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Tom Bombadil Interpretation

Cari
Bree

Oct 29 2014, 8:03pm

Post #1 of 24 (4854 views)
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Tom Bombadil Interpretation Can't Post

I know that Tom Bombadil is purposefully meant to be a mystery and that is one of the main things that makes him such a great character to me personally; however, I was curious as to what everybody's personal interpretation/theory of him is.

I tend to think of him as an embodiment of Arda itself who has been around since the Music of the Ainur.


Darkstone
Immortal


Oct 29 2014, 8:41pm

Post #2 of 24 (4540 views)
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A Marty Stu [In reply to] Can't Post

He's Tolkien.

“Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the Little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.”

That is, the author existed first, before his world, before its inhabitants, before its events.


The most playful phrase in the book is “Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?” It's Tolkien saying "Hello! Pleased to meet you!" to the anonymous reader.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Oct 29 2014, 10:31pm

Post #3 of 24 (4469 views)
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Personal interpretation [In reply to] Can't Post

Since Tolkien himself refused to specify Bombadil's origin, I think he's just an odd, powerful person that doesn't fit into the scheme of things.

Though what he says gives me enough clues to think that he's an early renegade Ainu who settled his own little corner of Arda, and that's all he ever wanted. So when I try to fit him into the scheme of things, that's how I fit him in. Not as Eru or Arda or another Vala we already know, but a pre-world being who was a loner from the start.


cats16
Half-elven


Oct 29 2014, 11:55pm

Post #4 of 24 (4441 views)
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"He is." :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




(This post was edited by cats16 on Oct 29 2014, 11:58pm)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 30 2014, 12:42am

Post #5 of 24 (4425 views)
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Yes, he IS. And his boots are yellow! :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has a broken thing.
- BG


Cirashala
Valinor


Oct 30 2014, 5:42am

Post #6 of 24 (4487 views)
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I think you just finally solved the riddle! [In reply to] Can't Post

Very hobbity of you! Cool

Actually, I think your very simple explanation rings true of the very instances where hobbits find seemingly simple answers in riddles that befuddle more complex beings- kind of reminds me of the West Gate of Moria in Fellowship!

That seems to be the very sort of thing that Tolkien would do- give an explanation for Tom in the form of a riddle that his readers can solve.

Mods up! I'd say you hit the nail on the head with this one (though that essay that's gone through here a couple times with Tom being an incarnation of the Music of the Ainur is an interesting theory too) Cool



Elarie
Grey Havens

Oct 30 2014, 12:42pm

Post #7 of 24 (4431 views)
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The first fashion victim? [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously, though, I've never wondered that much about exactly who Bombadil is, but I have wondered a lot about the way Tolkien dressed him. I've always had the feeling that there was a reason for those particular clothes and colors, that perhaps Tolkien was drawing from some source, and especially when he mentions the feather in Tom's hat. Does anyone know of any British or north European legends about characters who dress like that? If it's not that, then my other theory is that perhaps it was some sort of private joke, based on someone Tolkien knew, or perhaps even on himself. Just wondering. Smile

__________________

Farewell hope,
and with hope
farewell fear.

John Milton


rangerfromthenorth
Rivendell

Oct 30 2014, 2:57pm

Post #8 of 24 (4458 views)
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Shameless self-promotion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is my theory, warning: it is way too long.
www.whoistombombadil.blogspot.com/

Not all those who wander are lost


geordie
Tol Eressea

Oct 30 2014, 6:10pm

Post #9 of 24 (4414 views)
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Of course it's Ronald - [In reply to] Can't Post

- take two of Tom's names; Orald and Forn. Mixe 'em up and you get 'For Ronald'.

Q.E.D.

Smile


Cillendor
Lorien


Oct 30 2014, 6:55pm

Post #10 of 24 (4413 views)
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YOU are the genius who came up with that theory!??!? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Here is my theory, warning: it is way too long.
www.whoistombombadil.blogspot.com/


This is the most sensible theory I've ever heard for who Tom Bombadil is. I was going to post it here until I saw that you did. You have my undying respect, sir or madam.


rangerfromthenorth
Rivendell

Oct 30 2014, 7:01pm

Post #11 of 24 (4384 views)
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Genius is too much, but thank you nonetheless... [In reply to] Can't Post

it was a lot of work, but it was a lot fun too. If you enjoy diving deep into LotR then this theory is for you. BTW Io owe a lot of this theory to TORn, my close friends, and steuard jensen's article on Bombadil who sent me on this search because I thought he was so close to nailing it.

