|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Dec 19 2014, 1:26pm
Post #151 of 208
(1674 views)
Shortcut
|
Question. in order to go home, as Thranduil originally planned, as he said to Gandalf, does he have to cross Rivenhill or is Rivenhill a completely different direction? Like I mentioned before, I know nothing about LOTR/TH so if it's not the direction he would have to head in, it's for my mind a done thing he went there to search for his son. Quick answer: No, different direction.
If you imagine yourself looking at Erebor, re Thorin's mape with the mountain at the top (north), Ravenhill is in fact extending "in front" of Erebor southwards, skewed a little more to the east than west. But Mirkwood is to the west and south of Erebor.
But I'm referencing the lay of the land in book-verse. iirc of the battle-plan PJ shared with a mag/interview site, while the landmarks are on slightly different coordinates, the general lay of the land should still be correct.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy.  " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan) 
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them.  )
  Thranduil Appreciation. Threadcount: XXVII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII | XXIV | XXV | XXVI
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Dec 19 2014, 1:35pm)
|
|
|
swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Dec 19 2014, 2:07pm
Post #152 of 208
(1638 views)
Shortcut
|
"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
|
|
|
Me85
Rivendell
Dec 19 2014, 6:15pm
Post #155 of 208
(1641 views)
Shortcut
|
I already knew parts of it but not this detailed. So let me get this straight. The gems were given by Thranduil to Thror? I was never sure but guessed they came from Erebor. Thanks for all the pics and info everybody!
|
|
|
mariel
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 9:10pm
Post #156 of 208
(1612 views)
Shortcut
|
Have finally managed to get to see it and find myself agreeing with a lot of what you've said in this and other posts.
I found it disappointing that the film really didn't explain any of the back story re Thranduil that has made him what he is and what his relationship with Legolas is. The script writers have invented a back story for him, but I think this should be shown in the film and you should not have to rely on reading about it elsewhere to understand it.
Having said that, I did thoroughly enjoy the film for the most part - except too much Alfrid for my taste. I hope the obvious unresolved bits are shown in the EE and we are not disappointed (like we were about the lack of extra Thranduil bits in the DOS EE)
|
|
|
Me85
Rivendell
Dec 19 2014, 9:56pm
Post #157 of 208
(1619 views)
Shortcut
|
out of all the ME films i have only really needed to see the EE for BOTFA
[In reply to]
|
|
|
Don't get me wrong. I have always wanted to see the EEs and I consider those the "real" movies but i have always been satisfied with the TE. Not so with BOTFA. Too many missing pieces/endings. It's the only movie i really have issues with. However, i still love it and it's my favorite out of the hobbit movies.
Btw someone said there would be 10min of Beorn in the EE. Now i do think he should get more screen time in the EE, perhaps more so than the others since we only got to see him for 0.5s but that doesn't leave much time for the others....
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Dec 19 2014, 9:58pm
Post #158 of 208
(1628 views)
Shortcut
|
I have seen BOTFA and I loved it so much! *bounces up and down* I'm on my phone and looking for a Christmas tree right now so I can't gush all over the place about it yet, but when I can get to my computer I'll be back! With thoughts! Gaaaaah! So much love! So many tears too, but love along with the tears!
"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.
The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.
Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"
|
|
|
Me85
Rivendell
Dec 19 2014, 10:17pm
Post #159 of 208
(1619 views)
Shortcut
|
Glad you loved it. Curious to what your thoughts are.
|
|
|
mariel
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 10:33pm
Post #160 of 208
(1606 views)
Shortcut
|
While I agree there should be more Beorn, I wonder where they're going to find 10 minutes worth.
The frustration for me re the DOS EE was knowing scenes had been filmed, particularly the dwarves being brought to face Thranduil (as in the book), but then not including them and only seeing the green screen version in the extras.
|
|
|
On_the_partyelk
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 11:11pm
Post #161 of 208
(1610 views)
Shortcut
|
The fortunes of the world will rise and fall, but here in this kingdom we will endure!
|
|
|
On_the_partyelk
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 11:30pm
Post #162 of 208
(1597 views)
Shortcut
|
Thanks, for clarification.
So, this means: he went purposely to Rivenhill and the purpose is not to go home. Not many possibilities why he went there, then, I assume.
The fortunes of the world will rise and fall, but here in this kingdom we will endure!
