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Does the EE Improve how you view DOS? And other rumblings...

Dcole4
Rohan

Oct 23 2014, 6:06pm

Post #1 of 10 (1443 views)
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Does the EE Improve how you view DOS? And other rumblings... Can't Post

I had the incredible good fortune of getting to see DOS last year a few weeks before the release. I am similarly fortunate this year and get to see BOTFA next month. With that said, I was incredibly disappointed with the film on the first viewing. I had issues with some of the aesthetics (some of the CGI was spotty) and some of the added side-treks (Morgul poison? Again?), but I've viewed the film several times since and it's grown on me quite a bit. Watching the extended cut, I feel like the added scenes help bring the pace down to a closer level to that of AUJ, which I greatly enjoyed, but seeing the film "anew" so to speak made me re-evaluate the main failure of the film: a through-line.

I feel like the main issue with DOS, unlike the other films, is that it lacks a cohesive through-line throughout the film to tie all the elements together. It let it's many moving pieces get away from it. What was so beautiful about AUJ is that even with the side-steps, it was always Bilbo's story, and more specifically his acceptance into the company. It was about his journey to accepting the adventure and being accepted by Thorin as one of the ranks. The issue with DOS is that it lacks this emotional core. It chugs along (in a much better fashion I find with the EE), but it's essentially just a long chase that gets from point A, Beorn's house, to point B, Erebor.

Why is this? I have a feeling that this film suffered the most from the split to 3 films. The big emotional scene between Bilbo and Thorin was originally meant to go after the Barrel Sequence, so with the re-editing, many of these scenes lack the extra flavor of having an emotional undertone. They don't progress the relationship between Bilbo or Thorin because we've already reached that point in AUJ. On top of that the second half of the film is composed of the 1st act of what would have been "There and Back Again." So they combined two portions of two separate movies to form DOS, only they weren't necessarily compatible. There was no "character journey." I love the film and enjoy it greatly, but I can't help but feel that it would have been better served by creating a much clearer character arc for Bilbo in this film. BOTFA will no doubt not fall under the same failing, given the material it covers, but it's a shame that the switch to 3 films neutered the story arc of this leg of the journey.

The added Thrain scenes are great, and I feel like the pace in the beginning is greatly improved. I just feel like the movie is a few steps away from having a full arc. They ALMOST get there with Thorin, especially with the Thrain storyline re-instated. But watching the whole 3 hour film with side treks with Tauriel and Bard and the Master and the High Fells, it kind of escapes the bounds of a clear story and runs on too many tangents. Thoughts?


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Oct 23 2014, 6:07pm

Post #2 of 10 (836 views)
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my first thought is [In reply to] Can't Post

why you´re able to see the movie next month ?! Cool


(This post was edited by dernwyn on Oct 23 2014, 7:34pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Oct 23 2014, 7:42pm

Post #3 of 10 (696 views)
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For me, DoS felt like moving from one situation to another to another... [In reply to] Can't Post

It was just moment after moment, if you know what I mean? Just a list of action set-pieces only giving repose to introduce new characters (Thranduil and Bard) and then move quickly along again with not much in between.

Whereas the EE we have these moments, then we stay in the moment for a bit before moving on. So you get time to breathe and while doing so we are able to connect more with the characters - particularly with Beorn.

AUJ did this a lot better (although it over-rested in some areas, which slowed it down). I think DoS EE comes pretty close to nailing the pace. FotR (theatrical) is a good example of a film that gets the pace perfectly balanced - The Extended FotR is a better film, but the pacing is admittedly too slow.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Oct 23 2014, 8:25pm

Post #4 of 10 (661 views)
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I just finished [In reply to] Can't Post

watching the Extended Edition of DOS for a second time in a 1080p blu-ray hd.

First of all,this EE is imo,right now(that might change of course),the second best EE of Middle Earth films after the FOTR one.The extended scenes of the first half improved the pace upon the theatrical edition and managed to transform the movie into a less hasty but undoubtedly a more complete and coherent story compared to the at time exhausting pace of AUJ.

It succeeded in establishing a character we mostly met in the TE,Beorn,but fleshed out greatly in the EE.A fleshing that will pay off in the third movie of this trilogy.

The realisation of Mirkwood forest was already good in the TE but now we,as viewers,were more able to grasp the "powers" and perils of this forest and how they affected our beloved group.A really nice set up for the Spider's fight shortly after.

The plight of the Laketowners and their thirst for something that would potentially get them out of their current situation became even more obvious as well as the corrupted government under which they live in.I now care more of them when the absolute destruction comes after them in the third movie.Now,i would like to point out that DOS as a movie, serves that purpose mainly.It is a GREAT set up for the Battle of the Five Armies.A necessary show off for all the characters whose emotional arcs will be defined and concluded in the last movie.