Not all those who wander are lost


Magradhaid
The Shire

Oct 30 2014, 8:56pm

Post #12 of 24 (4379 views)
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doll [In reply to] Can't Post

The 'source' for his outfit would be a Dutch doll his children (or perhaps just his son Michael*) owned, having a blue jacket, yellow boots, and a hat with a feather in it.

*Scull and Hammond note in Companion and Guide that the doll "belonged to his children (according to some sources; according to Biography it belonged to his second son, Michael.)"


Elarie
Grey Havens

Oct 30 2014, 9:25pm

Post #13 of 24 (4454 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been wondering somewhat about Tom's strange outfit ever since I first read LOTR because, to me at least, it never really "fit in" with Middle Earth and with Tom's life; after all if he never left the forest, where did he get those clothes and boots? It sounds like Tolkien just happened to like the way the doll looked and decided it fit the character, or maybe he did it for his kids. Anyway, nice to know! Smile

__________________

Farewell hope,
and with hope
farewell fear.

John Milton


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Nov 2 2014, 12:45am

Post #14 of 24 (4331 views)
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I thought he could have been an oddment of imagination... [In reply to] Can't Post

To speak about myself for a while, I have found that in my own meagre attempts at writing sometimes there is a bit of left-over creative energy in the tale. It might be a bit of an undeveloped point of plot that has been transformed an infinite number of times, or more likely a part of the story that cannot be traced to any one origin, having become apparent ex nihilo-- springing forth like Athena from the creator's mind. I think Tom Bombadil might just be Tolkien's Athena, and a connexion to the very core of his creativity.

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Plurmo
Rohan

Nov 3 2014, 12:00am

Post #15 of 24 (4327 views)
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"Nothing is evil in the beginning." [In reply to] Can't Post

WinkWarning: Personal interpretations on Bombadil are considered an integral part of the perennial Mauron Insurgency against the learned Tolkien readers. Here follows one, as you asked for.

I think that the original proposition of Eru was the creation a world where evil didn't originally exist but had a space where to develop, because it had a value as a tool for creating a dynamic which could lead to unexpected things (like in the tale of the snowflake, a joint Melkor-Ulmo creation).

Since nothing was evil in the beginning and Eru stresses the requirement of completeness (stay till the end) if the Valar are to enter and inhabit Arda, then either Arda would eventually attain perfection in Good with the Valar as guides and the free will of the Children opening the paths of history, or else be destroyed.

Now, when Melkor enters Arda he has become purely evil. And we know that what Melkor chose to become, eventually he converted into Arda Marred, the Ring of Morgoth. So it is an acceptable idea that a great part of the spiritual self of Melkor became the stain in the World.

But Melkor was a Vala, a perfect being in his conception, that at some point on his solitary journeys in the Void felt that part of this perfection had become a burden on his emerging thoughts. So he cut this burden from his spirit and hid it somewhere in the Void inside a spiritual cocoon made of malice and forgot about it completely.

But Eru, who sees all and is master of his Work, to bind together good and evil in an entwined fate, chose that very place where the burden of Melkor was laid aside to be the tip of the needle where Arda was placed. And when the Ainur came and started their labours they were unaware of it and eventually, at the moment when Melkor decided to destroy Arda, Eru caused the forgotten burden to make the (inverse) path, from a thing of forgetfulness into a spiritual being. Not a living being, like Treebeard, the oldest living being in Middle-earth, but a spirit with a suitable form as he is integral to Nature by Eru's design. That joyful, curious creature, free of shame, free of fear, that jumps through life (while Morgoth limps), and marvels at a beating heart, is Tom Bombadil. A Vala indeed. The best part of the Greatest one.

