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CathrineB
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 2:23am
Post #1 of 17
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Fili & Kili Appreciation Thread # 2 (with Spoilers)
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Since the first thread was more or less swallowed up within moments and is well past page 12 soon it was suggested to make a new one! So here it is! A little place to appericiate the two young Fili and Kili. Speaking of which, for a children's book 'the Hobbit' has an incredibly tragic end http://newboards.theonering.net/..._time;so=DESC;mh=25;
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 19 2014, 2:55am
Post #2 of 17
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http://fav.me/d5po6v9 I seem to be having image posting issues, but I think this pic is lovely, even if it's also sad....
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GloryBox
Bree
Dec 19 2014, 5:28am
Post #3 of 17
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I think Fili's last moments are incredibly heroic. I'm sure that he would rather have died fighting to the very last and with a weapon in his hand. But instead, he's captured and then dragged out so that Thorin, Kili, and Dwalin can helplessly witness his execution. With his last words, he tries to get them to save themselves from the trap they're in. He's not concerned for himself. He manages to say "Go!" and then "Run!" before Azog kills him. I loved the last look that he and Thorin exchanged; I thought it was a king-to-king acknowledgement of Fili's bravery as Thorin's heir as well as the love that Thorin felt for his nephew.
...one morning long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green... The Hobbit
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 5:56am
Post #4 of 17
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People may complain that it's different than the book...
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... but I think the way Fili and Kili die in the movie was perfect because it demonstrates the ignominity that often comes with death, but also showcases their heroism. Fili faces an ignominious death with honor and, as pointed out, uses his last moments of life to try and persuade the ones he loves to save themselves, and Kili charges headlong into danger to avenge his brother.
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marillaraina
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 7:04am
Post #5 of 17
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... but I think the way Fili and Kili die in the movie was perfect because it demonstrates the ignominity that often comes with death, but also showcases their heroism. Fili faces an ignominious death with honor and, as pointed out, uses his last moments of life to try and persuade the ones he loves to save themselves, and Kili charges headlong into danger to avenge his brother. Yeah I actually they both got fitting deaths. When you think about it, if they died protecting Thorin, it probably would have happened even more quickly and it's doubtful the reactions would have been any stronger. Instead they each got an individual death, acknowledged as having meaning as individuals as well as having connections with others whom their deaths would affect.
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Dec 19 2014, 7:52am
Post #6 of 17
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Was anyone else reminded of the taunting death which started another famous battle....
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in Tolkien's Legendarium? Those who've read the Silmarillion will remember how, as the forces faced off bfore the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, Morgoth's forces brought out the Elf Gelmir who had been captured during a previous battle, paraded him in front of the Noldor host and mutilated him (cutting off his hands and feet) before killing him. His enraged brother, Gwindor was so enflamed by this act that he led a charge prematurely and launched the full-scale hostilities too soon. Obviously Fili wasn't mutilated (too much for a PG-13!!!) but I'm sure the inspiration came from this incident...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened." ¯ Victoria Monfort
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DigificWriter
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 7:57am
Post #7 of 17
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Another reason why their filmic deaths work...
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... is that, particularly in the case of Kili's, Peter uses them to set up and speak to some broader thematic concepts that run throughout his entire interpretation of Tolkien's works. By having Kili die the way he does, Peter is also able to pay off the romance with Tauriel, which in itself speaks to and is setup for the friendship that later develops between Legolas and Gimli.
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CathrineB
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 9:26am
Post #8 of 17
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I've never been able to read Silmarillion (I don't know, had no trouble with LotR, Hobbit and Hurin), but either way that reminded me a lot of Fili's death yeah. I just hate that it was done so quickly. At least give us a little fight or something before Kili would run off to find Azog. Regarding keeping the rating though. I think maybe it's possible that his death was more brutal to begin with (and considering it's hard to watch as it is now that's not a nice thought.) Didn't it say in a book somewhere (or rumours had it) that Fili would be decapitated? And it looks like he has blood on his face by the time Azog has him so there might have been a fight. Alright sad thoughts.. Have some happy.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 1:20pm
Post #9 of 17
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It's in the BO5A Art and Design book it says Azog beheads Fili, but as mentioned before a beheading is a bit much for a PG-13 movie. Though Thror is beheaded in AUJ and in the ROTK the orcs catapult the heads of Faramir's men over the walls of Gondor. Of course we, the audience, never see the actual beheadings, just the end result. So, it makes me wonder if they actually wrote and/or filmed Fili's death this way and later went back and changed it. If so, why? Since we've seen this type of thing before in these films. By the way, in no means did I or do I want see Fili decapitated. I cried when I first read it. I'm just simply curious.
