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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 6:44pm
Post #1 of 27
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War in the North
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I would like to hear your views on an obvious next film (or films) on ME: War in the North.
Just think about it. Everything is set up and ready to be used: Erebor, Dain, Bard's line (grandson), Thranduil, Mirkwood (even Tauriel can be used here), Radagast, Galadriel, Lothlorien, Dol Guldur, Ringwraiths, Easterlings and so on.
Not only is everything set up to be used, but if this film/films is not made the 6-film saga that PJ is envisioning will feel incomplete. What are all these people in ME doing during the war of the Ring? Why are they not helping Gondor? What happens to Erebor, Mirkwood? A final film/films can answer these questions and make a cinematic portrayal of the end of the third age complete.
Another plus IMO for these film makers that love ME, is the fact that all these events are described only in broad strokes from Prof. Tolkien, so there is room there for introducing characters and situations that will not be criticized as “not in the book”.
I think there is a real chance here for ME lovers!
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 6:55pm
Post #2 of 27
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"Interquels" are a tricky thing
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Telling a story that takes place within another story (an "interquel", if you will) is tricky, and you risk stalling the forward progression of the wider narrative.
If telling the story of the War in the North could be done in such a way that it framed things as a 'sequel' to the LotR Trilogy, I'd be for it, but it would be tricky to have it take place concurrently to what we see in the Trilogy itself.
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malickfan
Gondor
Dec 20 2014, 6:59pm
Post #3 of 27
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I think that would work better as a videogame personally
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I just don't see the point in making a film out of such flimsy material, it's essentially exploring completely new ground for whoever would make such a film, there is not 'goal' or character arc for most of the characters in question, the whole idea just sounds like a bunch a deleted scenes cobbled together.
It would work better as a videogame imo, becuase it's a totally new non-canon story I think it would be more fun to explore it yourself than see someone else interpretation (there is something to be said in quitting whilst you are ahead an leaving things to the imginaition...)
If people want to find these answers to those questions...why can't they just read the books? To me the fates of secondary characters or 'off screen' background stories aren't things that need to be explored, often depth is brought to a story by what is hinted at, not what is shown.
In anycase, New Line's president recently announced they have no plans for any further films (at the moment at least):
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/.../10658402/story.html
A grumpy reply admittedly, but I'm sure others here might think differently...
(This post was edited by malickfan on Dec 20 2014, 7:01pm)
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 7:03pm
Post #4 of 27
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Emmerich's statement doesnt mean much
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That statement doesn't actually mean all that much. There may not be plans to tell more ME-based stories currently, but I doubt New Line would say "No" if, in a few years, Peter and Co. realize that they have ideas on how to tell more stories in their cinematic version of Middle-earth and approach the studio with said ideas.
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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 7:06pm
Post #5 of 27
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The way I picture it, the same way as the Hobbit is essentially presented as a flashback inside the LOTR time frame, the War in the North could be presented as a flashback as well, say just before the Elves leave for Valinor at the end of ROTK.
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 7:12pm
Post #6 of 27
(758 views)
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The way I picture it, the same way as the Hobbit is essentially presented as a flashback inside the LOTR time frame, the War in the North could be presented as a flashback as well, say just before the Elves leave for Valinor at the end of ROTK.
That might work, but that begs the question of 'from whose perspective are you telling the story?' and the question of 'how do you set up the flashbacks?'
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malickfan
Gondor
Dec 20 2014, 7:14pm
Post #7 of 27
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But I've read New Line/WB's option on the rights runs out soon, given the unpleasant legal history between the Saul Zaentz Company and Warner Bros, if a suitable story can't be worked out in time they might decide to license the rights to a different studio next time (I'm pretty sure films have to be based directly on character/stories from TH/LOTR a spin off film based only vaguely on the book my run into opposition from the Tolkien Estate)
Would Jackson even want to come back for 'spin off films' is the real question, he's already spent two decades in cinematic Middle Earth, I would have thought he'd be interested in moving on personally (I'd actually quite like him to, his long rumoured Gallipoli film could be interesting, just because he was first dosen't mean he should have dominion over the way the books are interpreted for a modern cinematic audience)
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 7:21pm
Post #8 of 27
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... Jackson, New Line, and WB own copyright on this particular iteration of the story independent of any licensing agreements that may or may not be in place, so I don't think they'd run into any LEGAL objections from the Tolkien Estate were they to decide that there were more stories to be told in their particular version of Tolkien's world.
Christopher Tolkien and others might object on opinionated grounds, but I don't think they'd have any legal standing (I'm pretty sure their 2012 suit over merchandising issues relative to the films themselves was either settled out of court or thrown out entirely).
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malickfan
Gondor
Dec 20 2014, 7:27pm
Post #9 of 27
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Actually the 2012 lawsuit in still ongoing
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It's a shame so much bad blood has come of these filmshttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/warner-bros-wants-disqualify-tolkien-710764[./url]
[:/]
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 7:36pm
Post #10 of 27
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Re: Actually the 2012 lawsuit in still ongoing
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Hmm.
I personally think that the Tolkien Estate is fighting a losing battle here and would be better-served to just settle the matter out-of-court, but what do I know?
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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 7:40pm
Post #11 of 27
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That might work, but that begs the question of 'from whose perspective are you telling the story?' and the question of 'how do you set up the flashbacks?' You are right. Galadriel could be a choice. But, if it came to that, I am sure the filmmakers would find a suitable way to do it.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 7:44pm
Post #12 of 27
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I suppose the question is what would the story be?
