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Kthevs
The Shire
Dec 10 2014, 1:17pm
Post #51 of 296
(2029 views)
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If something isn't exactly the way you want, that means it's automatically bad.
(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 11 2014, 12:48am)
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Drakblod
Rivendell
Dec 10 2014, 2:01pm
Post #52 of 296
(1925 views)
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Now that's a Strawman if I've ever heard one!
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Don't try discuss or argue, just call people names. Aside from the name calling, isn't it pretty logic that if I don't like PJs decisions I'm not gonna like the movie?
like butter scraped over too much bread.
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 10 2014, 2:09pm
Post #53 of 296
(1921 views)
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Possitive
Man, it made me cry.. till even now. When thinking back at it.
Only one movie made me very emotional before..
It made me laugh out loud in tears... every time I talked about it for weeks.. ages ago...
Now I cry other tears. That is possitive. It hit the heart.
It touched the soul.
Other than that.. the words that were not spoken, the things that are not said.
Bilbo's "tick" in the face when he is a bit nervous... His whole mouth moves left to right..
I can not even repeat it, the way he does it..
Thorin is also STRONG. He plays the maddnes and the recovery very well.
Not True :
It is not true that the other Dwarfs of the companion play a minor role. Again they choose facial and body language instead of words.
Dain.. but you have already seen that. Not 100% computer made
The staf from Radagast to Gandalf. One does not need a E.E. to understand what happens, although it will be in E.E.
It is filmed very clever. The way Radagast has it in his hand when Gandalf departs and the way Gandalf than has it in his hands.
Smooth and clever.
It is a cut, but one that leaves no questions open
Dol Godur too short.
Well.. I to not know. I think it is long enough.
And you can already see Sauroman is not himself
Lord Elrond says something important and Sauroman has a responds..
This is a movie where you have to watch the faces.. Words are not spoken but text can be seen. That is why it is so good they have major actors.
Negative
Only at one point I thought "NO"
It has to do with the battle Mountain goats and you must see it for yourself. But even though these beasts in the wild can do a lot, At one point it took me out of the movie and I though "No".
Other than that only very minor things .. they will differ from viewer to viewer. It is not so important for this review.
some things *you* like.. others *you* will not.
It was good to see the three movies in a row.
I can advise you to watch a marathon.. if you think it is too long
Watch UEJ en DOS (E.E. or not) before you will watch this movie..
and do watch the three LorR (E.E. or not) afterwards. I am going to do so now here at home...
Overall
P.J. Managed to make a story that was supposed to be for children into a strong message.
Friendship and love do not conquer all. Friends die. But important is what they do before that. What friendship is all about.
Fun thing and in fact for me a "not true" is that Bilbo is there in the whole movie. In reviews before it was stated that he is absent often..
but in a way he is always there. Popping up in the mountain, the city, the battlle field and on the ice.. only at one point, as it was so in the book I suppose, I he is knocked out and gone..
At all other moments he is there, or you know he is there.. running arond with or without the magic ring on the fingers..
It is made clear very well by Gandalfs words..
People. I am very impressed by this movie.
Now we wait until next december to see E.E. and it over
That too should bring a tear to my eye.. but it is a different emotion.
As we have 3 older movies that came after this one. Strange .. but true
For those who lost great friendships and loved ones.. They will feel the power of this movie. A lot
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Elessar
Valinor
Dec 10 2014, 2:15pm
Post #54 of 296
(1859 views)
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Glad you seemed to have enjoyed this quite a bit. Looking forward to seeing it on Monday.
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macfalk
Valinor
Dec 10 2014, 2:51pm
Post #55 of 296
(1892 views)
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Sticky this thread until early-January or so and then remove it? 
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
(This post was edited by macfalk on Dec 10 2014, 2:52pm)
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 10 2014, 5:50pm
Post #56 of 296
(2122 views)
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ha ha..
but remove only the stickyness
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dubulous
Rohan
Dec 10 2014, 6:14pm
Post #57 of 296
(2024 views)
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I have liked every Middle-earth movie more on the second than the first vieweing, and BotFA proved to be no exception. I think I was able to get better immersed in the movie and, knowing the few tacky parts to look out for, they didn't manage to pull me out of it in the same way they did on the first viewing. This time I even got a little misty-eyed at Thorin's death scene with Bilbo.
I think the movie flows much better than the TE of DOS, so that's already a great improvement. To some extent it falls apart towards the end, starting from when Legolas and Tauriel join the battle, but the end pulls it back together for me.
