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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I have seen the film! (Spoiler and Non-Spoiler Review)
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Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 1 2014, 6:28am

Post #1 of 324 (20483 views)
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     I have seen the film! (Spoiler and Non-Spoiler Review)  

I will go more in depth tomorrow because it is getting late on the West Coast but I have just come back from seeing the finished film.


NON SPOILER REVIEW

There is a LOT to enjoy, particularly in the first 2/3 of the movie. I don't think it felt like a single beat was missed. I enjoyed this leg of the film immensely. The last 1/3 has a lot to enjoy but also has many moments that will make even the most forgiving fan a little upset. That said I think the film is quite good, it just wobbles its way to the finish line, which is unfortunate. There are a few over the top scenes that make Bombur's barrel ride in DOS look tame. Also the Tauriel storyline will divide fans.











SPOILER REVIEW

I'll comment on the first 2/3 of the film later. For now I'll focus on the "bad" moments in the last 1/3 of the film. Mostly to put the information out there, and prepare you for the film.

- Dain IS CGI. I'm not sure why, since it seems like they had him in prosthetics for the shoot. For whatever reason he is entirely replaced digitally. While it did take me out of the movie at first, his character is quite small in the story and disappears before the end of the battle. His fate isn't explored in the film.

-Beorn is essentially CUT from the film. He has two or three shots. He rides in on an eagle, jumps off, transforms into a bear as he falls, kills a few orcs and then disappears entirely from the movie. He has maybe 15 seconds of screen time. There HAS to be more. This was the biggest shock, and honestly quite insulting considering they give Legolas WAY TOO much time in the third act.

-Likewise Radagast has had his screentime cut. There is a scene in Rhosgobel early on that follows the events of Dol Guldur that clearly has more to it, they cut mid-scene and it's very clear there is more to the scene. He appears on the eagles at the end but has no lines. I'm assuming there's a scene with him post-battle that is being saved for the EE.

-Legolas has an absolutely absurd battle with Bolg in the third act. By absurd I meant CGI Die Hard with a Vengeance level of bad. He rides a bat up to Ravenhill (flashbacks of Kong) and then proceeds to aid Thorin in battle by firing off arrows at orcs. When Tauriel is in danger he slays an troll, casting him into a large stone tower that crumbles and forms a "bridge" between him and Tauriel who is being tormented by Bolg. What follows is an insane sequences in which Legolas literally seems to create his own gravity. It's an OTT sequence that really feels out of place.

-Legolas and Thranduil share a scene that feels out of a marvel movie. Thranduil tells Legolas to literally go find "Strider." Is Thranduil the Nick Fury of the Fellowship?

-Tauriel's entire character is diminished by the love story that seems undercooked. It's essentially her purpose in the film, to "love Kili" and mourn him when he dies. I missed the bad ass from DOS.

-The "Other" dwarves don't really get any form of sendoff, in fact most of them beyond Thorin, Fili, Kili, Balin and Dwalin are lucky to even have a line. I hope the extended cut rights this, they are horribly robbed. Legolas gets two or three big scenes about his "mother," which feels like a waste of screentime that could have been used on character actually in "The Hobbit."

SUPER SPOILER

-The Durin Boys: Fili once again is shorthanded but has a couple good scenes. His death is a scary moment, he's killed "on display" to Thorin as a taunt. It's a well executed scene but it excludes any fighting or heroics from the character. Likewise, Kili's death is entirely based around his love story with Tauriel. You will either roll with this or not. I have no problem with their story, that said I don't really buy their romance.

-I need to see it again but azog vs. Thorin was a bit too Die Hard for me. It's a cool battle but I wanted an emotional battle. It's an action scene and it was hard for me to feel the same pain I felt when Boromir fought to the death. It shows the huge evolution (and devolution) of PJ's directing.


OTHER SPOILER COMMENTS

-Dol Guldur is short, perhaps more will be included later, but it feels right. Nothing feels unresolved and it's a very nice sequence.

-The Windlance that was set up in DOS has no payoff, it's not even seen in the film or mentioned.

-There are giant worms... why? I'm not sure. They are only briefly in the film but they are an odd inclusion.

-Gundabad was awesome. Not a big part of the movie but it was absolutely a surprise to me that it'd be in the film.

-No Ironhills which is sad. I wonder if there is more to the Dain storyline. It seems quite odd that his part is so small and that he is ENTIRELY CGI'd. A big, big disappointment.

