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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
BOT5A TRAILER 2 OUT!!!
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shadowdog
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 1:51am

Post #326 of 348 (3325 views)
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     You have the right [In reply to]  

to say it is atrocious. But to say nobody can say it is good is beyond the pale and unacceptable.


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 7 2014, 2:07am

Post #327 of 348 (3330 views)
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     I'm 99% certain you're right, actually [In reply to]  

I've looked at the shots that I think look bad and they're very definitely incomplete. I'm sure once they're touched up and graded it will look fine.
Thranduil's cloned elves worry me a bit, though. Because they looked bad in An Unexpected Journey too. They just get away with it for the very short shot in AUJ, but they better be touched up for BoFA.

Regarding my previous post, I have to admit I didn't expect an explosion of people desperately defending the films after me expressing a rather minor concern in what I thought was a very honest and positive manner Crazy Slightly confused, I'm sorry about that.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 2:17am

Post #328 of 348 (3335 views)
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     Kili's line [In reply to]  

"I will not hide while others fight our battles for us!" Smile

Thanks a heap for the transcript Silverlode! Such wonderful lines, such evocative and emotional words!

I think this is going to be the best hobbit film yet by FAR! Heart



Dwarewien
Rohan


Nov 7 2014, 2:22am

Post #329 of 348 (3319 views)
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     Tell me about it... [In reply to]  

since watching what happens to him will be like watching a close friend of family member go through the same thing and not being able to do anything about it. If it brought a tear to Dwalin's eye (not sure how I feel about that yet), just imagine what it will do to the rest of us (especially those of us that don't succumb to tears that easily. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them). Don't you hate that helpless feeling, but regardless what happens to Thorin, I'll be on his side no matter what (just thought that I would mention that, since there's nothing Thorin could do that would cause me to hate him, that's just not going to happen).Unsure


"Will you follow me... one last time?"


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 2:47am

Post #330 of 348 (3295 views)
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     Absolutely agreed. [In reply to]  

People have extremely warped perceptions of what is real and what isn't - and you're absolutely right, the culprit is films and video games that make stuff like explosions look more dramatic than they really are.

For instance, from my time in the military, I know that grenade explosions look nowhere as dramatic or flashy as what they've been portrayed in films. But people who haven't seen any real grenade explosions will only have exaggerations in film and video games to go upon.


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 2:51am

Post #331 of 348 (3274 views)
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     Hope so too! [In reply to]  

It's actually slightly odd that they can make all the orcs stand out and look different digitally, yet the elves look cloned.

However, to be fair, the DOS trailer had unfinished CGI as well that was eventually fixed in the theatrical film, so I wouldn't worry.

In any case I definitely wouldn't be nitpicking and looking out for unfinished CGI when watching the film - I intend to get totally swept up by the drama and emotion! Smile

And I didn't think your concern in your previous post came across as trolling or negative in any way.


Nira
Lorien


Nov 7 2014, 3:27am

Post #332 of 348 (3290 views)
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     EPIC! [In reply to]  

That was a fitting final trailer! I'm going to watch it over and over for the next month.

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 7 2014, 4:40am

Post #333 of 348 (3247 views)
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     When you signed on to this site, [In reply to]  

you agreed to our Terms of Service. While you have the right to your opinion, your participation on this site is contingent on compliance with our Terms of Service.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Nov 7 2014, 5:08am

Post #334 of 348 (3231 views)
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     Thank goodness, the lesser of two evils [In reply to]  

Thranduil killing Tauriel or any elf would be disastrous within the context of Tolkiens work. I realise this is a movie adaptation but Tolkien is the source no matter how loose the interpretation, and elf on elf murders are a rarity in the entire history of Arda's mythology, and to see this happen on film as just another occurrence would be terrible beyond belief. It is bad enough that we have already had in the filmverse Gandalf as a representative of the Valar that was meant to have been the only Istar that stayed true to his mission, hitting the Steward of Gondor and Aragorn beheading an emissary during parley.


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 5:09am

Post #335 of 348 (3230 views)
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     Agree with you on all points... [In reply to]  

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Nov 7 2014, 5:14am

Post #336 of 348 (3221 views)
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     bats [In reply to]  

I've made the mistake of reading some youtube comments, and I'm amazed and frustrated by people's need to complain about things that they obviously know nothing about. There are so many people complaining about the bats of all things and saying that Peter Jackson is just making stuff up and that bats have no place in Tolkien's Middle-earth...Crazy


cats16
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 5:38am

Post #337 of 348 (3239 views)
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     A couple of thoughts... [In reply to]  

I haven't gotten to scan the masses of threads yet, but some general thoughts:

- The "tunnels" shot looked to me like it was some sort of exit from Gundabad. I didn't think it to be anywhere near Erebor. It reminded me of some sort of tunnel that one would find on the roadway, going through a mountain.

- Saruman's transition into FOTR seems to be on a very smooth path. I'm curious to read Darkstone's thoughts on it, as I know he's posted on that topic several times.

- No comment on CG stuff, other than that, without theatrical quality sound/final edits of shots, I choose not to talk about the cake before it's out of the oven.

- So excited by what we saw, but also how much we didn't see.

*watches trailer once more*



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 6:01am

Post #338 of 348 (3212 views)
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     Great, but too discrete, this transcript of yours! [In reply to]  

I nearly missed it!!! And yet i was looking anxiously for a transcript everywhere...

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 7:57am

Post #339 of 348 (3157 views)
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     Lol [In reply to]  


In Reply To
If you watch the end of the trailer when Bilbo is putting the ring on his finger, you can see it is his middle finger he is putting the ring in, haha this was actually funny :D


Thank you! I noticed this as well. Part of me is thinking that Martin does this intentionally.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 8:10am

Post #340 of 348 (3166 views)
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     Well [In reply to]  


In Reply To
What can we define as "real?" When was the last time any one of you saw 10,000 arrows flying through the air in one large wave? Or when did you last see an enormous troll fight a bunch of orcs? How about the last time you saw a dwarf fall two stories onto your face????