The Tauriel/Kili scenes still bother me, though, and probably always will because I'm just not buying the romance. The movie could have been improved a lot by leaving that out or at least leaving it more ambiguous. I think having Tauriel die by Bolg's hand would have been a great improvement. That moment when she's about to get killed before Kili rushes to save her, is about the only time in these two movies I've felt anything for the character, and it would have been a good exit for her. Having her die there would have not only spared Kili to die later defending Thorin, but also spared the audience from her last scene with Thranduil, which I felt was one of her worst moments.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 10 2014, 9:40pm
Post #58 of 296
(1844 views)
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If I appreciate the romance for anything,
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It's for Thranduil's last line: "That's because it was real." Finally a moment of understanding between him and Tauriel, and a peeling back of Thranduil's layers to the haunted widower.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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grimbeorn15
Rivendell
Dec 10 2014, 10:24pm
Post #59 of 296
(1779 views)
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Uhmmm Dain actually uses the word "bastard"? Seems sort of out of place...like the stupid trouser comment.
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 10 2014, 11:20pm
Post #60 of 296
(1770 views)
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The beginning of the movie is not as you might think.
It does not start at the exact same spot as where we left
I love it how the first sound is the bell over town
and than (a little later) the voice of the Smaug in the distance saying the words we heard before. Beginning with REVANGE
It is still far away, but you can say I am Fire.. I am Deathhhhhh
Echo-ing in the mountains.
I liked it.. We ended DOS with him flying and the view from the mountain, we start with the town and Smaug still in the distance.
And than you see him as a WWII bomber plane as a sitouet in the clouds circling above town. Impressive opening. Very good.
(This post was edited by mirkwoodwanderer on Dec 10 2014, 11:24pm)
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macfalk
Valinor
Dec 10 2014, 11:43pm
Post #61 of 296
(1698 views)
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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grimbeorn15
Rivendell
Dec 10 2014, 11:45pm
Post #62 of 296
(1677 views)
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That just seems weird to me, but maybe it works...
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macfalk
Valinor
Dec 10 2014, 11:49pm
Post #63 of 296
(1675 views)
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Dain in this movie is something out of a character from Braveheart. His accent sounds Scottish, he is loud, he is funny, and he is loyal to his kin.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
(This post was edited by macfalk on Dec 10 2014, 11:50pm)
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 11 2014, 12:02am
Post #64 of 296
(1742 views)
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There is only one moment of dispair when he has to pull back and wonders where Thorin is.
From the early reviews and spoilers I had thought he had a way smaller role in the movie, but you see him actually several times.
He has a nice chat with Gandalf.... makes sure he is not affraid of the Elfes at all.. and than you see several fighting scenes. The last parts he is on foot and clearly no CGI when talking to Thorin.
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Altaira
Superuser
Dec 11 2014, 12:51am
Post #65 of 296
(1650 views)
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---> Please keep spoilers out of subject lines. Insults have also been edited. Please no insults! //
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Thanks.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Dec 11 2014, 1:31am
Post #66 of 296
(1876 views)
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The moment has come to judge out about my expectations and their fulfillement.
Quite a set of years ago, I heard that Peter Jackson was finally jumping into the Hobbit convoy to take up the reins once more.
I as many had been struck by the evergoing miracle that were his three installments of Lord of the Rings and, no least, King Kong.
The miracle that all of them had been done at due time, whithout losing anybody on the way. Many thought that it could'nt be done again.
In my opinion, it was no question that the introduction of another director could achieve to herald such a heritage, and I simply stepped away. Jackson coming back sounded like a duty crawling up its claim : Bilbo had to be done by the ones who made the Ring. At this stage, my remembrances of the book were far and sparse, and I decided to read it again, something i never did with Lord of The Rings, which I have never read. The movie-making of LOTR had so much impressed me that I saw an opportunity to estimate from this new beginning the challenges of such an adaptation.
Soon after reading the book it soon came to my mind how parallel the two stories were :
a long journey East, lauched by a cohort of undersize characters, ending with a huge battle.
How could anybody succeed in meeting the public expectations out of a prequel as similar as a draft ?
The 3D-HFR came as an obvious answer. As legendary as LOTR was, those did only show a flat-screen Middle-Earth
This technological shift had the potential to bridge the gap of consistency between the Hobbit and Lord of The Rings.
Without 3D, there surely wouldn't have been three, and maybe even two movies : fifteen years ago, the first draw had only planned one movie.
So the challenge this time was not to chose which part of the book was to be cut off, but which stuff had to be added. Enough said.
People cringing about the additions and blaming the Jacksons for them just don't get their necessity.
Some day, they'll end realizing the emptiness of calling for two movies when one-book-to-three-movies have to be pioneered.
