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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 8:47pm
Post #1 of 3
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Do we know anything about how the dwarves left in Laketown get back to the group in Erebor? A thought struck me that if they remained with Bard (and the Elves?) when Thorin refuses to share the gold, they might be held as hostages.
This could work rather well in terms of showing Thorin's greed/ dragon sickness that he is unwilling to part with the gold even for his own nephews and cement dissent within the company. It also lends an additional note to Bilbo's recognition that only the Arkenstone might sway Thorin.
Any views on likelihood or utility or, if this was an additional Jacksonian "reversal", how it might play out?
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Arveldis
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 9:05pm
Post #2 of 3
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I think I even mentioned it in a post several weeks ago. At the time, I thought it was pretty far-fetched, but it could actually happen. My guess was that they might be taken hostage after Smaug attacked because the people of Lake-town wanted revenge (and rightly so) and wanted to take it out on someone, even people who had nothing to do with the incident; not because of Thorin's refusal. Your way could work too, though.
My reasoning was: Bard's already demonstrated that he's pretty annoyed with Dwarves and only grudgingly took the four in to his home. I imagine that he'd be even more angry with the Dwarves after the attack by Smaug. He probably thinks that the Dwarves put Smaug on his course to Lake-town. After all, why else would Smaug have a need to go to Lake-town? Unless Fili (I'm assuming it would be him since he's the heir to the throne) is really skilled with negotiating, it's entirely possible that they could be taken hostage.
It would be a good portrayal of just how far gone Thorin is, and, like you said, would give Bilbo extra reason to withhold the Arkenstone.
That said, I'm not sure it will happen. The actors have mentioned that they filmed the four Dwarves going back to Erebor, and it sounds like they were alone in that shot. There's also the clip in the trailer where the four enter Erebor. Plus, Kili's right next to Thorin when he delivers his "I will have war!" line.
Who knows, though. With PJ, anything could happen.
(This post was edited by Arveldis on Oct 23 2014, 9:06pm)
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Cirashala
Valinor
Oct 23 2014, 11:52pm
Post #3 of 3
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but like someone said below, they're already there when war is declared. However, I do see them running into Erebor in the trailer. Why would they suddenly run (especially if Kili's leg is still healing? Though maybe it's healed by that point)?
Then I got the thought- what if the angry mob of the men of Laketown want to do so (or maybe even lynch the dwarves?), but Bard, though pissed, doesn't want to play dirty like that- it would make him no better of a leader than the Master, who ruled by force and intimidation and was everything Bard fought against. IF the master survives, he may be all for that, but in a dramatic reversal of the Thorin/Bard confrontation in DOS, the people side with Bard instead? Showing the shift in leadership amongst the people of the lake?
Then perhaps Fili could try to negotiate (I will be a VERY surprised lady if he doesn't think Thorin's dead and he's the king until they find the company alive in the mountain!), and Bard will give them an ultimatum- KEEP THORIN'S PROMISE.
Fili promises to do so, and Bard releases them to both avoid harm to them by the people of Laketown and also to go see if their kin is still alive. They rejoin the group, (and are running into Erebor out of fear that Bard or the Laketowners will change their minds), and are relieved to find that Thorin is alive, then suddenly get very, very worried that he's definitely not himself. Fili reminds him of his promise, and he shoves it in Fili's face (I will not part with a single coin! a la Smaug).
That would also put a great deal of tension (more than there already is, because Kili was basically at this point (known to Fili, though not Thorin) left behind to die. Fili's word to Bard is at risk of being unkept, which would not only be a dishonorable thing for Thorin (as it was originally promised by him) but also a HUGE honor blow against Fili- he gave Bard his word, and Thorin is making him break it in a very dishonorable way. I imagine dwarves value honor very highly, so this would likely make Fili even angrier.
I think the above is very possible, and would provide a great deal of drama and really show how far gone Thorin is getting. Plus, given the general mindset of Laketown at that point (lost homes, family, all possessions on the cusp of winter) emotions are running very high. And poverty stricken, mostly uneducated people in such a plight would no doubt react in such a way to those whom could be blamed. That's a prime recipe for a lynch mob, and I think it will be Bard's wisdom, humanity, and newfound leadership status amongst his people that would prevent a very bad outcome to the four dwarves that remained behind in Laketown.
(This post was edited by Cirashala on Oct 23 2014, 11:55pm)
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