No matter what example it is, these things are all fake. I understand that tweaking things here and there can make them look better in terms of color, texture, etc...but when people complain about something looking fake or out of place, where is the comparison?

It's not like seeing a person walk down the street in real life and then seeing a CGI person walk down a street in a movie and compare the two. It's totally different. The fact that they can recreate these huge scenes and make it actually look like a dragon swoops down and throws flames on a bunch of goblins and destroys buildings is pretty amazing.

Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?

I get that some CGI shots are a bit less convincing, and I'm sure they can get cleaned up before the final cut. Even so, Instead of looking at the glass half empty, or even shattered, blown up, and disintegrated for that matter, try looking at it a little more positively.
If it wasn't for Peter and these guys at WETA making these movies, we wouldn't see anything at all.

I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.



I can't speak for everyone. I can only speak for myself, however, I'm sure many others who feel the same way about the CGI would agree with what I'm about to say. We do have something to compare it to: The Lord of the Rings movies.

Yes, the quality of CGI is probably much better (for the most part) in these films than in LOTR, seeing as the technology is more advanced. However, there are many of us who think that the hobbit doesn't look as realistic as LOTR, and a lot of it has to do with CGI.

There can be many different reasons as to why some of us think the CGI in the hobbit looks more fake than what we've seen in LOTR. Part of it is the more widespread use of CGI throughout the hobbit trilogy, as apposed to using more sets/prosthetics/locations/minatures. Another part of it is the crispness and cleanliness of the digital camera that makes CGI more apparent.

Usually the response I receive when I say that is, "Well PJ couldn't use miniatures and had to use CGI and digital because of 3D and 48fps, etc." Well, I already know PJ couldn't use miniatures and filmed on digital for the 3D and 48fps. But that still doesn't change the fact that I think the film looks less realistic than LOTR. In fact, it actually supports my argument (at least from my point of view) that the films look different.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 8:13am

Post #341 of 348 (3147 views)
Shortcut
     unless [In reply to]  


In Reply To
They're going the wrong way, right?

If the tunnels are a way for the orcs to get fronm Gundabad to Erebor in secret, we ought to see them coming out of the tunnels near Erebor. But here they are going into the tunnels.

Seems to me that it would be more exciting to show the orcs arriving at the battlefield, instead of starting on their journey (if that's what they are doing).


Unless the tunnels are more or less in front of Mount Gundabad and not exactly in it.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 8:15am

Post #342 of 348 (3166 views)
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     Pretty great trailer. [In reply to]  

My hopes for BotFA keep going up and down, but with this trailer i'm excited about seeing this final film again. Way too much Kili for me, but otherwise probably the best trailer of all the Hobbit films. Some choice moments for Gandalf, Elrond and Saruman(!), and those trolls with the siege weapons strapped to their backs were absolutely fantastic. I still have a feeling that there's going to be much too much digital double cgi action wankery going on (Legolas, Bolg. Azog, that weird Harry Potter looking goblin baby thing), but it is looking like BotFA is going to be the tightest-- and least disappointing-- of the Hobbit films.

I remain cautiously optimistic.

P.S. In the shot with Thranduil and Bard riding amongst the elven warriors, all the elves have the exact same face. I'm assuming that will be fixed by release.


Drakblod
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 8:29am

Post #343 of 348 (3145 views)
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     Great points [In reply to]  

Also there's two kinds of bad CGI, there's both CGI that just looks bad (like Legolas riding on the bridge at the end of Desolation of Smaug) then there's the CGI that's designed bad (Like Azog, while his CGI quality is pretty good his skin just very smooth and thus looks unnatural)

Bolg was an improvement, and I hope that the armor is covering most of him so Azog'll look better too.

like butter scraped over too much bread.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 10:37am

Post #344 of 348 (3112 views)
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     Ditto, Thranduiliel [In reply to]  

to everything you've said. Well, there's nothing for it but to dig in and wait for the movie I guees. With fingers tightly crossed. EvilCrazy

"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy. Cool" - vanima ephel



I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan) Smile
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them. Laugh)

Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XXII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 7 2014, 6:44pm

Post #345 of 348 (3043 views)
Shortcut
     Well [In reply to]  

I like Loresilme's idea that Saruman could be the hero of Dol Guldur. It would definitely cement his bonfides as the most powerful of the Istari. And first-timers watching the films in order will nod knowingly at Gandalf's "I must see the head of my order. He is both wise and powerful. Trust me Frodo, he'll know what to do." and then be as horrified as Gandalf at his later betrayal.

(I still feel *any* foreshadowing of Saruman's treachery will seriously diminish the concept of a wise Gandalf.)

Perhaps the *only* foreshadowing would be The White Council agreeing to keep an eye out for The One Ring.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


cats16
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 8:18pm

Post #346 of 348 (3024 views)
Shortcut
     Interesting [In reply to]  

I really like that idea. It builds the audience's trust in Saruman, which will make the events of FOTR feel all the more sinister (and tragic).

And to me it seems that showing Saruman's corruption so soon would taint the huge reveal in Orthanc, as you mentioned in another post.



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 7 2014, 11:32pm

Post #347 of 348 (3008 views)
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     Yes, quite right. It's been corrected. // [In reply to]  

 

Silverlode



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"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 8 2014, 2:37am

Post #348 of 348 (3014 views)
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     Just locking this because the number of responses has exceeded 300 [In reply to]  

We have found that long threads like this clog up the boards, so we will lock threads once they exceed 300 responses. Please carry on in other active threads.

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