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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Nov 15 2014, 3:26pm
Post #1 of 13
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Chapter of the Week: A Spell of Concealment
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And here is my CHOW. It's been a while since I hoasted my last one so I was eager to picked another one after a longer break. Though this particular scene may not be so long or important as some others, we have an investigator Gandalf in it and that is all that counts for me!
1.) We see Gandalf and Radagast traveling to Dol Guldur on bunny sleeds. You think we should see more of their journey from Rhudaur? Like stopping in Rivendell or at Radagast's home?
2.) Gandalf sends Radagast away, claiming that he will venture into the fortress alone. What do you think was his plan all along? What do you think of Radagast's reaction, did he willingly leave Gandalf or not?
3.) Soon Gandalf is alone, investigating Dol Guldur on his own. How did you feel while watching those scenes? Were you nervous or anxious what is going to happen?
4.) According to Gandalf's words a spell of concealment lies over Dol Guldur which he tries to remove by using spell in Quenya "No evil can hide here; I command you to go away! / I order you to reveal yourself." Do you like the way he is speaking in elven language? Do you like the way his magic way portrayed?
5.) Suddenly we gaze upon Azog and other orcs that are hiding amongst the ruins, listening to Gandalf's enhancement. While some of them seems to be afraid of the wizard, Azog doesn't show any fear or surprise . You think he was waiting for Gandalf or just preparing for comming war march?
6.) What are your thoughts about the music we hear in this scene?
7.) Any other observations/comments on this particular scene?
I didn't include questions for EE because there are big differences between both versions and I believe EE will be discussed later.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Nov 15 2014, 3:59pm
Post #2 of 13
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1. IT Would be appropiate for Raddy to take Thrainzz Body to
Erebor on his Sled...Perfect size to carry a Body..
AND on the way, stops @ his Home for Supplies.
Thrainzz body needzz to be buried with hiz son.
2. Gandalf workzz alone.
3. Excited? more than anything
Else.
4. This "Bubble of Goodness" Thingie?
izz a Great Call-Back to the Bridge of Khazad-dum
only shown briefly there..SSOoo. it waz really Nice to see
for a bit longer..
AND when we see all 6 movies in Order..
IT will be Great!
5. SUPER
Arrogant Bad Boyzz
Aren't
AFRAID of
Anyone.
6. The Music was Perfect,
which izz what
Howard Always does.
Not Really much to add.
bom
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Nov 15 2014, 4:01pm)
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 15 2014, 4:54pm
Post #3 of 13
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"Cé ná ulco sís nurtaina… I ettuluvas caninye! Cánin i sá tanuvaxe!"
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1. No, I think it's good the way it is. Any extra scenes would have likely just dragged out the whole Dol Guldur subplot, without really adding much to the story.
2. Gandalf aims to strike two birds with one stone: (a) to force the Necromancer to reveal himself and (b) to have the White Council take action against Sauron. He is willing to risk his own well-being to force the WC (namely Saruman) to confront the Enemy.
Radagast is clearly surprised to learn that Gandalf means to enter the fortress alone, but knows him well enough not to start arguing with him. Given a choice, Radagast would surely remain at his friend's side instead of leaving, but at this point he knows it would be futile to try to convince Gandalf to change his mind - the latter's determination to go in alone is obvious.
3. I got the feeling you get when you know something bad is going to happen and the only question that remains is: when will it happen? A creeping fear, anxiety of sorts.
4. Yes and yes. Gandalf's use of Quenya adds mysteriousness to his presence, gives the spell an arcane quality. His magic is portrayed very believably in this scene: the visual effects are impressive, yet subtle.
5. I don't believe Azog expected Gandalf to show up. His lack of emotions implies that he doesn't really care about the wizard. He is already on the battlefield in his thoughts, with no doubt in his mind that he and his master will succeed, thus fearing no one.
6. The music is top notch, as always. Unsettling, unnerving and ominous.
7. The exterior shots of Dol Guldur haven't made a big impression on me so far, but I do like the details we see while travelling through the old fortress: the weathered stone, the chains, the vines, the old bones etc. *shudders* Creepy (as it is supposed to be).
Thank you, Old Pilgrim, for putting together such a fine CHOW on such short notice! Way to go! 
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Nov 15 2014, 5:00pm
Post #4 of 13
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I think the Fells, since the movement of the scene, have probably hopped the Misty Mountains, and are now supposed to be on the East (with a nudge to the border of Rhudaur)
I also wonder if Sauron wasn't well aware, and even welcoming of members of the WC at DG - hence Azog's lack of surprise. In the text at least, he had "long watched" them and "prepared against (their) stroke".
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Macfeast
Rohan
Nov 15 2014, 6:16pm
Post #5 of 13
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1.) We see Gandalf and Radagast traveling to Dol Guldur on bunny sleeds. You think we should see more of their journey from Rhudaur? Like stopping in Rivendell or at Radagast's home?
Normally I would have endorsed a little longer of a travelogue (though not the stops at Radagast's and Rivendell), but this sequence follows so closely to another travelogue - that of Bilbo and the dwarves traversing the desolation of Smaug - that what we got feels about right.