Thrain's backstory:All i can say about this completely new and fantastic sequence is that it belongs to one of my favourites along with the Boromir/Faramir/Denethor flashback of the TTTEE.From the fantastic performances from Antony Sher and Ian to the emotional gravity that gives to the leader of our company,Thorin Oakenshield.

I agree with you Dcole about this movie not having a full arc.But in my opinion that cannot be addressed to the lack of Bilbo's arc but the lack of a proper ending.Everything that ends on such a cliffhanger cannot be conidered complete by any means.Imagine if for example you had the resolution of Dol Guldur plot or even the demise of Smaug.Would you say still state and support the same thing?I am not so sure to be honestWink

All in all,i think we have to realise that Desolation of Smaug is the ideal imo setup for the third movie and once it's finally released,it is imperative to watch them one by one.They are really ONE movie split in two parts.

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"


Dcole4
Rohan

Oct 23 2014, 8:33pm

Post #5 of 10 (587 views)
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True [In reply to] Can't Post

What's missing is the emotional punch or consequence of everything in the film. AUJ had the beautiful moment where Bilbo has his speech and when Thorin embraces him. DOS really should have followed the TTT line of ending. It had more story threads and more room for disaster but it managed to tie it together with Sam's speech. DOS needed a moment that served the same function. There's the small scene where they find all the corpses of the dwarves at the west gate. I feel like that was a scene that could have been milked more. While Thorin's speech was nice, I feel like this was the chance to have the company really think "that's it, it's over" and maybe have Bilbo remind them why he followed them so far, and how much they stand to take back of their home. DOS is a pilgrim story. A story about 13 dwarves traveling through weird foreign lands, against better wisdom and logic, to reclaim a part of their heritage. I just feel like Thorin and especially Bilbo could have had much richer arcs than what was provided, especially given the deep themes being explored.

I think including the death of Smaug in DOS was a tricky call on their part since it informs much of the plot of BOTFA. I think it honestly undermines DOS not having it as the conclusion, but I think it'll make BOTFA much more powerful. DOS is really a movie that doesn't mean anything until you've had that scene because it gives significance to the three hours of DOS.


(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Oct 23 2014, 8:37pm)


Spriggan
Tol Eressea

Oct 23 2014, 10:06pm

Post #6 of 10 (556 views)
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Almost the inverse for me [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoyed DOS substantially more than AUJ, as I enjoyed TTT somewhat more than FOTR, because I think both middle films have more interesting ideas and themes. I think possibly where you see a lack of focus in DOS, I see an interesting tapestry.

Any moves to make it more like AUJ would be steps in the wrong direction for me, but I don't particularly feel the EE does that (with the possible exception of the first Beorn addition). I think the additional scenes are interesting, but don't add an awful lot of new themes beyond those in the TE.


leonmuse
Rivendell


Oct 23 2014, 10:33pm

Post #7 of 10 (521 views)
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It does! [In reply to] Can't Post

It certainly improves it a lot for me!

I'll repeat what I said on another thread:

I loved this restored scenes! Especially the Thrain ones.

Now I really want Gandalf to tell Thorin his father loves him :'(

As a side note, it's nice that the filmmakers decided to portray a Gandalf that actually cares about Thorin and his family, unlike the one from the book, whose sole and real intention was to destroy Smaug so Sauron couldn't side with him. (with all due respect Professor Tolkien).

Gandalf:
"Thrain, Son of Thror, my old friend (Ian McKellen almost crying)"

Awesome!


__________________________________________________________
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
But, sad or merry, I must leave it now. Farewell."


shadowdog
Rohan

Oct 23 2014, 10:41pm

Post #8 of 10 (487 views)
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Haven't seen [In reply to] Can't Post

it yet; but the EEs are far better than the TEs on all the rest of the movies. So I expect I will.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Oct 24 2014, 5:24am

Post #9 of 10 (372 views)
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This! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Spriggan" wrote: I enjoyed DOS substantially more than AUJ, as I enjoyed TTT somewhat more than FOTR, because I think both middle films have more interesting ideas and themes.

Fully agree.Btw,TTT is my favourite Middle Earth movie so far.

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"

(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Oct 24 2014, 5:25am)


BlackFox
Half-elven


Oct 24 2014, 11:34am

Post #10 of 10 (336 views)
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It does [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I thoroughly enjoyed the TE, I had the most gripes with it out of all of Jackson's Middle-earth films. And while I still retain majority of them, my overall opinion of the movie definitely improved after seeing the EE, as the EE feels much more wholesome, balanced and "in line" with AUJ than the TE.



(This post was edited by BlackFox on Oct 24 2014, 11:35am)

 
 

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