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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
the willhem scream
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Bishop
Gondor


Oct 24 2014, 5:02pm

Post #51 of 68 (579 views)
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It's not "Haha" funny (THORIN SPOILER IN POST) [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not "haha" funny in the same way that Peter Jackson eating a carrot is not haha funny. Right? No one sees Peter Jackson and starts laughing out loud. The way that director cameos are not funny, the Wilhelm is also not funny. Also like the cameos, it is an inside joke with the production team, which could be a tradition or a tip of the hat or whatever. It's fairly harmless. You can argue that the vast majority of people don't recognize Jackson either.

SO! Here's a little test to see if we're on the same page here. Imagine in BOTFA Bilbo is standing next to Thorin on his deathbed. He is explaining to Bilbo that he regrets his decisions, and he wishes things had been different. Then the camera cuts to a clear shot of Peter Jackson, dressed as a guard or something. How would you feel about that? Would the notion that most movie going audience didn't recognize him make you feel any differently about his decision to stick his cameo there?


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Oct 24 2014, 5:15pm

Post #52 of 68 (570 views)
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Well I would say the carrot cameo [In reply to] Can't Post

Is supposed to fun and to make you smile, if not outright laugh. But the idea of a cameo during a serious scene is easily tested by TTT and ROTK where that was the case. I don't think I've ever considered them to be funny or to indicate that the scene around them is stupid.
To take your example if Jackson was winking and biting a carrot behind Thorin I would think that was very odd for the scene. If he was part of a crowd of dwarves looking tragic I wouldn't have any issue.


(This post was edited by Spriggan on Oct 24 2014, 5:24pm)


Bishop
Gondor


Oct 24 2014, 5:22pm

Post #53 of 68 (564 views)
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This is the beauty of different viewer experience [In reply to] Can't Post

Just for the record I've found the exchanges on this topic here very interesting and insightful, and it says quite a bit about different viewer experiences with the medium of film.

For the record, if Peter Jackson put an obvious cameo (like carrot man obvious) in the middle of an important death scene, I would absolutely detest it. What were the cameos in TTT and ROTK that were at important dramatic moments in the film?


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Oct 24 2014, 5:36pm

Post #54 of 68 (561 views)
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Well not the same as your example, certainly [In reply to] Can't Post

But they were during serious scenes - Helm's Deep battle and the Corsairs I.e. There was nothing comic taking place.

And ditto on it being interesting on the topic!

Actually, though I'm sure it's very unlikely, you've got me thinking and to be honest as we are grieving for Thorin reaching the end of his road and thinking about things he should have done differently, considering Jackson mourning the end of his ME journey, and no doubt with some regrets, would be quite interesting. I've almost sold myself on the idea!


Bishop
Gondor


Oct 24 2014, 5:46pm

Post #55 of 68 (552 views)
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Boy I couldn't disagree more! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I like to be immersed in films, and a big part of that for me personally is a lack of transparency about how the films are literally made. It's part of the medium. The filmmakers go to great lengths to create a believable world, and likewise hide the "tricks" that go into making them. We're not supposed to believe that we're on a green screen set in wellington, or that the sound was mixed on a computer, or that it's not real sunlight but some studio kit. Great directors like Jackson do whatever it takes to create the illusion of reality within this medium. So when it comes time to pull the curtain back and reveal some part of how the film was made, be it with a cliche sound effect or a filmmaker cameo, they should use restraint.


leonmuse
Rivendell


Oct 24 2014, 5:51pm

Post #56 of 68 (552 views)
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PJ has a cameo in AUJ too. [In reply to] Can't Post

He's one of the fleeing dwarves just before Thorin calls out for Thranduil's aid.


__________________________________________________________
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
But, sad or merry, I must leave it now. Farewell."


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Oct 24 2014, 6:08pm

Post #57 of 68 (546 views)
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For me, it's experiencing films on different levels. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm always thinking about aspects of the film whilst enjoying the story - I'll be thinking about how themes are shaping up and interplaying, about interesting shots, powerful music, how the strands are intercut, how I'm feeling and responding, whilst also being immersed. I don't think it's one or the other, and indeed a film which doesn't give me anything to think about as above is rarely one I enjoy!