2.) Gandalf sends Radagast away, claiming that he will venture into the fortress alone. What do you think was his plan all along? What do you think of Radagast's reaction, did he willingly leave Gandalf or not?
I don't think Gandalf had much of a plan. It's not like in the books where this was more of an intentional effort; After the High Fells, Gandalf was intent upon rejoining Bilbo and the dwarves, and was convinced by Radagast into going to Dol Guldur to investigate.
I suppose it is possible that he might have come up with something on the way from the High Fells, but... EDIT: Actually, what BlackFox suggested does makes sense... though I think it was very much a last minute, heat-of-the-moment decision.
As for Radagast, he seemed very shocked to hear that Gandalf would go alone; I reckon he did not easily go through with Gandalf's wish. Birdpoop aside, I'm finding a lot to like in McCoy's Radagast.
3.) Soon Gandalf is alone, investigating Dol Guldur on his own. How did you feel while watching those scenes? Were you nervous or anxious what is going to happen?
It's all very, very tense; A creeping suspicion that something will happen, but without the knowledge of what. The fact that nothing actually ends up happening (until we return later, of course) doesn't take away from that, it only adds to the creepiness.
Good usage of silence (as in, the lack of a soundtrack), by the way. Adds a great deal to the strong waiting-for-something-to-happen tension already present.
4.) According to Gandalf's words a spell of concealment lies over Dol Guldur which he tries to remove by using spell in Quenya "No evil can hide here; I command you to go away! / I order you to reveal yourself." Do you like the way he is speaking in elven language? Do you like the way his magic way portrayed?
This sequence is quite nice. Always nice to get to see a little more of Gandalf's magic.
5.) Suddenly we gaze upon Azog and other orcs that are hiding amongst the ruins, listening to Gandalf's enhancement. While some of them seems to be afraid of the wizard, Azog doesn't show any fear or surprise . You think he was waiting for Gandalf or just preparing for comming war march?
I don't think he was waiting for Gandalf, or expecting the Wizard to show up; It was Gandalf who revealed himself when he began chanting the spell. Azog's lack of fear and/or surprise seems fairly consistent with his character; The only times I can remember seeing him lose his cool, would be at Azanulbizar upon losing his arm, and at the end of AUJ when the eagles swooped in to save the day. Here, in the fortress of his master, with legions of orcs at his back, I would imagine he is at his most confident.
6.) What are your thoughts about the music we hear in this scene?
Sets the mood quite nicely, I say.
7.) Any other observations/comments on this particular scene?
Good choice of color and lighting.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Nov 15 2014, 6:24pm)
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NateGate
Rivendell
Nov 15 2014, 8:59pm
Post #7 of 13
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How did you get the images to fit like that? I always have a nightmare of a time trying to post images on forums.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 16 2014, 1:06am
Post #9 of 13
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One of the few scenes I thought was better in IMAX 3D than in 2D
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Answers:
1) No. Although I love seeing Rivendell and Radagast's home was charming, showing them stop in either place would have slowed the story down and I think the pace of the scene was where it needed to be to set up tension.
2.) I think Gandalf's plan was to get in, prove the Necromancer was there and get out, preferably in one piece.
From Radagast's reaction I felt like he was stalling a little instead of just leaving, but with as long as he's known Gandalf I'm sure he knew that Gandalf knows what he's doing. However I do think Radagast was worried and at the least will have gone & told the other White Council members what was going on, and may have a hand in the Next movie in helping Gandalf escape or at least giving him his staff.
3.) IIRC when I saw this in theaters I knew what would happen but not exactly how it would happen so I was anxiously waiting to see how things would play out.
4.) I LOVED the way Gandalf was speaking elvish in this scene and I thought the way his magical dome of light spreads out and the sound effects that go with it were SO COOL!
5.) I think Azog was preparing for the war march, Gandalf showed up and interrupted, labor hid but was prideful enough in his Master's plans that he figured he'd just surprise the wizard, beat him up and get back to business.
6) I actually didn't notice the music at first...too distracted by how cool Gandalf was I guess, but once I noticed it I thought it suited the scene well.
That's all my thoughts on this scene I guess.
P.S. I'm writing this on my phone so if I miss any major typos or strange auto corrects I apologize in advance.
"There's distraction buzzing in my head,
Saying in the shadows it's easier to stay.
But I've heard rumors, of true reality.
Whispers of a well-lit way.
When the world has fallen out from under me,
I'll be found in You, still standing.
When the sky rolls up and mountains fall on their knees,
When time and space are through.
I'll be found in You."
~Shadowfeet by Brooke Fraser
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Nov 16 2014, 7:40am
Post #10 of 13
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Though Dol Guldur got just a by-the-way mention by Gandalf, it is a more than welcome addition to the narrative for me. At lease it is fleshing out something that did happen in the book
1) it's ok to not see more of the journey, we've seen Radagast's pad already. But, I'd like to check in on how Sebastian is doing.
2) Gandalf seemed pretty prepared to go it alone, so yes, to me, it was hus plan to go solo. Radagast, on the other hand, seemed worried or surprised at Gandalf's plan. But then, Radagast's always a few flaps short of updated.
