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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Movie Tech. Discussion 10 - Filming Middle-earth: Visual Effects
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Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 16 2008, 6:11am

Post #26 of 49 (309 views)
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*lol* [In reply to] Can't Post

Very probably - now that I know what to look for!

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 16 2008, 6:15am

Post #27 of 49 (310 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, I didn't know that. I love that moment.
You learn something new every day here at TORn.

Cool


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 16 2008, 6:15am

Post #28 of 49 (305 views)
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Oh wow [In reply to] Can't Post

Hadn't known that, either. Hm ... would you be surprised to learn that I'd not be brave enough to be a stuntwoman? I doubt I could do *that* ...

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 16 2008, 6:17am

Post #29 of 49 (297 views)
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*snort* Perhaps a toaster off the gift register // [In reply to] Can't Post



mae govannen
Tol Eressea

Mar 16 2008, 6:25am

Post #30 of 49 (308 views)
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I never watched again those ones, [In reply to] Can't Post

and do my best to just erase them from my memory, for it is too late, now that's all I can do.
It does work a little...if I concentrate more on what I feel than on what I now see too clearly!!! Sly

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 16 2008, 6:26am

Post #31 of 49 (304 views)
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Oh yes, I understand what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

Even more so as I feel the same. The documentaries (and some of the books) make it so obvious that these people worked themselves into exhaustion in order to make the best movie possible, that they didn't want a nice, easy, cheap movie, but the best one possible, not matter the cost - in money and in work. To me, the documentaries don't make the impression they say what they said out of duty, but that they truly had fun, put a lot of passion into everything and are truly proud of their work. (As they can be, no doubt!). They never tried to take the easy way if they thought it wouldn't look at least as good as t he difficult one, and I think that is it what we appreciate, no matter if there are parts of the movies we disagree with.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 16 2008, 6:29am

Post #32 of 49 (296 views)
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Well said, both of you // [In reply to] Can't Post



mae govannen
Tol Eressea

Mar 16 2008, 6:52am

Post #33 of 49 (306 views)
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... And I stop looking at this thread too!!! Very dangerous!... [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone is pointing out scenes and moments where this or that is fake, and in many cases I had not noticed it yet!!! So now I flee immediately...! Laugh

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


FarFromHome
Valinor


Mar 16 2008, 8:14am

Post #34 of 49 (309 views)
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Kiran Shah [In reply to] Can't Post

is very recognizable, isn't he? He has his own strong personality and it comes out in his movements.

Another scale-double moment I usually notice is at the Prancing Pony when Strider pushes Kiran down and Elijah gets up!

But I agree with you, it really doesn't harm the movies - in fact, I'm glad I learned about all the tricks they used. Once you get over the first distraction, I find it makes it possible to get even more deeply into the story, somehow!

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 16 2008, 10:57am

Post #35 of 49 (300 views)
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Warning! Warning! Don't Look! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 16 2008, 11:01am

Post #36 of 49 (303 views)
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Now that is just weird. [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way, I just wanted to let you know a house is being built directly across the street and in the front yard is a huge sign that says, WEAVER Construction. Doing a little moonlighting?


weaver
Half-elven

Mar 16 2008, 2:32pm

Post #37 of 49 (305 views)
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Ha! No, but I'll take it as a good omen... [In reply to] Can't Post

We had a building that we owned burn down -- still wrangling with insurance, but I'll take it as a good sign that 'Weaver Construction' means that better days are ahead.

I love it when TORn life intersects with Real Life...I have to work today and your post put me in a better mood to do it...so thanks!

Weaver



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Mar 18 2008, 4:27pm

Post #38 of 49 (302 views)
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Uh oh... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Blue is used because the process removes all of the blue and skin tone doesn’t have much blue in it.



So.... does that mean everything with Elijah done in it had to be green-screened? Otherwise, his eyes would be empty spots! ;)

Nahhh... I know he had blue-screen work. Just that, the man's eyes are VERY blue and must have been a bugger for the colour-mixers/painters to keep straight.


What is fascinating to me is how common the scale issues became as the movies progressed. It's a given that hobbits are smaller than men and not much smaller than dwarves. Fersher! The work was done so well and every detail was considered. What an incredible amount of work just to prepare the props and costumes. The hours and craftspeople who were involved. This is what makes Middle-earth in these films so real...





sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 18 2008, 9:07pm

Post #39 of 49 (306 views)
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WHAT???!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

You know, that is a really good point! According to my limited knowledge of blue screen it would be much worse than Elijah’s eyes being empty spots. They would be holes in his head that you could see right through to the back wall. It would be a neat thing to see, but rather distracting for watching the movie. I don’t know how that sort of thing is handled. I would think that they would have used green screen with Elijah, like you said. Maybe if the shot is not close up enough so that the eyes are small enough (relatively speaking), it doesn’t create a problem. I don’t know. Can someone please explain this to me?

By the way, this is the last installment of “Filming Middle-earth.” Next we start “Post Production.” First comes “Editing” and then comes “Special Effects” for the first two. In “Special Effects” I will go into a lot more detail about blue screen.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 19 2008, 6:32am

Post #40 of 49 (288 views)
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Just had another thought [In reply to] Can't Post

Orlando has brown eyes, but as Legolas was wearing blue contact lenses. Still, there are often shots where he has definitely brown eyes. It was said that he had problems with the lenses - but now I am wondering if that are blue screen scenes and they left the contact lenses out deliberately ...

