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Peterthorn of Rohan
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 1:03pm
Post #1 of 27
(901 views)
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Are there any people of color in BOFA?
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It would be nice to show the diversity of the Lake Town folk.
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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 1:07pm
Post #2 of 27
(532 views)
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Yes, one Asian looking woman in Dale
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There may be more though, but the absolute majority of the survivors seem to be white.
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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dubulous
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 1:36pm
Post #3 of 27
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There was the Asian looking woman who gets a close up, but there were others in the background too. Laketown seems to have a pretty diverse population.
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haarp
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 1:40pm
Post #4 of 27
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I think measuring diversity by skin colour is a bit racist, perhaps try and forget about skin colour
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Crunchable Birdses
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 1:43pm
Post #5 of 27
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I didn't know people still use the phrase "people of colour", other than elderly aunts who blush when talking to a black person.
* crunch *
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priell3
Lorien
Dec 17 2014, 1:49pm
Post #6 of 27
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MikeP
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adt100
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 2:53pm
Post #7 of 27
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I assume it a perfectly acceptable term for 'non white' people?
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Me85
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 3:36pm
Post #8 of 27
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Honestly, as an asian woman (i'm chinese) i thought it was just weird that an asian person just suddenly popped up in the last Middle earth movie cause i never envisioned any asian people or any other ethnic people (that exist here on earth) on Middle earth.
To me different races that we have on earth did not exist in middle earth. The different races were just dwarves, elves, hobbits etc... and men. I though color didn't exist among men in middle earth so i personally did not need to see it.
I hope i haven't offended anyone cause i definitely like to see more in hollywood just not ME.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 17 2014, 3:43pm
Post #9 of 27
(375 views)
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There appear to be different races in the books
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Would there be any particular reason for them not to be in the cinematic ME?
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 4:07pm
Post #10 of 27
(368 views)
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The term 'coloured person' is out of favour in English.
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It was a common term in the 1970s, but has been replaced by various other terms since then. 'Person of colour' is the same term, just rather clumsily reversed. It was considered racist, probably because it implies that everyone who doesn't have pale skin is somehow part of one identifiable group.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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MechaGodzilla
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 4:19pm
Post #11 of 27
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There are definitely other ethnic groups in Middle-earth
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Think back to the Easterlings and Haradrim for example. It's just that the story takes place in "Europe" which is why the majority of human (and humanlike) characters are white.
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Me85
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 4:43pm
Post #12 of 27
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But those races were made up by tolkien. They don't actually exist in real life. That's why i said i never envisioned races in ME that actually exist here on earth. But seriously it's not a big deal just a bit weird that after so many movies one asian suddenly pops up for half a second.
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Osskil
Bree
Dec 17 2014, 4:56pm
Post #13 of 27
(336 views)
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At least in academic studies--Black Studies, Gender Studies, Women's Studies, especially--people of color or POCs is a standard term these days.
Struck me as strange the first time I heard it used, too.
Just my two cents. :)
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 5:06pm
Post #14 of 27
(311 views)
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One problem with having travellers from distant lands - or their descendents - present, is that if we accept the existence of the far south or the far east, as living cultures in the story, then we start wondering how Sauron is going to 'cover the world in darkness'. Or is he just a regional threat? Or does he have another load of orcs that he's sent off in other directions? How will they get across the Pacific? And if so, what happened to them? Did the good guys win, or is the rest of the world overrun by orcs now? That's the thing about myths - too much knowledge breaks them, and I think it was wise of Tolkien not to engage with the wider world too much in these stories.
Watched Red Cliff recently - a great film. Don't remember seeing anyone in it who didn't look (to my British eyes, anyway) ethnically Chinese. Which makes perfect sense for the story and the era in which it is set.
The reason that we have different and distinct ethnic groups is because human populations were sufficiently isolated from each other for sufficiently long to create distinct differences, according to mainly geographical/territorial factors. Our modern world is very different – if we all manage to survive a few hundred more years without disaster, and we keep moving about and mixing, we will probably become one global ethnicity. Ironically, ethnic diversity may become a thing of the past. That doesn't feel like a problem - my own kids (if I have any) will be mixed - but I don't feel the need to re-engineer depictions of the past to suit some predetermined demographic ideal.