Three movies we have now. And the Battle of The Five Armies appears, not exactly as the extra-one, but really as the defining one for the three. This movie was the movie I was the most afraid about.
- First, it had the most to add to the book out of tiny bits
- Second, it had to show a battle which was described as an unexpected one, as an inextricable chaos.
- Third, it had to plunge into this battle in a full-scale HD+3D+HFR
- Fourth, this battle had to challenge the two mighty battles of Helm's Deep and Pelennor, without overwhelming them.
- Fifth, The Hobbit was still supposed to be a children movie, PG13, without too much blood
I didn't expect I could want to see such a movie. I didn't expect I could stand such a movie. I didn't expect I could enjoy such a movie.
So, how did it came out ? For me, perfectly fine. In fact, audiences see the least possible of the full-scale battle. Five minutes of melees maybe, but not much more ; instead of the neverending slaughter, we have many, many, many victorious close-ups. Many, many episodes which are NOT the battle :
- We see the sickness of Thorin inside Erebor, which is not the battle in front of Erebor
- We see Legolas and Tauriel in Gundabad, which is not the battle in front of Erebor
- In Bree, we see women of Laketown sent by Bard to a shelter, which is not into the battle
- We see and see again Alfrid Lickspittle, who is doing all his best (or his worse) to avoid the battle
- We see Thranduil fighting almost alone, unattained by foes, then walking alone among the dead corpses, which is after the battle
- We see Thranduil fed up with the blood spent, quitting the battle to come, which is another time avoiding the battle
- We see Thorin out of his madness, jumping into the melee and meeting with Dain : that is not fighting into the melee
- We see trolls, hitten by arrows, falling down by the numbers even before any struggle against dwarves and elves
- We see Azog giving orders with his Chappe Telegraphe, setting so himself a as far away from the battle as a chief can be
- We see much of Bilbo getting in or out of Erebor, talking with gandalf, and wandering here and there without being part of the battle
- We see Legolas jumping here and there, even flying under a giant bat, and emptying off his quiver, i.e. killing at a distance
- We see many characters being saved by other characters, which is avoiding being victims of the battle
- We see the heroes climbing the Raven Hill where they meet their fate one by one, killed sparsely (only three die) far away from the main battle.
- We see only a glimpse of the Eagles arriving and ending the battle after throwing Beorn into it
- Almost all the warriors, elves, dwarves, orcs included, are hidden under heavy armory (orcs get killed by Laketown women nevertheless)
- As I remember, I've seen only ONE orc's head rolling somewhere in front of us at the end of the battle.
So, that's what we have : a tragic battle, but not a graphic bloodshed shaking us with nightmarish close-ups.
That was NOT was I expected, and that's precisely why I'm so happy of what I have seen.
The rest was just splendor everywhere.
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Dec 11 2014, 1:53am
Post #67 of 296
(1693 views)
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The 'Tauriel thing' is the fact Elves can't stand losing their loved ones
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I didn't first catch Tauriel's distress, mostly because of the 3D combined with the close-up : all I saw was a huge head above my head and that was weird, even if it was beautiful Evangeline.
After that, out of the theater I remembered her strange voice when she last called Kili. It was a grave voice, a martial one, almost a male one, like she was giving him an order. I'm pretty sure Tauriel's love towards Kili wasn't a standard one, it was much closer to the love a mother have to her child.
In my opinion, this kind of love doesn't have to be accepted by the audience, it just has to be respected.
You may also consider that the dialog between Thranduil and Tauriel is an elvish one, not a human one. That's why it seems weird to our human ears. Not being able to resist distress for an elf is a disgrace. They can't accept it. They'd prefer to die : that's what Tauriel is asking Thranduil. But Thranduil won't kill her because he survived himself to such a test. Then we can imagine that she will become his queen... after a few centuries of healing. I'm enjoying this idea even if i'm alone in buying it.
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 11 2014, 1:58am
Post #68 of 296
(1740 views)
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Tauriel has been in a forest for ages. Hardly seen the world
it is like with Casanova, some one from outside comes into your small world and has stories to tell
You see a mother-son relation/love
It could also be the child (elf) and the more experienced one.
Is it love.. is it even Real as Thranduil says it is.
That does not matter, f or her.. for them.. it is
How it ends, we will sure see in E.E. next winter, as i am sure she will be at the funeral.. E.E. will have proberbly multiple endings.
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ecliptica
The Shire
Dec 11 2014, 2:06am
Post #69 of 296
(1928 views)
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Just got home after my second viewing if BOTFA, and it is time for a review.
After all these years looking forward to this moment, I am left with mixed feelings.