3) Concern. Having read the book, the pre-knowledge of stuff that probably wil go down took out the surprise element. But DG is very coolly realised.
4) The treatment and concept of Gandalf's magic fits how magic is portrayed in ME. You see the results, but the mechanics aren't overtly showed.
5) Both. Spies would have reported the trespassing. And it's not like either Gandalf or Radagast have been stealthy about their aproach.
6) The music is suitably atmospheric.
7) Dol Guldur has some serious foundations to support the level of disturbance from Gandalf's spell without collapsing altogether.
Thanks, Old Pilgrim.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy.  " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan)
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them.  )
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"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Nov 16 2014, 7:41am)
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Kim
Valinor
Nov 16 2014, 9:56pm
Post #11 of 13
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1.) We see Gandalf and Radagast traveling to Dol Guldur on bunny sleeds. You think we should see more of their journey from Rhudaur? Like stopping in Rivendell or at Radagast's home?
It was kind of interesting how the bunny sled was almost a non-issue in this scene. It was such a noticeable mode of transport in AUJ, but here it was more matter of fact let’s just get the characters there. I don’t think we needed to see more of their journey, although we do have to wonder, what happened to Gandalf’s horse? Did he let it go when he got to the High Fells, and it eventually made its way back to Beorn’s?
2.) Gandalf sends Radagast away, claiming that he will venture into the fortress alone. What do you think was his plan all along? What do you think of Radagast's reaction, did he willingly leave Gandalf or not?
Hmmm, I think Gandalf was kind of making it up as he went along, and once Radagast convinced him that the world was in danger and that he couldn’t just re-join the Company, he set his mind on finding out what was going on in Dol Goldur. Once they got there and Gandalf sensed the spell of concealment and that the enemy wasn’t at his full strength, he realized they needed to act quickly, and therefore sent Radagast off for reinforcements. Initially, I think Radagast was concerned at the thought of Gandalf going in alone based on his previous experience there. But he did agree that something needed to be done. I loved his reaction with the “yes yes yes yes”, slightly annoyed in the manner of “yes, of course I’ll do it, quit bugging me.” 
3.) Soon Gandalf is alone, investigating Dol Guldur on his own. How did you feel while watching those scenes? Were you nervous or anxious what is going to happen?
Well, it certainly is a creepy place, and I had no idea what might happen, so was kind of on edge during the whole thing, especially since he was already pretty sure it was a trap. The whole setting was just so foreboding, all those sharp thorns and metal additions to the stonework.
4.) According to Gandalf's words a spell of concealment lies over Dol Guldur which he tries to remove by using spell in Quenya "No evil can hide here; I command you to go away! / I order you to reveal yourself." Do you like the way he is speaking in elven language? Do you like the way his magic way portrayed?
I did like seeing Gandalf perform the spell – his magic is used so sparingly, it’s always cool to see it, both the elvish words and the use of his staff to bring forth the force of light. I did wonder at his attempts to break the spell, telling the evil that was hidden there to show itself. Brave or foolish thing to do when you’re alone?
5.) Suddenly we gaze upon Azog and other orcs that are hiding amongst the ruins, listening to Gandalf's enhancement. While some of them seems to be afraid of the wizard, Azog doesn't show any fear or surprise. You think he was waiting for Gandalf or just preparing for comming war march?
Well, the other orcs probably don’t have much experiencing beyond mindless killing, and having another powerful magical being enter the place and demand that the spell be lifted was probably pretty intimidating, first that he could even sense that there was a spell, and second that he immediately tries to lift it. As for Azog, with his direct experience with the necromancer, it seems like he did know Gandalf might show up, either from having chased the Company for so long, or from the necromancer. Azog actually says, “The Wizard has come.” which does seem like he was expecting him. Plus, knowing he was building an army probably made him pretty confident that they could take on any intruders.
6.) What are your thoughts about the music we hear in this scene?
Very dark and ominous, then creepy with the strings, so perfectly fitting. And then the lack of music makes it feel abandoned and evil.
7.) Any other observations/comments on this particular scene?
Very visually striking as we start to explore, it’s a place that pretty much screams keep out, bad things will happen here.
I didn't include questions for EE because there are big differences between both versions and I believe EE will be discussed later.
Yes, I needed to re-watch this scene as I’m starting to get a little muddled on how the EE really changes things up. We should have an interesting compare and contrast later.
Thorin’s hair: still looking absolutely #majestic from the prior scene, gently blowing in the breezes as they cross the lake approaching the Lonely Mountain, then starting the long trek up. 
Thanks for hosting Old Pilgrim!
Join us every weekend for The Hobbit Chapter of the Week discussions!
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cats16
Half-elven
Nov 18 2014, 6:35am
Post #12 of 13
(4289 views)
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Oh that's a bad pun, and I'm not sorry at all.
But yes, I fully agree with the role of silence in this scene. Well said, both of you.
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Nov 18 2014, 2:45pm
Post #13 of 13
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for all your replies! It was interesting reading them through and hearing your opinions.
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