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malickfan
Gondor
Dec 20 2014, 7:45pm
Post #13 of 27
(690 views)
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...It's not really any of our business, though t's certainly proving confusing investigating these matters on the internet...
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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 7:48pm
Post #14 of 27
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Peter Jackson has said in a recent interview that he wouldn't want to go back to ME straight away, but in 2 or 3 years time he might be willing to:
If I had to start tomorrow, I would say no, because I definitely would appreciate a break to clear my head and get my little New Zealand stories done, which is where my passion and my heart is heading now. But ask me in two or three years, and I'd probably say yes. It would be hard to see another filmmaker go into this world, because I certainly have an emotional ownership of it.
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sharku
Rivendell
Dec 20 2014, 7:52pm
Post #15 of 27
(683 views)
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It's a shame so much bad blood has come of these filmshttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/warner-bros-wants-disqualify-tolkien-710764[/url] 
Ahhh-the irony (and goldy and silvery). Akin to the accursed nature of the dragon's hoard in Erebor itself, are the spoils of Tolkien's writings and subsequent spin offs. An evil lies upon the profit of those spin offs, and much ill will is caused by man's desire of wealth above all else.
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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 7:54pm
Post #16 of 27
(715 views)
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Three story arcs: Lothlorien, Mirkwood, Battle of Dale
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(This post was edited by yannischatzi on Dec 20 2014, 7:56pm)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 8:16pm
Post #17 of 27
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In the same way that BOFA is a backdrop to a bit of the story about Bilbo and Thorin and greed etc.
It's what the story would be that I'm wondering.
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 8:19pm
Post #18 of 27
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Given the way Jackson's LotR Trilogy ends...
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... there doesn't seem to be any ORGANIC way to setup a 'flashback narrative' detailing the War in the North the way that Peter and Co. did for The Hobbit relative to The Fellowship of the Ring.
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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 8:35pm
Post #19 of 27
(658 views)
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about the relationship between Dain and Brand, Dain and Thranduil, Galadriel having to deal with the Nazgul that took residence in Dol Guldur and ultimately the threat of ultimate destruction before the end.
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 8:39pm
Post #20 of 27
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How would you set all of that up, though, and do so in a way that fit organically into the existing structural context of the LotR Trilogy?
It's not solely about figuring out what story could possibly be told; it's also about figuring out how to organically fit the telling of said story into the existing framework of what Peter and Co. have already done, particularly with regards to the LotR Trilogy.
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yannischatzi
The Shire
Dec 20 2014, 8:53pm
Post #21 of 27
(631 views)
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If PJ and co. thought this would be worth filming I have no doubt they would find a way to fit it in nicely. What I am saying is that since every piece of the puzzle is already set up in LOTR and the Hobbit, the fitting in wouldn't be that hard.
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 8:59pm
Post #22 of 27
(628 views)
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If PJ and co. thought this would be worth filming I have no doubt they would find a way to fit it in nicely. What I am saying is that since every piece of the puzzle is already set up in LOTR and the Hobbit, the fitting in wouldn't be that hard.
I have to disagree that every piece of the puzzle for telling a War in the North story is in place thanks to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, as you would have to figure out where you could set a narrative bookend sequence that could link the story to TLotR that wouldn't feel out of place.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 9:10pm
Post #23 of 27
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I'm probably not explaining awfully well.
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What I'm trying to ponder is the plot line.
So in both TH and LOTR we have a quest narrative (to destroy the ring or reclaim the treasure); we have a journey narrative (as both parties explore and overcome hurdles); we have a villain to overcome (Sauron and a subverted Smaug); we have the rags to riches story (in Aragorn and Thorin becoming kings); we have a partial mystery plot (in DG); we have partial redemption plots ( such as with Theoden)
So I'm wondering about similar options for a potential plot line.
I guess a journey isn't obvious as the characters you mention are already where they need to be.
A quest maybe - but who and why? One tricky aspect for any storyline is that this conflict whilst important in potential isn't the decisive one - and we've already seen the wider outcome of the struggles in the same period.
A rags to riches isn't obvious as Dain and Galadriel are already in position. Maybe there could be something about Brand becoming a leader but it's not immediately obvious what barriers would stand in his way. It's also rather close to Bard's existing story.
Galadriel facing a couple of Nazgul at DG might seem awfully similar to TH but just at a lower difficulty setting, as it were.
A mystery doesn't leap out. Maybe a redemption - but I'm not sure who or why.
I hope that does a bit of a better job of illustrating what I mean? Fingers crossed!
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Hobbity Hobbit
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 11:02pm
Post #25 of 27
(576 views)
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So they don't have to overstrech stories
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A History of Middle-earth TV Show, and they can also show the trilogies at the end to celebrate, most of the things in the Appendices aren't too long. I wish we could see Frodo and Bilbo again, but I don't think there isn't any stories otherwise then the coming EE that can show them. Though I'm not sure if they'd have the same impact, so it might be better to make new ones.
"As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers,
I will say this last goodbye."-from "The Last Goodbye"
"Why does it hurt so much?"
"Because it was real."
(PLEASE DON'T HURT ME)
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above gold, the world would be a merrier place."-BotFA/The Hobbit
(This post was edited by Hobbity Hobbit on Dec 20 2014, 11:03pm)
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