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 3:24am
Post #163 of 208
(1634 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Gonna dump some movie reaction here, with emphasis on Thranduil and elves *SPOILERS galore*
[In reply to]
|
|
|
Ok, I'm back home now, I've got my Christmas tree, and even though I've calmed down a bit from the initial excitement, I'm ready to do a bit of a flow-of-consciousness reaction to the movie. This may or may not be in order of how things occurred in the movie but it's kinda rambly and long-winded about the specific characters too:
First of all I LOVED the whole Smaug destroying Laketown sequence! It was totally how I pictured it in my head and I loved how they did it! Can you believe Bard actually used his own (very, very, brave) son's shoulder to shoot the arrow?! AAAAHHHH!!!! I'll admit I was already getting teary when Bain was looking all scared and Bard told him "Just look at me son. Only look at me." *sniff* Then Smaug got shot and did exactly what I pictured in my head when reading the book and flew up into the air and then fell back down onto Laketown! And onto the Master. (Couldn't have happened to a more deserving person ) My only complaint is that I pictured Smaug spouting fire into the air a few more times before he died...You know...for epic-looking dragon-death-scene's sake.
Then, I thought they played Thorin's madness really well, it was creepy and foreboding and RA is SUCH a great actor! I also loved that Thorin ended up redeeming himself before charging out of the mountain and I got weepy again when Gandalf said the dwarves were rallying to their king.
I was really really really happy with Bilbo and MF is SUCH a great actor too! He played all the subtle emotional nuances so well and there were so many sweet Bilbo moments like when Thorin actually stopped being crazy for a minute because of Bilbo and the little acorn he wanted to plant in his garden. *sniff* And I really loved it when Bilbo sneaked out of the mountain and did just like in the book and gave the Arkenstone to Thranduil and Bard. (I KNEW Thranduil would know he was the one who let the dwarves out!!!) And then Thorin's death scene....Oooooh, Thorin's death scene. I had gotten misty eyed though several parts of the movie, but I hadn't actually cried until Bilbo was with dying Thorin and Thorin was telling him to go plant his acorn and if more people valued home over hoarded gold, etc, and then he dies and Bilbo's trying to tell him to hold on, he'll be alright, and the eagles are coming and then he realizes Thorin is really gone and starts weeping, and I just couldn't hold back anymore. I had to cry too. Then I kinda kept crying until Bilbo got back home and I'm really glad they included the auction scene and they showed him getting the silver spoons back from Lobelia Sackville-Baggins and then the transition between younger Bilbo and old Bilbo was the perfect transition between TH and LOTR.
And speaking of crying, I wasn't particularly happy with how Fili and Kili died. Both their deaths were really kind of upsetting and Kili's was kinda icky too and honestly I wish they had been done a little differently. Seriously though, that may be the only parts of the movie I really didn't like so I'm not going to dwell on it for long.
Actually, I know there are some people who didn't care for how much screen time Alfrid got, but with the intensity of some of the battle scenes, I really appreciated his comic relief keeping me from getting all depressed. One of the moments I especially thought was funny was then the Laketowners were about to tear him apart near the beginning, and Bard stops them and they drop him on the ground, but then when he tries to get up while Bard is talking, Bard just shoves him back down without missing a beat.
Speaking of Bard I loved how Bard was portrayed in the movie and I really loved how much he did to protect his children and how you could really feel the love between them.
Also, I liked Billy Connolly and his lovely scottish accent as Dain who also provided a bit of levity in the midst of the seriousness. I especially loved the little bit of give and take between him and Thranduil when he first showed up and Thranduil actually smirked! and Dain's like "I'll split his pretty head open and see if he's smirking then!"Lol! Then I loved how the dwarves of the Iron Hills formed that wall with their shields and then the elves just jump over them and start slicing up orcs!
And speaking of elves...So many elves! So many really hunky *THUD* and butt-kicking  , awesome elves!
Galadriel and Thranduil and Elrond and Leggy! SQUEEEEE!!!!
Wow, Galadriel doesn't even ask questions, she just comes, explodes orcs and takes care of business! (She's strong too to be able to carry Gandalf like that!) And then she goes nuclear and casts Sauron out while Saruman and Elrond just stand there being blinded by the AWESOMENESS!!! And Elrond got some great action too and I have a new favorite line from Elrond now..."They should have stayed dead! *slice/dice*" Yeeeesssss!!!!
