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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I wanted to do terrible things to Azog… very terrible things..

ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 5:33pm

Post #1 of 6 (694 views)
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I wanted to do terrible things to Azog… very terrible things.. Can't Post

When he slaughtered Fili and tossed him over the cliff without even a hint of conflict or remorse. Still having a hard time coming to terms with the deaths of these three good dwarves. My question is… orcs used to be elves so how did they become personifications of pure depravity; so utterly evil.


(This post was edited by ecthelionsbeard on Dec 20 2014, 5:42pm)


Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 20 2014, 6:09pm

Post #2 of 6 (347 views)
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Did all Orcs used to be Elves? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought only some of them were (not Azog or Bolg)?


NateGate
Rivendell


Dec 20 2014, 6:33pm

Post #3 of 6 (332 views)
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The original... [In reply to] Can't Post

...orcs were elves, turned evil by Morgoth. After that they became there own species. So no, the orcs of the 3rd Age are not elves, they are the long descendants of them.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 6:37pm

Post #4 of 6 (314 views)
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**sigh of relief** [In reply to] Can't Post

This could have been a very disturbing thread … That being said, yes they did really make you wanna kill him! I think Bolg more than Azog though. I loved Bolg's death almost more than Azog's.


The flames of war are upon you..

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Dec 20 2014, 6:38pm)


Avandel
Half-elven


Dec 20 2014, 6:40pm

Post #5 of 6 (303 views)
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It's easy to hate what you will never be, can't be [In reply to] Can't Post

We see that all too often in modern society - assuming orcs (in general) corruptions of elves. I don't know enough Tolkien to really comment - but vaguely remember Azog being something "special", as envisioned by the filmmakers. Also, his master is the great evil Sauron:
:

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All that the Valar made, Melkor looked to destroy; long before the Elves awoke, he threw down the Lamps of the Valar, destroying their dwelling in Almaren. They removed to Valinor, and fearing for the coming Elves, made war on Melkor and imprisoned him for three ages. By the time he was released, the Elves had come to Valinor; Melkor turned back to his evil ways; slaying Finwë and stealing the Silmarils, he destroyed the Two Trees of Valinor and fled back to his ancient fortress of Angband in the north of Middle-earth.

Sauron, the eponymous Lord of the Rings, was a fallen Maia, the creator of the One Ring, and the most trusted lieutenant of his master Morgoth (Melkor, the first Dark Lord). After Morgoth's defeat in the First Age, Sauron became the second Dark Lord and strove to conquer Arda, creating the Rings of Power for this purpose. In the Second Age, he was defeated in the War of the Last Alliance by the last line of defense: elves and men.


And it may be that these orcs are one of Tolkien's personifications of the evils of war that he saw, up close and personal, a mindless evil with no pity, remorse, empathy - just a will to slaughter.

As for the film, yesFrown.

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Still having a hard time coming to terms with the deaths of these three good dwarves.


It's poor comfort, but I'm glad Thorin stares into Azog's eyes and pushes Orcrist down, right through the ice. Unimpressed


(This post was edited by Avandel on Dec 20 2014, 6:41pm)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 20 2014, 7:28pm

Post #6 of 6 (275 views)
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Actually, there is no definitive answer. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien went through various versions of Orc ontologies (corrupted elves, Orc women, a few boldogs, corrupted men) in various combinations and none really emerges as a settled or final answer.

 
 

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