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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 12:45am
Post #1 of 10
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Would the Dwarves have been justified, (spoilers,)
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Seen as it was just Thorin been pig-headed and stubborn about the treasure and the entire company was against him, might they have been justified in just quietly assassinating him if Thorin had gone too far, or if that is a bit too extreme gently removing Thorin from office? There are precedents for this happening in the medieval world, even with absolute monarchs, Richard and Edward the 2nd's for example.
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Azaghâl
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 12:52am
Post #2 of 10
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In the book most of the dwarfs actually agree with Thorin.
*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*
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Miss-Merriweather
Bree
Dec 20 2014, 1:00am
Post #3 of 10
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They would have been well-advised
[In reply to]
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to knock Thorin out and take him as far away as possible from Erebor so he'd turn normal again...
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 1:18am
Post #4 of 10
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but that only depends on whether or not "curing" from the dragon sickness is possible once it sets in....
Would be an interesting question if it were curable or not 
On a side note, in regards to the OP's question, I would say no- they were just as ticked off about the Arkenstone being in Bard's possession as he was (though maybe not because they were mad)- as Kili yells to the two down below, it is the legacy of their people.
Thorin was mad because of the lust for gold and treasure and the Arkenstone. However, the others were pissed because a piece of their people's legacy and the symbol of their house was, by all rights, stolen from them by Bilbo and passed off to the others.
If it had been just Bard there, I think the company wouldn't have hesitated to work with him (except for Thorin, obviously). Fili and Kili especially, due to their being in town with the dragon attack (and because Bard took them in and Tauriel healed Kili) would have been MORE than willing to keep words and give Bard what was promised. They are honorable, and weren't mad, and would have done so.
The thing that pissed them all off (and what resulted in them yelling at those below)- was that the elven army was there. NONE of them felt a siege and threat of war from the ELVES was justified. If it had been just Bard, fine. But Thranduil imprisoned them for no good reason, then showed up with demands for compensation afterward with an army at his back. And that the Arkenstone was stolen.
It has nothing to do with madness with the others- it was all about honor (and theft no doubt is highly dishonorable amongst dwarves). And Thorin at that point had none.
Would they have been justified in assassination? NO. Thorin is kin to half of the company and king to the others. They would not slay their own flesh and blood no matter how crazy he was.
Should they take Thorin as far away from there as they could (banishment?) YES. Would it have cured him? No way to really tell for sure....
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 3:14am
Post #5 of 10
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I must stick up for Thranduil a bit here...
darn Dwarves molested his folk at their feasting, three times invading a party they had not been invited too...
they refused to explain what the heck they were doing in Thranduil;s forest...
and they were thrown into very nice accomodations (probably because Thranduil realized they looked a bit starved)...
there is a good deal of ancient racial tensions at play in the siege scenes... if it had just been Bard, things might have gone a bit differently, but, oh well...
I suspect Tolkien had seen a bit of this sort of thing between his various experiences in WW1 and even in the academic field.......
"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Dec 20 2014, 3:51am
Post #6 of 10
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Tolkien's dwarves are all about clan and kinship and loyalty and banding together against outsiders. It's hard to imagine what it would take to cause any kind of rebellion against a king, especially the King of the Longbeards, the direct descendant of Durin. In both the book and the movie Dain comes immediately to Thorin's aid, no questions asked, and the thought of going to war with the elves doesn't seem to bother him or his soldiers in the least, especially with a mountain full of dwarf gold at stake. The movie makes it seem as though the other dwarves in Thorin's company aren't that interested in the gold, but in the book they are very interested and very ready to defend it.
__________________
Gold is the strife of kinsmen,
and fire of the flood-tide,
and the path of the serpent.
(Old Icelandic Fe rune poem)
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 5:46am
Post #7 of 10
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I was talking movie verse, not book verse
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in the book he certainly is partially justified!
But in the movie, Thranduil shouldn't have even been there, and certainly not with an army at his back. He wasn't the "long will I tarry" from the book- he was the "dwarves dead now or later- meh, how about now- either way, I get my necklace". That's all I'm saying....
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 3:38pm
Post #8 of 10
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where you the one not able to see the movies because of Jury things
so glad you saw it now
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 8:47pm
Post #9 of 10
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my Jury panel got cancelled!!!!!! Thank goodness- I couldn't have done it due to health reasons anyway (that they didn't accept as an excuse- I have a chronic illness that is "symptom based" not "test proven" so it's one of those "invisible illnesses" that are definitely there but hard to prove).
But I would have been able to see it Tuesday night anyway- Jury Duty is done at 4:30 in the evening, and the showing I went to was at 9 pm. And I am glad that I saw it for sure!!! I've gobbled up spoilers left and right, am not the most patient person, and waited a year- I was going to see this movie if it killed me lol!
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 10:25pm
Post #10 of 10
(305 views)
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"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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