And then there's Thranduil! *swoon* Not a single bad angle in the whole movie, he was Gorgeous/hunky the whole time! I love how when he first showed up, he showed up on Bubba and I loved actually seeing some emotion from him at the various parts and then that part where poor Bubba the War Elk got taken down by arrows and launches Thrandy into the air, but he just tucks and rolls and lands without a single hair out of place, crouching, waiting for the kill, and then pounces like a WILDCAT and takes those orcs DOWN!!! *THUD* And all the other Thranduil moments were awesome too! *THUD*
And Leggy, despite ACTUALLY RUNNING OUT OF ARROWS FOR ONCE he was kicking butt all over the place and hanging onto bats and defying the laws of physics while being gorgeous and hunky like his father, and THANK GOODNESS he got to take down Bolg because I hated Bolg already, but I REALLY HATED his disgusting disgustingness after he killed Kili like that.  (knew Kili's death was coming, just didn't know it was coming like that) I do wonder where Leggy got a new dagger though, because the one he killed Bolg with went down with Bolg. I thought it was really kind of funny when he returned the favor from Thorin saving him in DOS and he saved Thorin by throwing Orcrist, but he really had to think about it for a minute! Like, "Dwarf or pretty sword, dwarf or pretty sword. OH OK FINE! I'll do the right thing and save the dwarf!"
I liked Tauriel too of course, and I'm glad she didn't die, but admittedly she wasn't as epic as the other elves. I'm actually ok with that though because it was at a point overall where she just needed to finish playing out her part and didn't need the "hero" moments that Thranduil and Legolas and others needed. Honestly, I was on Thranduil's side, as far as protecting his people goes, when Tauriel tried to stop him from leaving, drew her bow on him and then said he had no love in him. I did disagree with him on telling her that what she felt for Kili wasn't real though, because that wasn't very nice, but it was also wrong of Tauriel to say what she said and I think his bow-slicing reaction was to be expected. I was very glad though that they had the scene near the end where they both kind of redeem themselves to each other when Tauriel is crying over Kili and Thranduil tells her that the reason it hurts so much when someone you love dies it's because the love was real.That part actually hit me kinda hard cuz I was already crying with Bilbo over Thorin and then Tauriel's and Thranduil's comments kinda hit home because...you know...pretty much everyone's been there, and felt that in some way, or at least will at some point in their lives and I certainly know I've been there and...yeah, it does hurt. Really bad. But as Gandalf said, not all tears are evil.
*cough*Anyway, I also appreciated the moment between Thranduil and Legolas that was also sort of a tie-in to LOTR when Thranduil basically give Legolas blessing to leave and, in his own way, via telling him that his mother loved him, essentially tells him that he loves him too. (was kind of hoping the words "I love you" would actually come out of his mouth, but getting the impression Thranduil isn't the type to express those kinds of emotions very well, so I'll take what I can get.)
I feel I should also address my favorite horn-blowing elf, Feren, because he showed up and actually got several lines! AND he wasn't and elven red-shirt like I thought he'd be! HE SURVIVED!!!
Sooo...overall, I really loved the movie and thought it was very satisfying and even though there's stuff like Thorin's actual funeral that didn't get included, I know why they didn't include them (time) and with 30 extra minuted coming in the EE, I think we have a lot of great extra scenes to look forward too that will just make this great movie even better.
(Good grief that was a long post!)
"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.
The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.
Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Dec 20 2014, 3:35am
Post #164 of 208
(1578 views)
Shortcut
|
Quite a few of my thoughts are now in the long-winded review below, but I'll also be posting all over this thread by tomorrow and maybe we'll even get to start a new one and post some more!
"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.
The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.
Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"
|
|
|
Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 7:33am
Post #165 of 208
(1568 views)
Shortcut
|
I have my default settings to view 100 posts per page, and this is still buried on PAGE 4.
I'd say this thread has been effectively buried, fossilized, petrified- you name it  ....you might want to start up a new one that's not approaching the 500th post down mark if you want people to still be able to see it (yes, even us non-thrall lurkers  )...
|
|
|
Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 10:43am
Post #166 of 208
(1544 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Relax, we're good and still rolling on: posters are posting, and postcount is rising
[In reply to]
|
|
|
We'll get to threadlock as usual. Besides, seems like Eruvandi is going to make a run for threadlock, so we'll be seeing thread 29 soon. we're less than 40 posts away. Easy peasy.