Faleel
Rohan


Oct 24 2014, 6:36pm

Post #58 of 68 (535 views)
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The [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ's kids at Helms Deep and Minas Tirith.


Noria
Gondor

Oct 24 2014, 8:29pm

Post #59 of 68 (526 views)
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Something wrong with me (or not) then too. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't recognize this famous screen anyway and have no intention of learning to.

But then I really avoid looking for things to obsessively dislike about any book, movie, or television series. That more than anything else ruins the experience for me.


Bishop
Gondor


Oct 24 2014, 11:22pm

Post #60 of 68 (492 views)
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huh? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I don't recognize this famous screen anyway and have no intention of learning to.


You don't have "learn" to recognize it. It is a famous sound effect that has been used for over 60 years in film, television, and video games. Those who act like it's something no one should know or care about do not understand that it has a role in film history and in sound design.


Quote
But then I really avoid looking for things to obsessively dislike about any book, movie, or television series. That more than anything else ruins the experience for me.


To say that people are obsessively looking for it is silly. It's placed there to be recognized by the filmmakers, not because it's the best scream to use. I'll pose a similar question to you. What would you think about a really overt cameo from Peter Jackson during an important death of a character? What if he broke the fourth wall and looked at the camera like carrot man?



Faleel
Rohan


Oct 24 2014, 11:31pm

Post #61 of 68 (491 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it would be wise to end this argument, its really going nowhere.

I do think the scream is bad BTW.


Bishop
Gondor


Oct 24 2014, 11:54pm

Post #62 of 68 (478 views)
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Yeah, you're probably right. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


jtarkey
Rohan


Oct 25 2014, 10:22am

Post #63 of 68 (457 views)
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I think it would be wise... [In reply to] Can't Post

To admit that Jackson has made some questionable choices in this trilogy.

There's a reason these films aren't as good as LoTR. It's not due to the book, or the story. It's due to execution.

Lucas syndrome is what has happened here.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Oct 25 2014, 10:54am

Post #64 of 68 (439 views)
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I do not think anyone ever doubted [In reply to] Can't Post

that Jackson made some questionable choices in this trilogy and in the LOTR trilogy.I do not remember anyone stating something like that.What i know for sure though,is that Lucas comparisons mostly come from the most notorious trolls all over the internet.Not to say you are one of them of courseWinkI always found it a very cheap and unsustained argument when it comes to these movie.

As far as the execution and the story is concerned,i have answered to you some weeks ago and i will not bother to do it againSmile

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"

(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Oct 25 2014, 10:58am)


Noria
Gondor

Oct 25 2014, 1:22pm

Post #65 of 68 (437 views)
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The scream [In reply to] Can't Post

My point was that I don’t recognize the scream, or at least it doesn't jump out at me the way it does for others. For me a scream is just a scream and I intend to maintain my blissful ignorance. So whatever the filmmakers may be intending by placing this trope in their movies flies right by me.

I realize that the scream annoys others to varying degrees; different things bother different people. I just prefer not to focus on what are to me minor things that I can’t change and might diminish my enjoyment if I worry about them overmuch.

I should have kept my thoughts about fans obsessing over small things to myself and I apologize.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 25 2014, 5:27pm

Post #66 of 68 (429 views)
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For what it is worth [In reply to] Can't Post

You spoke for me, and I was glad you spoke up. I think the scream works perfectly well in that context, there is nothing at all humorous about it, and the only way that someone would think it was either inappropriate or humorous is if one convinces oneself that it is.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 5 2014, 7:15pm

Post #67 of 68 (372 views)
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That TORn! [In reply to] Can't Post

they only care about themselves! Don't care about us users at all!


Elessar
Valinor


Nov 5 2014, 8:41pm

Post #68 of 68 (376 views)
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I'm with ya [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen the EE and I don't even notice it to be honest. At least not as something distracting as I find his scream fitting for the situation.


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