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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will Saruman fight with Sauron?

erdildeniz
Rivendell


Nov 22 2014, 6:24pm

Post #1 of 18 (1178 views)
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Will Saruman fight with Sauron? Can't Post

Will he fight? Or will Dol Guldur and with "Leave Sauron to me." If it will, why on earth they put it in the trailer? I don't want to put my faith in the possibility that Dol Guldur will and with that line.


Arandir
Gondor


Nov 22 2014, 6:38pm

Post #2 of 18 (711 views)
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I'm suspecting Galadriel will say ... [In reply to] Can't Post

"No, leave Sauron to ME!" and the whole Saruman vs Sauron anticipation will be lost.

I won't mind seeing Galadriel vs Sauron but I'd also love to see some Chris Lee skills too Smile

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erdildeniz
Rivendell


Nov 22 2014, 6:54pm

Post #3 of 18 (607 views)
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At that point, Galadriel doens' t seem to be able to say that. [In reply to] Can't Post

She's shaking. She's in a shoke, i believe.


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Nov 22 2014, 6:58pm

Post #4 of 18 (689 views)
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There is an alleged description of the scene [In reply to] Can't Post

In a post on page two which claims to be from someone who has seen the film and explains how the scene could make sense with that as the last line. But only read if you want spoilers and of course it may be untrue, though it seems plausible to me.


TiberiusOgden
Bree


Nov 22 2014, 7:16pm

Post #5 of 18 (601 views)
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Of course ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Also it gives me sence... It corresponds with official spoilers from filmmakers ...

Finally we do get to see Galadrielīs incredible power ;o) ... and Saruman with Elrond against ringwraiths ...


erdildeniz
Rivendell


Nov 22 2014, 7:20pm

Post #6 of 18 (612 views)
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Saruman is the hero of Dol Guldur, according to Tolkien. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not Galadriel.


TiberiusOgden
Bree


Nov 22 2014, 7:30pm

Post #7 of 18 (545 views)
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;o) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Not Galadriel.

We dont know exactly ... There is only one sentence about him but we dont know "how?". And on the other hand - each member of white council could be important.

But in the second assault of Dol guldur is obvious who is truly winner a who threw down the walls. ;o)


Remus
Lorien


Nov 22 2014, 7:48pm

Post #8 of 18 (538 views)
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Please show it to me [In reply to] Can't Post

I wanna know what the info is, i dont wanna go into that thread to be spoiled but i need to know if Sauron will NOT fight at all in this movie. Biggest let down of the century i must say.

Could you please post it in a PM or here in spoiler tags?


Thanks!


(This post was edited by Remus on Nov 22 2014, 7:53pm)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Nov 22 2014, 7:54pm

Post #9 of 18 (545 views)
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Well without spoiling [In reply to] Can't Post

To me it sounds like there are several confrontations within the scene involving all parties. It sounds jolly exciting to me, if true.


dubulous
Rohan

Nov 22 2014, 8:00pm

Post #10 of 18 (504 views)
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I'm not sure hero is quite the right word [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure I'd call Saruman the hero of Dol Guldur, because for all his devices that may have been used to achieve victory, he was already a crook at that point.

Anyway, I think while in theory this is the White Council attacking Dol Guldur during the time of The Hobbit, it's not really a matter of just lifting it from the page and transfering it to the screen as is. (Actually, so very little is actually written about the Dol Guldur attack that it's downright necessary to draw material from elsewhere.) I see this whole Dol Guldur storyline more as a mixture of several elements taken from the appendices and woven into this one subplot, so it's bound to be a bit different. Personally I think an encounter between Sauron and Galadriel will actually be more interesting, especially if it eventually ties in with her temptation of the One Ring later on. In Saruman's case, I think it will be enough to see him fight against the Nine - or just basically see him fight on the side of the good guys here, so that his betrayal later on will be at least something of a surprise. We have seen plenty of his power already in LotR, and I'm sure we'll see some more in Dol Guldur, but I don't think a personal confrontation with Sauron is necessary. It might even be contrary. If we see him annihilate Sauron and his cronies in Dol Guldur, why would anyone who only watches the movies believe he would join Sauron later as his subordinate? Sure, there are complex matters of deception, pride, and hunger for power behind it, but since those matters aren't much explored or dealt with in the movies, it would just end up looking odd.