To quickly access the current TA, you just need to change the view to "Activity" instead of "Creation" on the thread headings since there's usually someone posting like within a day.
"Also, if you click on the "creation" bit in the "Age" column (last one) when you view a forum, it changes to "activity", and you get a list of threads which has been recently posted to, instead of when they were started. It's a much easier way to find the current TA thread since someone will probably post in it, and it usually appears on page 1 of the activity view. Certainly beats going back through the board to look for it."
Of course, this works for other threads as well. Just remember: this helpful bit, like every PSA for visitors to TA, is on the OP of every TA thread.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy. " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan)
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them. )
Thranduil Appreciation. Threadcount: XXVIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII | XXIV | XXV | XXVI | XXVII
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
|
|
|
mariel
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 11:08am
Post #168 of 208
(1542 views)
Shortcut
|
I had started to reply to points in your post, but while I was gathering my thoughts I took too long and the system logged me out. I was too tired to start again last night, so need to make another attempt today. I'll compose it on a word doc this time so my efforts aren't wasted
|
|
|
mariel
Lorien
Dec 20 2014, 2:14pm
Post #170 of 208
(1810 views)
Shortcut
|
|
|
|
Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 20 2014, 8:38pm
Post #171 of 208
(1513 views)
Shortcut
|
I view things in flat mode, rather than threaded though- I can't stand threaded (click on a post, read, then have to go back to continue to the next one- blech). Can I still view activity while being able to stay in flat mode?
|
|
|
Dragonrnbw
Rivendell
Dec 20 2014, 8:52pm
Post #172 of 208
(1564 views)
Shortcut
|
Am I the only one having major issues with Thranduil’s back story?
Let me start off saying I have great respect for PJ and Company. I loved the LOTR and walked into the Hobbit with the same love. Yet, I shed no tears..I found the story rushed and memorable scenes I remembered so fondly from the books gone. I am also confused how someone who paid such close attentions to details in the clothing, sets, and props have such crazy holes in the plot/ story???
Now to Thranduil and some problems I have with him
AGE:
– I love Lee Pace. He did an awesome job. Now he needs to stop doing interviews and I need to stop reading what he says about Thranduil.
Lee goes on and on about Thranduil being so old. Then he states Thranduil is 3000 years old. OK 3000 years old is YOUNG in the lives of the Eldar. Many are much older than him! In fact he is not much older than Arwen and her brothers.
- Also add to it Legolas is supposed to be 2931 at the time of LOTR. His son is almost as old as him!
- If he is 3000 during the Hobbit then he is tender 52 years old in War of the last Alliance – too young in my opinion.
- Also in one interview he states Thranduil was alive in the First Age…WHAT?????
I am aware that PJ couldn’t use the HOME, Unfinished Tales, etc…but they could have and should have let that guide them.
<<I personally believe Thranduil was born much earlier in the SA – after his father migrated. I believe his Mother was one of the Silvan elves that his father met after coming to Greenwood. >>
ISOLATONISM:
I can somewhat go with PJ on this but, I don’t really see Thranduil as shutting the world out or fading. As Lee and PJ company state. I see him moving north and making his halls as a war lesson learned well. The battle of the Last Alliance last 8 years. Why so long? Because the elves attacked a well-supplied fortress. It is easier to defend your home than to pack all and go attack. So Thranduil making his halls and moving north is just smart and probably a lesson learned from WOLA. It even states this in the Hobbit book how it was used to protect his people. The Hobbit also suggests he was very friendly with Men and had good dealings. He also went out often and hunted with his people.
I see no evidence of fading or retreating from the world. Just a King who loves his people and their way of life enough to build a strong hold to protect it!
WEALTH:
Lee states Thranduil doesn’t care what others think. From the Hobbit book I get a different impression. I see Thranduil as someone who loves his people but who is also aware of how his people are viewed by the outside. He knows they are not viewed in the same light as the other Elves. Less wise. Which is why he wants to acquire more gems and riches. Money and wealth talk…even in Middle Earth.
This also supports – to me- that he did not fade with his people. I see him as leading his people on the last great journey. I see him on the bow of a boat sailing into the west. Doing his last great act as their King – leading them home.
