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Screencap of the Day 03/12/08

Jazmine
Tol Eressea


Mar 12 2008, 10:14pm

Post #1 of 5 (305 views)
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Screencap of the Day 03/12/08 Can't Post

http://www.framecaplib.com/...ages/ttt/ttt0686.htm

Having been released from Saruman’s grip, Theoden agonises over what to do for the safety of his people. He decides they should make for the fortress of Helm’s Deep, to stand a better chance of victory. But he is full of doubt. As he leads the people of Edoras away toward the mountains, he takes a final look back, at the Golden Hall.

1. How do you think Theoden felt, as he led his people away?
I always felt that in his own mind, Theoden didn't believe he was capable of leading his people thru this crisis. He felt inferior to his forefathers, and this reflected in the doubt he has in his decision. He has no idea if his decision will save his people, or whether he is leading them to their doom. I also believe he felt stupid for allowing himself to be ensared by Saruman, (which of course, wasn't his fault), and this has left him feeling like an unfit King.

2. What emotion does the expression on Bernard Hill’s face convey to you at this point? Is it fitting to the moment?
Absolutely. So many emotions are conveyed in this simple shot. Doubt. Is he doing the right thing? Pain. The death of his beloved son is still fresh, and lies heavily on his heart. Sadness. Leaving Edoras, perhaps never to return. And yet, thru all of that, I still detect a slight hint of defiance. Rohan is not yet lost. He won't go down without a fight.


3. Do you think Theoden has made the right decision? Or should they have stayed at Edoras?
Yes, I think it was the right thing to do. While Theoden's decision put them all in danger in the short term, it was the only chance they had. Defending a smallish settlement like Edoras would be impossible with so few men. So while the journey to Helm's Deep was bound to be perilous, getting them safe inside the walls of the Deep was essential, if they were to have any chance at victory.


4. Any other thoughts?
It's just a really poignant moment, and I think it was really well done. No dialogue, just a shot panning over Edoras, then over the long line of people leaving, coupled with Howard Shore's simple, yet totally fitting piece of music, and then capped off with that look on Theoden's face. A look that said it all.



*Jazminatar the Brown*


weaver
Half-elven

Mar 13 2008, 2:57pm

Post #2 of 5 (167 views)
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Theoden, Theodred, and Aragorn... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a case where for me the films improved on a book character -- Theoden is more of symbol in the book, but in scenes like this, I can see him more as a real person.

My sense is the biggest thing working on Theoden is Theodred's death -- he's guilty about his inability to protect his son, and angry that no one else did either. I base this on the later scene where he gets upset with Aragorn -- "where was Gondor when the Westfold fell, where was Gondor when our enemies closed in around us, where was Gondor when..." ; I always thought the unspoken words that followed that last "when" were "my son was killed..." And "where was Gondor" is also a kind of screen or projection, I think, for Theoden here -- he could also be asking "Where was "I" at the start of each phrase...

That's a lot to deal with. So Theoden withdraws and retreats to deal with it all.

In the commentaries, I know, Phillipa talks some about how the question of "what does it take to be a king?" was something they thought a lot about in developing Aragorn. Theoden was used a great deal to show the responsibilities of a king, I think, and how you have to put yourself aside to lead, etc.. and this allowed them to visually show what Aragorn needed to find within himself. Theoden is the model, really, of what Aragorn has to overcome and become, in film-verse.

The pairing of the two kings in the films was an interesting move, too, in terms of adaptation. In the books, it's more Eomer (the future king of Rohan), who Aragorn has a connection with. It was perhaps purely for practical reasons that they made this switch -- developing Theoden over Eomer allowed them to use one character to develop aspects of both Aragorn and Eowyn's characters. But once they made that choice, they then found an interesting thread to follow in terms of exploring the themes of leadership within the context of Tolkien's tale.

Weaver



mae govannen
Tol Eressea

Mar 13 2008, 3:44pm

Post #3 of 5 (147 views)
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'This is not a defeat, Gamlin; we shall return!...' [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what Théoden has strongly affirmed to Gamlin before starting to lead everyone out of Edoras.
What I see here is the King having some poignant doubts perhaps, but also the touch of defiance you have remarked too. He has made his decision as the King, he believes it is the best choice for his people, but he does intend to return.
Yet... 'Is this the last look I will ever have of Edoras?...', may also be his secret thought in that moment...

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Mar 18 2008, 2:24pm

Post #4 of 5 (125 views)
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Theoden is such a man of conscience [In reply to] Can't Post

After being "taken over" and just now coming out of a walking coma, he's got to wonder if he's doing the right thing. He has Gandalf and the others challenging him, he must be suffering from residual effects of the lies planted in his mind (much as Frodo must suffer), and may even worry if he could fall under the trance again. I think here, though, he must be saying farewell. I think he knows the end of his reign as he's known it is approaching... and has already been lost to a degree.




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Loresilme
Valinor


Mar 27 2008, 2:34pm

Post #5 of 5 (126 views)
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Excellent insights - and very noticeable in the TTT TE [In reply to] Can't Post

Having watched the EEs exclusively, I am now in the process of watching the TEs, and I just recently watched TTT. Without all the added EE scenes, the character of Theoden is much more pronounced in the TE. In addition, the relationship between Aragorn and Theoden, not that I would call it conflict, but, tension, maybe? ("Excuse me, am I sensing some tension here?" Sly ). It points up the difference in Theoden's experience as a leader of men ("Look at my men, their courage hangs by a thread.") and his realization of the costs of war to his people, in his anger at Aragorn stating the obvious ("Open war is upon you."). Theoden knows all these things, I believe, but it's also a case of, 'easy for you to say, Aragorn'. It is so much harder when it is actually you in that chair, er, throne, having to make the decisions. And also ("No ... we are alone."), could also be in a sense, his feeling the weight of really being the one to have to make the decisions, alone.

I found in the TE that I appreciated Theoden's character more than I had previously. And of course Bernard Hill's voice. Yah, what a voice.

 
 

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