-The original Bolg makes a very small cameo, literally a couple shots. But it was neat to see him again.





FINAL THOUGHTS (FOR NOW):

There is a lot to enjoy. In fact, I think most of the movie, up until Ravenhill is quite excellent. There are lots of nice dialogue scenes. The build up to the battle is incredible. PJ has a lot of restraint which is sorely missed as he goes into the final stretch of the film. Most of the battle is great, it's just when Legolas and Tauriel return that things start to go south. On top of that the post battle sequences are short changed with few characters getting resolution.


(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Dec 1 2014, 6:34am)


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Dec 1 2014, 6:40am

Post #2 of 324 (10411 views)
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     Thank you very much [In reply to]  

for your feedback Dcole.From what i read i conclude that this film is great apart from some minor issues that do not bother me much.Others of course will be infuriated about the unfolding and resolution of some eventsLaugh

I am most interested in the drama aspect,so maybe you can elaborate more on this tomorrow or whenever you can

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"


Bishop
Gondor


Dec 1 2014, 6:40am

Post #3 of 324 (10426 views)
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     Dain is CGI? [In reply to]  

I don't believe you. Only the most lunatic of directors would make such a bizarre decision after having Billy Connolly in full makeup. I choose to not believe you over believing that Jackson could be such a complete moron.


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 1 2014, 6:40am

Post #4 of 324 (10196 views)
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     13 dwarves [In reply to]  

Thanks! I wonder why they had 13 dwarves at all when they easily could have cut half of them without anyone barely noticing their absence.

I will lower my expectations for this film accordingly.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Dec 1 2014, 6:43am

Post #5 of 324 (10205 views)
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     all i am thinking about is [In reply to]  

"pacing"...

PJ,why?!....

I didnt expected much about Beorn since his short DoS cameo but 15seconds in Botfa??? Thats a MASSIVE UPSET PJ!!!!
CGI-Dain but your favourite character Legolas needs to safe the day again with some stupid over the top action scenes ??? Why he has such a big role...damn it.
Cant believe it and im actually glad its the last JACKSON-Middle-Earth movie.


(This post was edited by NoelGallagher on Dec 1 2014, 6:45am)


lidlessEye
Rivendell

Dec 1 2014, 6:45am

Post #6 of 324 (10182 views)
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     Worms :/ [In reply to]  

do they look like alien-worms (Dune) or more like snakes?
Also an article mentioned these worms last month along with giant moles and shrews - could you confirm those?

Seems like frodo58 was right...(Dol Guldur, Beorn, Dain)


Kthevs
The Shire

Dec 1 2014, 6:48am

Post #7 of 324 (10046 views)
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     Thanks for the info [In reply to]  

Could you provide a bit more info about the Tauriel/Kili stuff. Is it very heavy-handed in that she loves him? Does she die?


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Dec 1 2014, 6:51am

Post #8 of 324 (10407 views)
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     Boys and Girls chill out. [In reply to]  

Dcole has already said that the 2/3 of this film is excellent and there are a lot to enjoy in the last third as well.He just had some gripes concerning some events.His review is nowhere near the disappointment he had last year,after his viewing of DOS.Wink

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 1 2014, 6:53am

Post #9 of 324 (10259 views)
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     I'm skeptical. [In reply to]  

I haven't read exactly what Dcole4 wrote (only read the non-spoiler part), and I don't mean any offense - but I'll be waiting on further confirmation on that score.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 1 2014, 6:54am

Post #10 of 324 (10142 views)
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     You know what... [In reply to]  

somehow, there is a part of me hoping these films get absolutely destroyed by both critics and audiences. Maybe then PJ will see sense. Shame it will be too late though....


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 1 2014, 6:54am

Post #11 of 324 (10010 views)
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     Does the trolls have any cool action scenes? // [In reply to]  

 


(This post was edited by Carne on Dec 1 2014, 6:55am)


thomasofrohan
Lorien

Dec 1 2014, 6:55am

Post #12 of 324 (10060 views)
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     Odd comment, considering that Dcole says the majority of the film is "quite excellent" [In reply to]  

 


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Dec 1 2014, 6:56am

Post #13 of 324 (10327 views)
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     impossible by reading the Dain,Beorn and Legolas-stuff. [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Dcole has already said that the 2/3 of this film is excellent and there are a lot to enjoy in the last third as well.He just had some gripes concerning some events.His review is nowhere near the disappointment he had last year,after his viewing of DOS.Wink



Danielos
Rohan

Dec 1 2014, 6:56am

Post #14 of 324 (9941 views)
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     SFX? [In reply to]  

How about the special effects? Are they finished enough? Do many shots look "greenscreen"? Do the armies look like clones?