WIFE:
I believe she is dead. How unsure. I can swallow she was killed by orcs. I am having a HARD time with she was killed in battle …saving her child, by a dragon?. Look at the time line of events. PJ story suggests Legolas was very young when she dies. So young he has no memory. Ok…so that would put him under a year of age at her death. (per Laws and Customs of the Eldar – children develop much faster mentally than mortal – they are walking and talking within the first year.)
Now some say Legolas didn’t have to be directly there for his mother to die for him. Yes…but why would Thranduil even allow that? Come on…it is crazy to have BOTH parents go off to battle with a very young child. Surely one would have enough sense to stay behind. Who would care for the child if both died? They didn’t think of that? I cant believe that. 
Sooo how did the young family wind up in a battle? Also is Legolas is 2931 at LOTR then there is no way we can be an infant at the time of the battle.
Thranduil so heartbroken he can’t talk about it?? Nope can’t buy this either. Not THAT long after her death. Does he not know she will come back? <<Spirits of dead Elves go to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor. After a certain period of time and rest that serves as "cleansing", their spirits are clothed in bodies identical to their old ones.] However, they almost never go back to Middle-earth and remain in Valinor instead . >> So his father and wife will come back and be living in the West. (another reason that strongly points to Thranduil going West – all his family is there)
Why doesn’t he die of a broken heart? Because he has to raise Legolas..ok I can swallow that one.
The gems – I can see him going to the mountain to get them back. Yes . But to actually FIGHT for them NO!
Why did he have a necklace made for his wife after her death? And how can that be the last thing he has of her? She had no jewelry???? No trinkets? No pictures? What was she burned up by a dragon on a cart with all her stuff???? Thranduil NEVER gave her any other jewel?
- Is it the last thing she owned before her death?? Nope she was dead before it was made so it is really not making much sense to me.
If she was killed when Legolas was an infant then the necklace was made WELL after her death. So how can it be her last thing?
This plot/story has more holes than Swiss cheese!!!
LOVE:
Thranduil is so torn up by the loss of his wife he cannot let love near him??? WHAT??? Thranduil’s actions show that LOVE is very much a part of him and it is LOVE that controls his actions.
- He LOVES his people enough not to risk them fighting Smaug and then later BOTFA.
- He LOVES Middle Earth enough to FIGHT for it and put people he loves in harm’s way.
- He must have felt some love for Tauriel to take her in and favor her???
- We know he loves Legolas.
- His desire to protect his people comes from love..
He has LOVE allll over him so how is it he cannot be near it??? What was his motivation to protect? If he didn’t love his people more than the gems he would have attacked the mountain long before.
I just don’t get this entire story line. It makes no sense to me! I sometimes wonder if the reason they don’t tell us more is because it has so many holes in it. Just like the line where he tells him to find Strider. Now we all know he is only 10 years old and does not have that name yet. I am pretty sure he did that to clue in people who haven’t read the books. I wish PJ wouldn’t dumb up the fans…we know it doesn’t fit..let the non-obsessed fans look it up rather than toss something in that isn’t correct!
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 12:13am
Post #173 of 208
(1492 views)
Shortcut
|
Thanks VValar! Although I guess these will have to be my re-entry gift instead of my exit gift since I didn't see them then, they're still great!
I think that first pic should be titled "Crouching Thranduil, Hidden Elf"!
"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.
The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.
Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"
|
|
|
Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Dec 21 2014, 12:19am
Post #174 of 208
(1508 views)
Shortcut
|
I remember this one Vlog scene where he's going down this path just slicing up orcs and IMO it looked different from the one in the movie. Also, what happened to that hawt sword-draw from Vlog 11 near the rock? Was that the same sword-draw as the movie or a different one? Also, what about that HR poster where you can see other elves in the background and he doesn't have any blood on his face yet, but he's clearly in Dale and it's snowing and he's staring at something?
Although the action he got in Bofa was pretty awesome, I really thought he'd get more, and I hope he'll get more in the EE.
"The skies don't seem to be as dark as usual
The stars seem brighter than they've been before
And deep within I feel my soul is stirring
As though my hope has been restored.
The shepherds say they've heard the voice of angels
Confirming rumors spread across the land
That a child protected well from Herod's anger
Is our Father's Son and the Son of Man.
Love is raining down on the world tonight
There's a presence here I can tell
God is in us, God is for us, God is with us, Emanuel."
~Amy Grant "God is With Us"
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I'm back!
[
