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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Dec 18 2014, 8:53pm
Post #1 of 22
(967 views)
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The Line of Durin
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I just got back from seeing the movie for a second time, and a thought occurred to me that I haven't seen mentioned here. I'm sure someone has brought it up somewhere, but I thought it was important enough for its own thread. Although I feel sort of guilty for contributing to the endless pushing of other threads to the second (and third) page.
I don't know if they did this on purpose, but there's an interesting parallel to how Thorin's kin die. Thorin watches as Azog kills Thror right in front of him, and the same thing happens with Fili. And Thorin dies believing that Thrain and Kili still live, unless of course Gandalf tells Thorin about what happened in Dol Guldur in the extended edition. At first I was a bit upset that Thorin died not even knowing what happened to Kili, but this little connection makes it interesting. And at the same time it just adds to the tragedy of it all.
I still would have preferred that they stuck closer to what was described in the book, but I think all three deaths were executed (bad choice of words maybe...) rather well, especially Fili's. I'm glad they didn't have everyone scream "NOOO!" The scene had such a quiet grimness to it that works really well.
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thomasofrohan
Lorien
Dec 18 2014, 9:02pm
Post #2 of 22
(655 views)
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What unexpectedly got me during Fili's scene
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was Thorin's little nod, almost like he was trying to say "be brave".
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DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell
Dec 18 2014, 9:15pm
Post #3 of 22
(579 views)
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like he was trying to say "be brave" Twist the knife a little more will you? I'm still upset that Fili just gets murdered in cold blood. 
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kiwifan
Rohan
Dec 18 2014, 9:39pm
Post #4 of 22
(524 views)
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and I'll never, ever forgive PJ et al for this. All through this last film, even more so than in DoS, it's been Kili who's been getting the lines, the attention and affection of Thorin, and even the girl, while Fili is left on the sidelines and just quickly disposed of in the most heartless and shocking fashion. 
Is there a 'Fili appreciation thread' somewhere?
'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'
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thomasofrohan
Lorien
Dec 18 2014, 9:44pm
Post #6 of 22
(522 views)
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was incredibly brave, just in an unexpected way. He doesn't beg the other dwarves to save him, or plead with Azog for his life. He simply wants them to get away. He also arguably tries to save Kili's life by having him scout the lower halls after they hear a noise, going directly to the (perceived) danger himself.
(This post was edited by thomasofrohan on Dec 18 2014, 9:45pm)
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DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell
Dec 18 2014, 9:46pm
Post #7 of 22
(490 views)
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More lines needed. And what was the deal with everyone just leaving him there after he gets killed?
And I haven't seen a specific thread, we should start one!
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Dec 18 2014, 9:49pm
Post #8 of 22
(482 views)
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... "just leaving him there"? The battle was still raging at that point!
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DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell
Dec 18 2014, 9:50pm
Post #9 of 22
(470 views)
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At the end, the dwarves are all crying over Thorin, and Tauriel is crying over Kili, but you just never see Fili again, like they forgot about him.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Dec 18 2014, 9:54pm
Post #10 of 22
(449 views)
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Yes, that was unfortunate. But I'm quite confident the EE will fix this. Fingers crossed!
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Saneliur
Bree
Dec 18 2014, 10:07pm
Post #13 of 22
(454 views)
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I like how they handled Fili's death. It was a quiet grief, and like you said, nobody screamed no. Well except for me that is  
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CathrineB
Rohan
Dec 18 2014, 10:14pm
Post #14 of 22
(442 views)
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Fili was sort of mourned before he died. Everyone knew that Fili wasn't going to survive the moment they saw Azog having him. The looks of Bilbo's face alone, Dwalin looking away and Thorin's disbelief is heartbreaking as it is. Though yeah I wish they had at least mentioned him again after it.
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elentari3018
Rohan
Dec 18 2014, 11:24pm
Post #15 of 22
(394 views)
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We actually get the most reaction from Fili's death because everyone there experienced seeing it. Unlike Kili's death in which we don't even have Thorin knowing he dies. I think that had the most attention and what I personally needed is emotional reaction to these horrid events by the characters there. I wish that after the battle all the dwarves put them side by side and see a huge mourning scene but i guess PJ put that in the EE?
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Dec 18 2014, 11:33pm
Post #16 of 22
(381 views)
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The look on Thorin's face when he first saw Azog had Fili was heartbreaking. I think in that moment Thorin knew what the end result would be.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Dec 18 2014, 11:44pm
Post #17 of 22
(393 views)
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there will be more in the EE...
I mean, we don't even get to see any of Thorin's funeral..........
"Judge me by my size, would you?" Max the Hobbit Husky.
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Azaghâl
Lorien
Dec 19 2014, 12:01am
Post #18 of 22
(381 views)
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One thing that really upset me big time, was there was no line from Bilbo saying farewell to Thorin, Fili and Kili as he leaves and say goodbye to the rest of the company.
Poor Fili. The one dwarf I wanted to hear and see more of ever since his neglect in AUJ. How sad I was at the end of DOS when I knew these movies were really all about PJ's love of elves, and all the dwarfs except for Thorin were secondary characters. And here in the final movie, the last chance to give Fili some needed depth, we get fewever lines than he had in any of the other movies, less importance and screen time. Only to have him executed and forgotten.. PJ you screwed this one up.
Rant over!
*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*
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kiwifan
Rohan
Dec 19 2014, 12:02am
Post #19 of 22
(364 views)
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But I still wish he had said something
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In the previous films, whenever Kili was in danger, Thorin shouts 'Kili' or says his name quietly but here he doesn't react except with a horrified look. He should have said 'Fili', calmly if need be so as not to give Azog the triumph of hearing him. I just needed him to do that to know that although he (and the filmmakers) always preferred Fili, he still cared about hi, and he didn't. And I would have liked to see Dwalin go to Fili's body and close his eyes for him after he (Dwalin) is done fighting, after all, they were related. The way it is now I find most unsatisfactory and very much hope there'll be more in the EE.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 19 2014, 12:13am
Post #21 of 22
(356 views)
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But I must say I do find all this treating characters as if they were real people to be very odd.
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DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell
Dec 19 2014, 5:59am
Post #22 of 22
(281 views)
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One thing that really upset me big time, was there was no line from Bilbo saying farewell to Thorin, Fili and Kili as he leaves and say goodbye to the rest of the company.
I really missed that part too.
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