves learned from the Valar and Maiar, Galadriel in particular learned directly from Melian (though I am not sure what Melian would have taught the Valar would have not covered; or maybe that's a different thing). Hence, when she uses a lore that Melian may have taught her...is she drawing upon the power of Melian or her own?

Just curious. Not sure if I make the comparison logical..lol


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 21 2014, 9:43pm

Post #2 of 5 (533 views)
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I've moved this to the Reading Room as I think you're more likely to get answers here. :) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Nerven
Rivendell

Dec 21 2014, 9:46pm

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. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it depends on the elf how succesful they are in doing magic, I think it is a talent and elves are born with that, Luthien was born with that and I doubt she borrowed the power from her mom, same with Feanor and Galadriel, those are imho spriritually the most powerful, thatīs why they are good doing magics, I think thatīs rare among the elves, not your everyday elf can do that, maybe some minor spells.

Yes Melian teached Galadriel and it must have something that the Valar hadnīt taught her, something *forbidden*^^, cause everythng else according to Tolkien she,aswell the other Noldor knew already, but I think that was only possible because she had a potent spirit from the beginning, whould she have chosen a hobbit as pupil, she probably would still to this day try to teach him/her something.


Plurmo
Rohan

Dec 22 2014, 6:50am

Post #4 of 5 (517 views)
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Some conjectures [In reply to] Can't Post

Caveat: this whole post is mere personal speculation.

My underdeveloped conjectures are that...

The lore of making gems and enclosing things and thoughts into it would come from Aulë.

The power of each Elven Ring would be drawn from a specific Vala. Their magic rite takes the form of a reverence (not mockery) for a certain natural phenomenon - there is no valar consent for it:

Nenya - starlight radiating through aether - Varda.
Vilya - blue light scattering on the cleanest air - Manwë.
Narya - solar light sinking behind ocean water - Ulmo.

In the case of a Silmaril - Light of the Trees encased in tears of Nienna (literal) - lux aeterna lore from Fëanor - Power drawn from the three female Aratar: Varda, Yavanna, Nienna - Full valar consent for the object itself - no valar consent for possession.

One Ring - the alloying of Sauron's spirit with enriched gold - lore of spirit transfer to substance from Melkor - lore of enrichment of substance from Aulë - lore of spiritual enthralment from Sauron (and a lot more) - Power drawn from Morgoth's Ring, Power drawn from Morgoth himself (destructive component) and from Sauron (dominative component).

Regarding Galadriel - the Mirror and the Phial - power from Galadriel under the grace of Ulmo - fëanorian-inspired Galadriel lore for the Mirror - Ulmo lore for the Phial.

Elven "songs, healing, or chants" - personal elven power (under Valar grace when it applies)

The lore of Melian seems to be behind the way Galadriel employs her Ring, as can be seen in the protective shield of Lorien (the Girdle) and time arrest perception (Nan Elmoth encounter with Thingol.)

These are topics for ample exploration, all of them without any solid base (that I know of) and very questionable (especially by The Inquisition,) but fun to think about (not so much when being burned at the stake.)Smile

PS: Don't Try Making Any of This at Home!!!


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Dec 23 2014, 8:59am

Post #5 of 5 (536 views)
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It's more art than science. [In reply to] Can't Post

So, it's like asking where music comes from: you can learn techniques, but technique alone doesn't make a musician, let alone a composer. The same is true for other arts.

Remember, the Elves are immortal, and the ones we know have been around for thousands of years. You learn some basic techniques and then take them off into directions entirely based on your own innate creativity, developing your arts over many years.

There's also the fact that to a person who doesn't understand how something works, it looks like magic. As Galadriel herself observed, "Elvish magic" to her is just a natural art that she's learned so long ago it's just part of life to her.







 
 

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