But as the stain of the World grows, the domain of Bombadil shrinks, like Nature itself. A sign that Morgoth is growing out of his unbounded prison. And so, inevitably there will come a day when Bombadil, the Original Good in Melkor, will either rejoin him, cure him and unmake his Ring (such is the mercy of Eru,) or else be defeated along with Nature, last as he was first, and Evil will be all that is left.

In this interpretation, when Eru made the World, the "cocoon made of malice" became the very meteorite from which parts Eöl made the prototype of what would come to be Turin's Sword. So the idea is that the splinter which will eventually reach the heart of Morgoth was of his own making (as I said below,) being in truth the evil instrument that cut the good in him from himself, his original sin against Eru. That instrument is now the skill of Eru, opening Morgoth's heart so it could become the holy heart of Melkor again.

(Notice that this idea is not at all incompatible with theories that interpret Bombadil from the point of view of the Music of the Ainur, like the beautiful theory proposed by rangerfromthenorth, which he reposted above. It's only a more concrete way of expressing some of the motifs in the Music.)


Cari
Bree

Nov 4 2014, 2:10pm

Post #16 of 24 (4266 views)
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Interesting Theory [In reply to] Can't Post

But if you don't mind my asking, what is the perennial Mauron insurgency? xD


Cillendor
Lorien


Nov 4 2014, 3:52pm

Post #17 of 24 (4262 views)
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My mind is spinning! [In reply to] Can't Post

That was fascinating stuff, but it took me two read-throughs to realize what you were saying. I like it. Wink


Plurmo
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 3:04am

Post #18 of 24 (4249 views)
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The Mauron [In reply to] Can't Post

is a kind of mythical creature (think about a Squonk, for example) which was first alluded to by squire in his epic poem in homage to Tom Bombadil, written ages ago when the world was young (link below.) The elusive Mauron is said to inhabit Tolkien forums where he incessantly volunteers all kinds of theories about who is Tom Bombadil. He always fails because Bombadil is after all an anomaly, but the Mauron is persistent and indeed immortal like an unslayable elf, so we better live with it in harmony, if possible.

Spotting the Mauron is not an easy task, though. You have to already detest him before you even see him, but after the Mauron gets under your skin, all that you see is Mauron here, Mauron there, Mauron everywhere.

I like to join the Mauron in his endeavour, which is something like an insurgency against the Tolkien readers who are already tired of hearing about who Tom Bombadil should be (there is a sort of "eternal september" quality on such attempts, as they see it.)

Anyway, because I like conjectures, especially magical ones I join the Mauron whenever I can. So the Mauron, while an inexterminable pest, is also inspiring to those who do not feel ashamed in producing, well, speculation beyond reasonable levels of sanity. I guess Bombadil himself would be a great Mauron supporter as long as the creature kept away from his domain, or else it would be given to the care of the Barrow-wights, I guess.Smile

Link to Squire's poem. Do not miss it, it is spectacular and illustrates how anomalous Bombadil is and how hopeless are the ones who try to define him:

http://newboards.theonering.net/...threaded;post=568704

If the link does not work for you, try the search button. Search the word mauron on posts by squire.

Thanks Cari for asking about the Mauron which, as you see, while a reference to one of squire's gems in TORn, is also a private joke with a subversive purpose.Angelic


Plurmo
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 3:11am

Post #19 of 24 (4276 views)
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I regret having to make so many jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

in reasoning to expose my ideas, but I do have a limitation in english writting and I have to avoid excessive details. I apologize for that and thank you Cillendor for your persistence and your kindness.

Here follows a bit of justification for the theory (there is a lot more and I won't even start with.)

Melkor was at first the greatest of the Valar, but over time he became Morgoth, evil incarnated, the element that might, in the end, turn Eru against its own creation.

In contrast to Morgoth, Bombadil represents joy of life, self-mastery, the striving for a little garden of faeryland of one's own and some space for spontaneity and curiosity.

There are in fact many aspects in which Bombadil is in clear opposition or even complementarity to Morgoth. That being the reason why it could be argued that Bombadil could represent the seed of Arda Unmarred persisting inside Arda Marred. That seed would seem anomalous because Arda Unmarred is still an ideal inside the mind of Eru, not a realization.