(This post was edited by lionoferebor on Dec 19 2014, 1:23pm)
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Dec 19 2014, 1:41pm
Post #10 of 17
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I recall reading in some news item (possibly on the TORN homepage) that the first time BotFA was submitted for a US rating, they indicated they would rate it R (no one under 17 allowed without parent or guardian). That would be box office poison, and would definitely be a reason to tone down scenes like that one.
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CathrineB
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 10:04pm
Post #12 of 17
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Maybe they decided against it because beheading Thror is one thing. This is a character we haven't had time to actually grown particularly fond of. Same with the men of Gondor. And sure Fili hasn't been a main character either, but we have gotten more of him than Thror. We have gotten reasons to care for him. Beheading such a young character in a movie based on a children's story might be too brutal? I don't know. I think the beheading of Thror alone was a bit sickening I don't even know what I would have done if it had happened to Fili And they don't actually show the stabbing of either Fili or Kili so they def. had to take a step back on quite a few things if beheading was their original plan.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 10:30pm
Post #13 of 17
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our fondness of Fili had something to do with that decision. To imagine what these films could've been like if it weren't for the PG-13 rating. Side note, considering who he is and his status, Fili should've been a main character.
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 10:41pm
Post #14 of 17
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Thanks for this parallel with the Silmarillion
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The writers wanted to recreate a horrible death for Fili, because they already knew that Kili would be involved in closing Tauriel's story line. And of course they wanted to create individual moments for their deaths, not casual slaying in battle. I was horrified and shocked when I read of Fili's beheading, though I understand that it could have been thought out to parallel Thror's death, to shock Thorin even more. But Fili did not deserve a mutilation which would have irreparably damaged an eventual funeral scene (even if we got no funeral, they actually shot it, and hopefully we'll get it in the EE). Parading a captive before the enemy and executing him is unbearably cruel but if Tolkien wrote such a thing I can come to terms with it. What I cannot come to terms with is the apparent absence of caring and mourning for Fili. Almost unforgivable, since we have plenty of elves and Alfrid.
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CathrineB
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 11:53pm
Post #15 of 17
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The scene leading up to it and the death scene and beheading really hadn't been necessary to make it more dramatic. The way Fili tries to find a way out when the fires in the tunnels starts to showing is intense on it's own. Anyone having read the book knows what this leads to. And the sounds building up to Azog stepping out with Fili... Oh wow I had my heart in my throat all over again. It's a very effective scene. It pulls out a strong reaction of out people.
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MihailOMalley
The Shire
Dec 21 2014, 5:39am
Post #16 of 17
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I just wanted to say how much I appreciate Aidan Turner's skill in bringing Kili to life. Every time I see the post-healing scene I think about how absolutely terrible it could have been in a lesser actor's hands (Orlando Bloom, for example. I like him and Legolas, but he's just not a great actor and I often cringe during his lines readings). He delivered those lines perfectly and really saved a scene that could have given Tauriel/Kili haters more ammunition. There's evidence their storyline was expanded *because* of AT (and their chemistry), but if that's not the case I cringe to think how awful the whole plotline could have been with a different, less charming and skillful actor. TL;DR: I honestly think AT was one of the better actors in the film and am glad he was cast. I think I might have loathed Kili's storyline otherwise.
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marillaraina
Rohan
Dec 21 2014, 6:52am
Post #17 of 17
(343 views)
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I just wanted to say how much I appreciate Aidan Turner's skill in bringing Kili to life. Every time I see the post-healing scene I think about how absolutely terrible it could have been in a lesser actor's hands (Orlando Bloom, for example. I like him and Legolas, but he's just not a great actor and I often cringe during his lines readings). He delivered those lines perfectly and really saved a scene that could have given Tauriel/Kili haters more ammunition. There's evidence their storyline was expanded *because* of AT (and their chemistry), but if that's not the case I cringe to think how awful the whole plotline could have been with a different, less charming and skillful actor. TL;DR: I honestly think AT was one of the better actors in the film and am glad he was cast. I think I might have loathed Kili's storyline otherwise. Turner's a really good actor. He's been good in everything I've seen him in, from a vampire attempting to go straight"(Mitchell could be very nice and Mitchell could be scary as hell) to a self-centered poet(Rossetti had to be a rat while still being charming and likable enough to make you believe his friends would keep him around) and Kili was sweet, lively, inexperienced, heroic without being "try hard" about it, it came from the heart, and having unexpected depths. He really sold Kili's feelings for Tauriel esp in that scene at the lake front.
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