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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Smaug is dead. Sauron doesn´t care?

Danielos
Rohan

Dec 19 2014, 9:48pm

Post #1 of 13 (1298 views)
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Smaug is dead. Sauron doesn´t care? Can't Post

When the orch army leaves Dol Guldur Smaug is still alive. So I suppose the army is going to Erebor not just for the gold and the strategic position but to try to get Smaug in Sauron´s camp. Smaug dies, and yet Azog and the army just keep on with no mention of Smaug at all!
This is what happens when you change things around in a novel. you have to think carefully so you don´t create loose ends and absurd plot holes!


nymmerod
The Shire


Dec 19 2014, 9:51pm

Post #2 of 13 (920 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

that's why Gandalf makes that comment about the enemy wanting the mountain as a strategic location as well.

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=96226


MasterOrc
Rivendell


Dec 19 2014, 10:21pm

Post #3 of 13 (843 views)
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I would suspect that... [In reply to] Can't Post

word of Smaug's death had reached AZOG while marching on Erebor. I'd speculate after BOLG reported mentioning his interactions with the Elves, that AZOG then ordered BOLG to ride north to retrieve the army from Gundabad knowing it would be needed to take the mountain minus Smaug.


kiwifan
Rohan

Dec 19 2014, 11:18pm

Post #4 of 13 (714 views)
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Yes, that makes sense to me [In reply to] Can't Post

Good point!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 2:36am

Post #5 of 13 (568 views)
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i'm not sure your point is valid on this one [In reply to] Can't Post

ok so...sauron sends out all his orcs to erebor and smaug dies….so sauron should just send a rider out to azog to tell him to turn around and march back to dol-guldur??? What would that accomplish? At this point sauron has come out of the closet, gandalf knows he's hiding there so eventually Elrond/Thranduil would march to dol-guldur with a army and kill all his orcs. Sauron wasn't relying solely on smaug winning the war for him, he had thousands of orcs, trolls, bats ect…


The flames of war are upon you..


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 2:45am

Post #6 of 13 (549 views)
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There was never really any overt connection... [In reply to] Can't Post

... established between Sauron/The Necromancer and Smaug, in spite of Gandalf - correctly - believing that Sauron's attention was focused on the Lonely Mountain and Erebor, so whether or not Smaug was alive or dead really wouldn't have had any bearing on whether or not Azog and Bolg and their armies marched on the mountain.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2014, 5:44am

Post #7 of 13 (506 views)
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right, it had more to do with Thorin reaching the lonely mountain. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


The flames of war are upon you..


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 20 2014, 6:58am

Post #8 of 13 (502 views)
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Except in the EE of DoS [In reply to] Can't Post

Where Thrain tells Gandalf that Sauron and Smaug are in league.


DigificWriter
Lorien

Dec 20 2014, 7:04am

Post #9 of 13 (496 views)
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Thrain may claim that Sauron and Smaug are in league with one another.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but there's no actual evidence of this, and even if Thrain was correct, there's still no reason why Smaug's death would have any effect on Azog and Bolg's activities.


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 20 2014, 7:25am

Post #10 of 13 (506 views)
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Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes. But what was the original plan then? Would Azog enter the mountain and try to negotiate with Smaug?


sharku
Rivendell

Dec 20 2014, 9:48am

Post #11 of 13 (453 views)
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Not only Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yes. But what was the original plan then? Would Azog enter the mountain and try to negotiate with Smaug?


Similar to the valarauko in Moria, or Shelob, it is fun to speculate on how Sauron may have tried to influence these other malevolent beasties to his sway so that they might act more concertedly than simply independently minded spawn of Morgoth.


(This post was edited by sharku on Dec 20 2014, 9:52am)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Dec 20 2014, 3:24pm

Post #12 of 13 (389 views)
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Presumably. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug would have been a devastating weapon as part of that army. Certainly it's hard to imagine he wouldn't have altered the result of the BOFA.

However, even without him Azog stood a solid chance. Once the army was revealed and Sauron's hand has been tipped, surely there would be no advantage to turning around and heading back to DG!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 20 2014, 5:05pm

Post #13 of 13 (400 views)
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Even with Smaug dead... [In reply to] Can't Post

It is not to Sauron's benefit to allow the Dwarves to reclaim the Mountain. Erebor holds an important strategic position in the North and once friendships between Elves and Dwarves and Men are renewed, Sauron's hopes for immediate invasion are dashed.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

 
 

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