Given that Middle Earth is a mythologised Europe, somewhere in pre-history, and The Hobbit is set in the northern part, nearly everyone would be pale-skinned. It's the weather, you know - cloudy with intermittent rain.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 17 2014, 5:18pm
Post #15 of 27
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I think they would still need real actors to play them.
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All of the races in ME were made up by Tolkien - those with white skin included. Is it odd to see a white chap playing a descendent of Numenor?
(This post was edited by Spriggan on Dec 17 2014, 5:20pm)
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adt100
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 7:02pm
Post #16 of 27
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To be fair, as long as clearly offensive term like the 'n' word are used then I don't think it such be an issue the exact terminology used. It seems that different terminology is used and acceptabes by different ages, countries and so forth. So long as no offence is intended (which it clearly isn't) then such semantic differences can be forgiven. It seems every generation there is a new term for races, sexual orientation etc, it can be hard keeping on top of what's is the 'correct term'. And who is to day what is correct? It generally seems to be the white middle class left wingers that are offended on other people's behalf. What is the alternative expression to be used? Are there any black, Hispanic, Asian... etc people's represented in Laketown? 'White' people are not white, yet are all clumped together in that grouping and there is no offence to it. Why does it differ so much for other races?
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 8:21pm
Post #17 of 27
(230 views)
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'White' is not acceptable either, as far as I'm concerned.
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The easy solution is to say 'Are there any non-European ethnicities in Laketown?'. The advantage of this system is that you can use it for any ethnic group - does the latest Bollywood blockbuster have any non-Indian ethnicities in it? Are there any ethnic Australians in the Aussie cricket team? etc. etc.
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Scourge of the Stoors
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 8:38pm
Post #18 of 27
(223 views)
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While we should never shoehorn races into places where it would be unrealistic, just to please audiences and make money (The Last Samurai, anyone?), it is nice to see ethnic diversity where it can logically be placed, even if it doesn't have to.
The Asian woman in particular is important. In all three of these films, the East has been shown as a harbinger of dangerous things that maim and destroy. By showing this caring, vulnerable person who must have ancestry in these unknown lands, the film is reminding us that not all that dwells in the East is evil.
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Me85
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 8:52pm
Post #19 of 27
(215 views)
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nowadays you have to be very PC....
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You have to be careful cause people easily get offended.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 17 2014, 8:57pm
Post #20 of 27
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It's never seemed too onerous to me.
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To vaguely take note of changing language use every decade or two, and to respond accordingly. That's not to say I don't agree with opening thought of your post but the balance ought to be tolerance for honest errors rather than justification that it's just impossible to keep up.
The idea that such language is therefore contextual answers your last point - the contexts are very different.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 17 2014, 9:05pm
Post #21 of 27
(208 views)
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In my experience, it's very easy to get through life without offending people on such matters.
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Me85
Rivendell
Dec 17 2014, 9:11pm
Post #22 of 27
(199 views)
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I dont think i have personally ever offended anyone. At least i hope not. But i have seen plenty of other people who have offended others while they certainly did not mean to.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Dec 17 2014, 9:18pm
Post #23 of 27
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As it may be inappropriate but the idea that the only way to avoid such things is by labouring under the burden of "having to be very PC" is at substantial odds with my experience.
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Dec 17 2014, 9:26pm
Post #24 of 27
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The word "academic" used in the very broadest sense, there.
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And even in those particular fields, with their history of mangling both language and meaning beyond recognition, I don't think the term is used in English. I think it's only used in the US English variant. In English I think it would be "black and minority ethnic" - or BME, which is, admittedly, just as bad.
At least in academic studies--Black Studies, Gender Studies, Women's Studies, especially--people of color or POCs is a standard term these days.
Struck me as strange the first time I heard it used, too.
Just my two cents. :)
"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 17 2014, 11:38pm
Post #25 of 27
(167 views)
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I've heard and seen quite a number of non-white people refer to themselves as "people of color" recently, so I think it is now becoming (at least in some circles) the politically correct term again.
Silverlode
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