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Mar 19 2008, 10:45pm

Post #41 of 49 (287 views)
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I don't know. [In reply to] Can't Post

Alcarcalime says that she remembers something being discussed about the blue contact lenses looking brown when the light hit them at the wrong angle. Maybe that isn’t what was happening. I would think that they would adjust the special effects to accommodate the eye color rather than adjust the eye color to accommodate the special effects though. But then, I am totally confused about this blue screen and eye color thing.

Speaking of contact lenses, I was watching the Special Edition extras and they were showing them putting Lurtz’s contact lenses in. I can’t stand for anything to come anywhere near my eyes. I even have trouble putting eye drops in. They just grabbed his eyelid and pulled it out, jammed this huge contact lens in his eye, and wiggled it around! Boy, did I ever freak out! I guess that I would never make it as an actor.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 20 2008, 6:40am

Post #42 of 49 (283 views)
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Light angle? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hm, yes, that would explain a lot. And it is true, some colours change depending on the light angle. Though I'd expected them to change the colour with the computer. Anyway, it's not so important - I am not sure I'd be aware of it at all if not for all the fanfiction who stresses Legolas' blue eyes Wink

These contact lenses ... *shudders* This picture makes my eyes watering every time I see it! I can't even watch some of my relatives who wear contact lenses put them in in a much gentler way without tearing up. And when I had the conjunctivitis a few weeks ago, it was bad enough to get the eye drops in without squeezing my eyes shut ... before the drops hit, of course. So you see, you're not alone in this!

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Loresilme
Valinor


Mar 27 2008, 2:53pm

Post #43 of 49 (262 views)
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Preferred the perspective technique over using the doubles [In reply to] Can't Post

"As far back as the early 1900s, French filmmaker, George Méliès, developed dozens of camera tricks to delight audiences so unaccustomed to motion pictures that they'd cover their heads when it rained on screen.
__________________________

This reminds me of how people react currently to 3D and some of those virtual reality games.

___________________________
Three special-effects techniques he pioneered formed the basis for most of the special effects of the next seven decades: mechanical models, painted backgrounds and multiple film exposures." (2.)
__________________________

Wow … at work we lucky if some process or procedure we put in place is workable for a year. His techniques have been used for almost a century!


Overall I preferred seeing the Hobbits look smaller, over the use of the doubles. But even so most of the 'problems' I have with some of the effects I honestly did not start seeing until I'd watched the films repeatedly. So I think overall they did a phenomenal job, on the scale differences and in using blue screen. In addition to the scenes other people noted (at the Council of Elrond and the Grey Havens), for instance, there is also a strange moment in the cave troll battle in Moria, where the cave troll sneaks up on Frodo, and Pippin and Merry are about two feet away and they are looking right past the troll.

The thing about the Grey Havens though, is I am a bit surprised, given the importance of that scene, why they used the doubles when Frodo and Bilbo were boarding the ship. I'm not sure but I think I may have actually noticed that pretty early on, because the hair, body shape and I agree, the walk was so different. I wonder why they didn't use the special perspective filming technique on that scene?


Loresilme
Valinor


Mar 27 2008, 2:57pm

Post #44 of 49 (259 views)
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Dramatic concentration and contact lenses [In reply to] Can't Post

I once had a friend who was a professional singer, and she said she couldn't perform with her contact lenses in. She either had to wear glasses or just deal with the blur. She just said they bothered her and she couldn't concentrate.

I wonder how the actors manage.


(This post was edited by Loresilme on Mar 27 2008, 2:58pm)


Alcarcalime
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2008, 4:31pm

Post #45 of 49 (260 views)
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I thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

that the double for Bilbo at the Grey Havens was a child because of the way he moved. I don't think anyone ever talked about why they did things the way they did in the Grey Havens scene.

I *see* the doubles and wrong eye lines, but because I am so impressed with the job they did overall, I just note it and go on enjoying these films.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 27 2008, 4:40pm

Post #46 of 49 (260 views)
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That's interesting! [In reply to] Can't Post

And your friend is obviously used to wearing them when not performing. When she has problems concentrating because of them, then it has to be even more of a problem for people who usually don't wear contact lenses ...

Only a few weeks ago, I had a conjunctivitis, and I have to admit it made me realise how touch sensitive the eye is (I've still a bit of a problem with wind). I can't imagine having to put something into my eyes at all - the eye drops were bad enough. But something solid? And then concentrating? And even worse, fighting, in the case of the stuntmen? This discussion makes me admire them even more!

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 28 2008, 7:54am

Post #47 of 49 (255 views)
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I think I misread your post! [In reply to] Can't Post

The part about 'wind' had me going off on a completely different track.Laugh

I remember having conjunctivitis years ago and it was horrible.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Mar 28 2008, 8:15am

Post #48 of 49 (275 views)
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It's funny [In reply to] Can't Post

how our own experiences can trigger associations in a complete different direction than expected, isn't it? Wink

It's a nasty thing, yes. No reading, no internet at first ... *grumble* And even now, more than four weeks after I'm officially healed, I sometimes feel it - too bright light, a bit of wind, too concentrated looking at some point makes me tearing up, and it feels rather dry sometimes. Quite irritating, I have to admit. And to imagine to have to put up with these monstrous contact lenses for Orcs, when a soft breeze is enough to irritate the eye ... *shudders*

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Starling
Half-elven


Mar 28 2008, 9:08am

Post #49 of 49 (266 views)
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I remember [In reply to] Can't Post

I had to wear sunglasses for ages after the conjunctivitis had gone, as my eyes were still so sensitive to light.
Couldn't stand to wear those orcsey contacts either!

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