In an abstract sense that could be understood as "the spirit of the Music of the Ainur," as rangerfromthenorth proposes, and that would represent the highest layer of the Mind of Eru that could be perceived from inside Arda. And also, still in an abstract sense, as Tolkien himself, as proposed by Darkstone, where it would be the way Tolkien chose for his creative spirit to be seen from inside the tale.

But while a concrete interpretation of what Bombadil is is actually problematic and it may be after all a vain pursuit, still to find a place for Bombadil among the beings of Arda should be instead one of the most interesting aspects of reading Tolkien and indeed encouraged.

At least for me, this concrete idea I have of what Bombadil might be, imperfect as it is, serves as one of the basis for many of my personal interpretations of all things Middle-earth. And as Tolkien seems to suggest, if he actually chose Bombadil to represent him, he expects a bit of curiosity, a bit of jumping over hills, a bit of absurd to be part of our quest through Middle-earth. That being one of the freedoms he gave us when he said that the book in our hands is not the Word of Eru, but only a rewritten narrative from oral traditions composed in alien languages by people who had very little in common with us.

So we of team Mauron thank you again for your interest and your kind reply.Smile


Cari
Bree

Nov 8 2014, 12:57am

Post #20 of 24 (4221 views)
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The Pursuit [In reply to] Can't Post

The pursuit of attempting to create a concrete theory is very entertaining within itself whether or not anyone ever comes close to what Tolkien had in mind for what Tom Bombadil really is.


Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

Nov 10 2014, 9:00pm

Post #21 of 24 (4228 views)
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I wonder if maybe Tom had a sad past [In reply to] Can't Post

And maybe he once did intervene and this did not urn out that well which might explain his isolationism.


squire
Half-elven


Nov 10 2014, 10:55pm

Post #22 of 24 (4232 views)
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Gandalf does suggest there is a past history. [In reply to] Can't Post

At the Council of Elrond the wizard seems to suggest that Tom at one time had wandered more freely about Middle-earth:
"And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, ..." (LotR II.2, bold by squire)
But I'm not sure we can take such a faint characterization so far as to say Tom had previously been an "interventionist" but was now an "isolationist". Such terms seem too ... strategic ... for Tom. Remember that Tolkien uses the exact same theme -- great powers who were burned by a failed intervention becoming gunshy and isolationist -- in his massive narrative of the Valar's ages-long struggle against the evil of Morgoth. Now that is strategic! And while Tolkien is not at all averse to rehashing themes, I always assume the whole point of Tom is that he just doesn't think like that. As Gandalf puts it, Tom would be a poor guardian of the Ring because he would forget he had it:
"Such things have no hold on his mind" (ibid.)




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd & 4th TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion and NOW the 1st BotR Discussion too! and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 10 2014, 10:58pm

Post #23 of 24 (4208 views)
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Marriage will do that. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Grand Bob
The Shire

Nov 13 2014, 4:57pm

Post #24 of 24 (4277 views)
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My take [In reply to] Can't Post

In my mind, Bombadil is the strangest of all of the characters in LotR. If the question is asked, "Given the opportunity, what LotR character would you like to be?", I would choose to be Tom - happy, carefree, immortal, and living with the woman of his dreams. I can't think of another character in literature that possesses so many desirable and positive qualities. I believe many critics dislike Tom because of these attributes - he has no problems. The chapter stands out from the rest of the good-vs-evil drama inherent in the rest of the story, and in my opinion is a welcome break. What I find more suprising is that this has been written by a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic Oxford Professor of the English language (this is also true of the "Lothlorien" chapter). Along with his pacifist views (despite surviving two World Wars), it also makes it very difficult to stereotype the Professor merely as an academic conservative. It seems as though the Bombadil chapter could just as easily have been written by Jiddu Krishnamurti

Another attribute of this chapter is that it defies any meaningful analysis by critics, and in his letters Tolkien seemed to relish this aspect. I also enjoy the background for this material provided by Christopher Tolkien in his History of Middle-earth series.

 
 

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