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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The white gems of Lasgalen??
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Eruthurin
Rivendell


Dec 19 2014, 1:08pm

Post #1 of 26 (8212 views)
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The white gems of Lasgalen?? Can't Post

ok, can someone explain me that sub-story mentiones in AUJ and BOTFA?.... they jsut show them at the extended first one and is mantioned and showed in the third one but.... where is the background story of it?.....

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 19 2014, 1:11pm

Post #2 of 26 (7693 views)
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Gems [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it was the gems belonging to Thranduil´s dead wife.


moreorless
Gondor

Dec 19 2014, 1:37pm

Post #3 of 26 (7619 views)
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Perhaps in the EE? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think it was the gems belonging to Thranduil´s dead wife.


I got that impression as well but I was a bit supprized it wasn't made more obviously as I think it would have been an effective plot point reinforcing elements of the stories of all of the Mirkwood elf characters.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 19 2014, 1:44pm

Post #4 of 26 (7806 views)
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It's explained in the Visual Companion [In reply to] Can't Post

Thranduil designed the necklace for his wife and "in his mind it was the last thing he owned that reminded him of his dead wife".



Eruthurin
Rivendell


Dec 19 2014, 1:50pm

Post #5 of 26 (7604 views)
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Ooohh!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I will look for that book too then! ... thanks!

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 19 2014, 1:54pm

Post #6 of 26 (7620 views)
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Another victim of PJ's slicing and dicing... [In reply to] Can't Post

That would have added a lot more resonance to the seemingly abrupt story point about his wife.

The EE will be so much better.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Dec 19 2014, 2:08pm

Post #7 of 26 (7583 views)
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this EE seems so tasty [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



LoremIpsum
Lorien


Dec 19 2014, 2:18pm

Post #8 of 26 (7576 views)
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I thought it was obvious in the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't read any spoilers about Thranduil but in BOFA:

-it was female jewellery that he wanted
-he never speaks of his wife because her loss pains him so much
-we know from Legolas she went to Gundabad and never returned
-we know Thranduil has a massive scar from DOS that he got facing fire serpents from the north
-he tells Tauriel - 'you know what real love is? would you die for it" or something to that effects, I took it from it that Thranduil tried by failed to defend his wife

However that was just my brain connecting the dots my own way when watching, people could have different interpretations.


(This post was edited by LoremIpsum on Dec 19 2014, 2:19pm)


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Dec 19 2014, 2:25pm

Post #9 of 26 (7541 views)
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Right now, and after only one viewing of this great film,I am starving for this Extended Edition [In reply to] Can't Post

I really do.

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Dec 19 2014, 2:33pm

Post #10 of 26 (7510 views)
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hehe he could want female jewels for himselfXD [In reply to] Can't Post

 

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true

Survivor to the battle for the fifth trailer

Hobbit Cinema Marathon Hero



Riven Delve
Tol Eressea


Dec 19 2014, 2:39pm

Post #11 of 26 (7563 views)
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Check out Silverlode's thoughts on the gems [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Thorin refers to the necklace that Thranduil wants as being "the stones of Lasgalen". Eryn Galen (Greenwood) was the original name for Mirkwood before the Necromancer poisoned it. Eryn Lasgalen (Wood of Greenleaves) is the name that Thranduil and Celeborn later give to Mirkwood after Sauron is destroyed. In addition to being a little nod to wider mythology, it also indicates that Thorin knows the necklace belongs to Thranduil by right - or he likely would not call it by that name.

(http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_collapsed;)



and



Quote
Thinking more about the "stones of Lasgalen", it occurs to me that since Lasgalen means "greenleaves", and Legolas is referred to as Legolas Greenleaf, the writers may have decided that Lasgalen is essentially the name of Thranduil's royal house, in other words his family name - making the necklace possibly part of the "crown jewels", for lack of a better term.

If that was the line of thinking, no wonder Thranduil wants them back enough to go to war for them. It's not only sentimental value (assuming they were for/worn by Legolas' mother) - it's an insult to have one's royal emblems withheld from him by dwarves and essentially held for ransom.

(http://newboards.theonering.net/...sb=post_time;so=DESC;)



“Tollers,” Lewis said to Tolkien, “there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves.”



Eruthurin
Rivendell


Dec 19 2014, 4:19pm

Post #12 of 26 (7455 views)
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After watching AUJ EE [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought Thranduil order the jewels to be made by the elves and for some reason unknown (not explained) Thror didn't give them back... not sure about being owned by him or his wife beforehand.... any thoughts?...