Bishop
Gondor


Dec 1 2014, 6:56am

Post #15 of 324 (10032 views)
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     Not the parts that matter [In reply to]  

 


Drakblod
Rivendell


Dec 1 2014, 6:56am

Post #16 of 324 (9937 views)
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     You know.. [In reply to]  

I agree. Peter Jackson has completely lost it, wether is that he's simply become a bad director or that he doesn't care is irrelevant. I hope he doesn't get to make another Tolkien adaption.

like butter scraped over too much bread.


thomasofrohan
Lorien

Dec 1 2014, 6:56am

Post #17 of 324 (10011 views)
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     Disappointed to hear about Dain and Beorn [In reply to]  

Beorn gets 15 seconds of screentime? Why has his role been so badly cut down in the TEs of these films? Couldn't they have given him a little more to do? Why even bother including him at all?

Dain being entirely CG is extremely odd. Does he have any dialogue?


redgiraffe
Rohan

Dec 1 2014, 6:57am

Post #18 of 324 (10080 views)
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     my god [In reply to]  

All of that sounds pretty awful. I don't even know what to think here. I can't believe I'm actually considering not watching it. And yes, people, this is a big deal to me.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Dec 1 2014, 6:57am

Post #19 of 324 (9973 views)
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     Yeah,he was so specific about that matter [In reply to]  

but who did not really expect these kind of comments and reactions by some folks?Cool

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Dec 1 2014, 6:57am

Post #20 of 324 (10027 views)
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     Thanks for the forewarning! Poss spoilers [In reply to]  

First off, THANK YOU for being so willing to give us spoiler famished tornsibs these tidbits! I greatly appreciate it, as I still have 17 days before I get to see it! So thank you immensely!

I just wanted to ask a simple question about your spoilers, if I may?

I was wondering what is your general reception overall prior to DOS in terms of Legolas and Tauriel's inclusion into the film narrative? Were you supportive of their inclusion up to this point, were you on the fence about them, or did you dislike them from the word go?

I'm just wondering, because sometimes feelings about a particular character can often influence how a film is received by the viewer. I know someone, for instance, who was so livid about Azog's inclusion in the film narrative that he refuses to have anything to do with the films. Others liked the films, but resented Tauriel and Legolas in them.

I am just wondering which camp you were in, because if you supported them from the beginning then it concerns me greatly what their role is as described by you in BO5A. It would have been drastic for you to be so upset about their role if you liked them from the beginning. But if you were on the fence or disliked their inclusion to begin with, then it makes perfect sense why you don't like their storylines.

Not trying to offend at ALL (I am so grateful that you were willing to do this for all of us! Laugh) but sometimes it helps understanding where the reviewer is coming from when reading about their reception of a film. If someone hates the color purple and goes to see a film done entirely in purple, then they are not likely to give a positive outlook on the film- for them, it's not that great. But if someone loves the color, then they may have a different viewing experience Smile

So where did you stand on our two elvish non-canon characters prior to the film(s)?



Kthevs
The Shire

Dec 1 2014, 6:57am

Post #21 of 324 (9915 views)
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     Not likely [In reply to]  

I'm sure most purists will hate it, but just like with DOS, the majority of the masses will like or love it. Hard to guess a critical score, though.


thomasofrohan
Lorien

Dec 1 2014, 6:59am

Post #22 of 324 (9923 views)
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     Can you describe the scenes that you enjoyed in more detail? [In reply to]  

 


KeenObserver
Lorien


Dec 1 2014, 7:00am

Post #23 of 324 (9934 views)
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     This^ // [In reply to]  

 

”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin


LPUAdit
The Shire

Dec 1 2014, 7:00am

Post #24 of 324 (9956 views)
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     Re-read? [In reply to]  


In Reply To
All of that sounds pretty awful. I don't even know what to think here. I can't believe I'm actually considering not watching it. And yes, people, this is a big deal to me.


You do realize he says that most of the movie is actually excellent.


LPUAdit
The Shire

Dec 1 2014, 7:01am

Post #25 of 324 (9924 views)
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     Smaug destroying laketown? [In reply to]  

I noticed you didn't post much about that but were the scenes done well?

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