But in any case, if the earlier spoilers are true, it doesn't seem like anyone really comes across as one big hero of Dol Guldur, even if Galadriel gets to have a moment of sorts, and I think that's pretty much how it should be.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2014, 8:11pm

Post #11 of 18 (489 views)
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even if saruman kicks sauron's booty [In reply to] Can't Post

Saruman has no ability to mass armies of orcs like sauron, the only way he could is if he allied with sauron and gained some dark knowledge of breeding orcs/goblins. Plus we all know saruman thought once he possessed the ring he was going to turn on sauron, allying with sauron was just a means to saruman ruling middle-earth. Kind of like the pact between the third reich and the soviet union, both sides knew it wasn't going to last but they needed each other at that time.


The flames of war are upon you..

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Nov 22 2014, 8:12pm)


dubulous
Rohan

Nov 22 2014, 8:26pm

Post #12 of 18 (464 views)
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Sure it's clear in the books but [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, we know what Saruman's motives are, I just don't think it neessarily comes as clearly across in the movies. But anyway, whether seeing Saruman defeat Sauron would be harmful in terms of storytelling or not is admittedly arguable. My main point was that I just personally don't think it's necessary for the story to see Saruman and Sauron face off at this point. I think a moment with Galadriel can give more to these movies as a whole and, unlike with Saruman, we've not really seen any of Galadriel's powers yet.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2014, 10:39pm

Post #13 of 18 (402 views)
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i wouldn't be too worried [In reply to] Can't Post

in the book it says galadriel throws down the walls of dol-guldur. Just because saruman and sauron fight it doesn't mean galadriel takes the last shot.


The flames of war are upon you..


sycorax82
Rohan

Nov 23 2014, 4:02am

Post #14 of 18 (357 views)
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I think it will be one-sided once Saruman gets involved [In reply to] Can't Post

My guess is that Saruman appears out of nowhere to save the day, absorbing the flames of the Eye into his staff then blasting the Nine over the edge of the fortress. The others ask what they should do now and he says 'leave Sauron to me'. They do as he says, retreating from Dol Guldur to safety. Saruman then swipes the Palantir from its pedestal and places his staff to it...

Radagast heals Gandalf, though in doing so falls to the floor and hands him his staff, saying he will do more good with it than he ever could. Radagast transforms into a small flock of birds who scatter away.


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 23 2014, 9:04am

Post #15 of 18 (301 views)
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OT: If Radagast dies? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm going off topic because I don't want to start a new thread, but...

If Radagast dies, will it conflict with Saruman's quote in RotK "I suppose you want the keys to Barad Dur itself, along with the Crowns of Seven Kings and the rods of the five wizards!"?

Interestingly, movie Gandalf apparently already has one of these rods (if he's referring to the staves) and shortly after the quote he destroys another. So that's three out of five. Maybe Saruman was on to something.


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Nov 23 2014, 9:14am

Post #16 of 18 (307 views)
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I think Saruman is speaking symbolically [In reply to] Can't Post

About notional status, rather than about physical objects. So not really an issue either way I don't think.


Nerven
Rivendell

Nov 23 2014, 12:10pm

Post #17 of 18 (263 views)
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. [In reply to] Can't Post

If the Frodo guy tells the truth then the Dol Guldur plot will end with this line, Dunno, I would be OK with that, for Iīm more excited to see Galadriel and what he said about her, sounded very good.


dreamflower
Lorien

Nov 24 2014, 2:06pm

Post #18 of 18 (191 views)
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Radagast's fate [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote
Radagast heals Gandalf, though in doing so falls to the floor and hands him his staff, saying he will do more good with it than he ever could. Radagast transforms into a small flock of birds who scatter away.


in the movie-verse? Could be, only instead of birds, it's moths.

 
 

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