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::


BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 19 2014, 4:34pm

Post #13 of 26 (7602 views)
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According to the Visual Companion [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
[---] Thranduil designed a beautiful necklace for his wife. He gave into Thrór's own hands the materials with which to make it, since the elves do not work metal themselves: the finest raw gold, silver and some superb jewels -- famed far and wide as White Gems of Lasgalen [---]. But there was a dispute over the payment for the work carried out and King Thrór refused to part with the necklace. Some say the necklace was so beautiful that he could not bear to let it go and so devised the complaint; others take the dwarven king's side and claim that the elven king short-changed him.




Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Dec 19 2014, 5:16pm

Post #14 of 26 (7440 views)
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Thranduil/Thingol [In reply to] Can't Post

Phillippa Boyens explains the backstory to Thranduil in the Empire Pod cast. His beautifully nuanced enigmatic performance is driven by his grief at the loss of his wife in the war with Angmar.

The echo of the Nauglamir/ Thingol in the Lasgalen/Thranduil story remind us in Tolkien worlds how precious gems are a recurring motif for focusing greed avarice and the uneasy relationship between the Eldar and the children of Aule.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Dec 19 2014, 5:20pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Dec 19 2014, 5:22pm

Post #15 of 26 (7397 views)
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I'm adding this [In reply to] Can't Post

to the Geeky Observation List! Thanks :) //



6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observation List - May 15, 2014



sample

"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!



TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 19 2014, 5:38pm

Post #16 of 26 (7392 views)
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I enjoyed that very much [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a transcript in this post here in case anyone's interested.



Eruthurin
Rivendell


Dec 19 2014, 6:33pm

Post #17 of 26 (7363 views)
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Elves do not work metal themselves?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Uh... not sure about this since they made fine swords and other weapons, Orcrist included, not to mention Anduril, Sting and many many more... or may be just for jewlery? That's a bad imprecision....

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::


BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 19 2014, 7:19pm

Post #18 of 26 (7346 views)
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The Wood-elves of Mirkwood didn't [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
His [the Elven-king's] people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth.
- Flies and Spiders, TH




kiwifan
Rohan

Dec 19 2014, 11:24pm

Post #19 of 26 (7263 views)
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That's what it says but how do we know it is true? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have that book and I used up a whole block of little adhesive flags marking all the spots where Jude Fisher gets things wrong (or the writing is sloppy, and so on). I have all the Visual Companions for TH and LotR and was often surprised at the many errors contained in them. Sorry, but I do find that annoying. Perhaps she gathers her source material way ahead of the actual finishing of the respective film by PJ and thus misses changes effected in editing, or scenes redone and changed in pickups.

The person I would like to ask about these things is Philippa Boyens but unless she comes to HobbitCon, no chance of that.

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


kiwifan
Rohan

Dec 19 2014, 11:31pm

Post #20 of 26 (7252 views)
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Perhaps it's just the Sylvan Elves who don't work metal and/or gems [In reply to] Can't Post

After all, Feanor (who created the Silmarils) was an Elf (one of the princes of the Noldor), and so was Celebrimbor, who if I recall correctly, designed and/or fashioned the three rings of power that the Elves have (Nenya, Narya and Vilya)

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Bladerunner
Gondor


Dec 20 2014, 12:48am

Post #21 of 26 (7251 views)
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This statement has puzzled me on other occasions... [In reply to] Can't Post

...mainly because the elvensmiths could work metal quite well, - such as the rings of power, and the great swords Orcrist and Glamdring, among other things.


In Reply To

Quote
[---] ...He gave into Thrór's own hands the materials with which to make it, since the elves do not work metal themselves:...





Saneliur
Bree

Dec 20 2014, 6:43am

Post #22 of 26 (7215 views)
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Buahahahaha XD [In reply to] Can't Post

 


BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 20 2014, 10:45am

Post #23 of 26 (7187 views)
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'The elves' here stand solely for the Wood-elves of Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

Who, as I already stated above, didn't.


Quote
His [the Elven-king's] people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth.
- Flies and Spiders, TH




BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 20 2014, 10:47am

Post #24 of 26 (7180 views)
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See my reply to Eruthurin. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



BlackFox
Half-elven


Dec 20 2014, 2:43pm

Post #25 of 26 (7186 views)
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Boyens did mention it in the Empire podcast [In reply to] Can't Post

https://soundcloud.com/...ppa-boyens-interview (jump to 27:10)


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