Mixed because I think this trilogy is a great trilogy, and it is a set of movies I will enjoy for years to come. The last one is a great movie with many great moments in it, especially Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage is spectacular in this film. It is a final goodbye to Middle Earth, and the Battle of the Five Armies does not let you down.
POSITIVES:
It is a fitting end to the trilogy, with a very nice transition into The Fellowship of The Ring.
Thorin`s storyline is marvelous.
Smaug attacking Laketown is masterfully done.
Martin Freeman is fantastic as Bilbo. His best performance of the whole trilogy.
Thorins death: Beautifully played by both Freeman and Armitage, and true to the book.
Big parts of the battle.
The score is fantastic!
Unlike many I have no problems with either Legolas, Tauriel and the love story. I think it was a great addition to the movie.
Dol Guldur... LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
I could have mentioned so much more small details and much more, but all i have to say that it is a great movie. The best one of the trilogy.
NEGATIVES: (I will complement this thorough, mainly because there really aren`t much negatives, but the few negatives are BIG).
The battle itself is as grandiose and epic as i expected it to be, but nevertheless it is nowhere near the battles in LOTR. This is mainly because of the use of cgi. It completely ruins the battle for me. You never get the impression of that it is really any danger or lifes at stake, because you can clearly see in many of the scenes that it is completely fake. It is one of the very first scenes of the battle when we get a view of the frontline of the elves, all of their faces look the same, and it looks like its from a game...
The deaths of Fili and KIli is nowhere near as emotional as I expected it to be.
Unnecessary unnatural moments is also something I got annoyed about. Legolas hanging in a bats legs, a tower falling down perfectly as a bridge after Legolas controls a troll with a sword in its head to break the tower down and other rather stupid moments... I cant understand why they would even consider to include this in the movie... That is the main reason why I think these movies is nowhere near LOTR. Because you dont believe it when you watch it, its like its taken out of a cartoon or a game!
Alfrid: This character is ok in the first couple of scenes in the movie, but it becomes to much. We know he is a coward and only thinks of himself, by the first half of the movie. No need to show this 3-4-5 times after that.
CONCLUSION:
Its a movie that I will enjoy for years to come. I`ve looked forward to to The Hobbit since The Return of The King, and BOTFA is the best movie of the The Hobbit trilogy, but as its two predecessors, it lacks the feeling of "reallity". Completely because of the way to much use of CGI.
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Milieuterrien
Rohan
Dec 11 2014, 2:20am
Post #70 of 296
(1709 views)
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I was stunned when Tauriel pointed her thing toward Thranduil.
I'm not sure such thing couldn't also be absurd, but elves are fast-sensitive, so Tauriel could get very fast deep (inside her) into her feeling toward the dwarf as soon as it began. A human surely would hesitate much much longer.
Kili rushing in help of Tauriel had already lost his loved brother, and his uncle was not in sight. That is, the Jacksons have managed that the uncle was not in his sight. For they wanted Kili's death associated with Tauriel and Tauriel crunched by it, followed by Legolas saddened by Tauriel's grief towards a dwarf : the stakes are getting Legolas out alone in the wild until the ring affair.
Legolas out in the wild means Thranduil getting a toe out of his realm. So Thranduil could get interest into Gollum's story when the moment comes.
(This post was edited by Milieuterrien on Dec 11 2014, 2:24am)
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 11 2014, 3:23am
Post #71 of 296
(1645 views)
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Arannir
Valinor
Dec 11 2014, 8:23am
Post #72 of 296
(1563 views)
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Can one actually hear Smaug's voice and the "revenge " and fire/death" lines in the distance?
I didn't hear that at all... will have to look for it during my second viewing.
Link to my 8.5/10 BotFA Review
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 11 2014, 8:23am)
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 11 2014, 8:30am
Post #73 of 296
(1547 views)
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I think it is around the time of the prison escape, Bard is still in jail
Jjust a couple of seconds before Smaug emerges. It was pretty clear to hear.
starting with the Revenge..... far of in the distance and getting a bit louder later. you can not see him than yet.
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Arannir
Valinor
Dec 11 2014, 8:59am
Post #74 of 296
(1581 views)
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Oh boy... thank got for original screenings.
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I assumne the dubbing people have messed this up... I did not hear that at all in the German version.
Love it though, reminds me of the voices coming out of the mountains in TTT's prologue.
Link to my 8.5/10 BotFA Review
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Dec 11 2014, 9:39am
Post #75 of 296
(1524 views)
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oh.. try to get to a Dutch cinema near you and hear (!) the original film :D
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I assumne the dubbing people have messed this up... I did not hear that at all in the German version.
Love it though, reminds me of the voices coming out of the mountains in TTT's prologue.
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