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haarp
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 6:03pm
Post #1 of 68
(1515 views)
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the willhem scream
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at the end of Thrain's last appearance on the film, it is a serious moment between him and Gandalf, and yet that Willhem scream takes away the seriousness of it and almost makes it comical.
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haarp
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 6:11pm
Post #3 of 68
(878 views)
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why isn't this like a normal forum where the active threads stay on the 1st page? Who's going to trawl through endless pages to find active threads? Inefficient.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 6:14pm
Post #5 of 68
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Our destiny lies above us.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 6:15pm
Post #6 of 68
(804 views)
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That's my main gripe with tORn as well //
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Faleel
Rohan
Oct 23 2014, 6:20pm
Post #7 of 68
(820 views)
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There is a way to alleviate that.
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There is a button that says "sort threads by: (Creation)", click "(creation)" and it will switch to "(Activity)"
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Elutherian
Rohan
Oct 23 2014, 7:30pm
Post #8 of 68
(812 views)
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Honestly, I didn't think the scream was that bad...
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.... And really, only people who are familiar with the Wilhelm Scream are going to notice.
My biggest problem with the film is still Ninja Bombur. That's hard to dismiss.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 7:47pm
Post #9 of 68
(765 views)
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Watched it on Youtube and well... it only really seems odd, if you know that particular scream. Which most do, sadly, me included. 
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Bishop
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 8:16pm
Post #10 of 68
(745 views)
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First off, as other posters have mentioned, the Wilhelm is used TWICE in the EE. Secondly, as someone familiar with audio mixing the use of Wilhelm in films today has extended beyond an inside joke and into annoyingly obligatory-use territory. It's probably time to retire it. But more than that, the Wilhelm would never, EVER be taken seriously as a scream to be used in the death of a main character and in such a horrifying fashion. It was either a bad joke, a mistake, or someone was totally and utterly asleep at the wheel. Or maybe they saw this, and took it to heart.
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leonmuse
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 8:18pm
Post #11 of 68
(732 views)
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Can you please give me the link for this clip? Or pm me? I've been looking for it over and over with no luck. thanks!
__________________________________________________________
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
But, sad or merry, I must leave it now. Farewell."
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Oct 23 2014, 8:27pm
Post #12 of 68
(733 views)
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Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssYpJn5YGJc
But be careful.. its not just the end with the scream.. its half of the whole scene!
(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Oct 23 2014, 8:27pm)
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 8:27pm
Post #13 of 68
(704 views)
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it until someone pointed it out here.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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leonmuse
Rivendell
Oct 23 2014, 9:38pm
Post #14 of 68
(645 views)
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I saw it and yeah, bad joke but it doesn't ruin the climax!
It's too brief to ruin anything, but it comes close.
I loved this restored scene!
Now I really want Gandalf to tell Thorin his father loves him :'(
As a side note, it's nice that the filmmakers decided to portray a Gandalf that actually cares about Thorin and his family, unlike the one from the book, whose sole and real intention was to destroy Smaug so Sauron couldn't side with him. (with all due respect Professor Tolkien).
Gandalf:
"Thrain, Son of Thror, my old friend (Ian McKellen almost crying)"
Awesome!
__________________________________________________________
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
But, sad or merry, I must leave it now. Farewell."
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Altaira
Superuser
Oct 23 2014, 10:26pm
Post #15 of 68
(615 views)
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it's fine to bring up topics again
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...if there are older threads on older pages.
It keeps the conversation fresh. It also keeps threads from getting 80 pages long, where people don't bother to read the first 79 pages, and repeat things anyway!
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Bishop
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 10:57pm
Post #16 of 68
(609 views)
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That's the mystery. Was it meant to be funny, like a bad joke? Or did Jackson believe that the Wilhelm scream was the best, most effective and dramatic scream (even above the actor's own scream which is present) for that moment? It's a decision that is odd enough that it almost demands an answer from the production team.
Maybe it's covered in the extras? I did notice that Jackson planned and shot a second cameo that was about 5000% weirder than his carrot man. He pops his head out of a basket with a pipe in his mouth and starts making bird noises. So who knows what he thinks might be funny or not? :)
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 11:03pm
Post #17 of 68
(597 views)
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I don't think it was supposed to be funny for the audience, or indeed was funny to me, on any of the other occasions it has been used in LOTR / TH films. The same is presumably true in any of the other adventure films where it has been used.
I assume this not least because there is nothing inherently amusing about the sound effect itself, so unless a member of the audience happens to have a particular contextual perspective, I can't see that it could create amusement.
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Bishop
Gondor
Oct 23 2014, 11:41pm
Post #18 of 68
(573 views)
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But if it's not supposed to be funny, then the only other reasons I can imagine are 1) He thought it was actually an appropriate scream, or 2) It was a mistake that made it to the release. Or 3) he simply didn't know. The Wilhelm is supposed to be a wink and a nod for people listening for it, and it certainly isn't some subtle inside joke anymore; it's ubiquitous. But it has no place during such an emotional and important moment, IMO.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 23 2014, 11:54pm
Post #19 of 68
(570 views)
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I didn't recognise it myself and I would assume a majority of the audience wouldn't either. But then again I'm not sure that I fully undertaken why it is funny - it seems more like a tradition than anything inherently amusing (like 555 telephone numbers)
Perhaps it is a result of YouTube compilation type videos, where if you hear the same sound effect repeatedly it becomes funny? But maybe I'm just missing the joke somehow?
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Bishop
Gondor
Oct 24 2014, 12:17am
Post #20 of 68
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The Wilhelm scream has become a cinematic sound cliche, and by 2011 had been used in many instances, including more than 225 movies, television shows and video games (and video game advertisements). [7] Some directors, most notably George Lucas ( Star Wars original trilogy and prequel trilogy movies), Quentin Tarantino, and Peter Jackson[7] (in two of the Lord of the Rings movies and also The Hobbit) include it in almost every one of their productions.
This also doesn't cover dozens of uses in the last 3 years. So perhaps not exactly ubiquitous, but light years from an innocuous and little known inside joke. The double use of it in the DOS EE, including for an important dramatic moment, is overtly weird.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 24 2014, 12:29am
Post #21 of 68
(552 views)
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But that doesn't mean recognised by a majority. If you don't know about it you are unlikely to spot it yourself, I should think. But, as I say, I'm not sure I get it. It's used in lots of films as you say, but it clearly isn't supposed to make the audience laugh in many of these instances.
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Bishop
Gondor
Oct 24 2014, 12:39am
Post #22 of 68
(547 views)
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I guess that's my point. Who is it meant for? If most people don't get it, then it's there just to be a funny inside thing for the production team. Fine. But why do that on such an important scene? Why even risk the trouble? Was the wink wink more important to the audio engineers than the experience people would have that recognize it? There are certainly plenty of people talking about it, and not as a good thing.
I mean, why not just add it to most deaths? Then it would be the ultimate inside joke extended edition. I figure if the W screams were spread out by about 10 minutes like they are on the DOS EE then they could pack in about 30 of them into BOTFA and no one would be the wiser. Most people wouldn't even know the difference.
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 24 2014, 12:48am
Post #23 of 68
(543 views)
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I know I have heard it described as an "in-joke" but that is also just used of quirks or customs within closed groups. I'm not trying to be obtuse when I say I'm just not sure what is funny about it, any more than lots of films using 555 as the code for fake telephone numbers.
I'm no expert but if lots of people use it without intending it to be funny, and it's not obviously funny in itself (ie the sound doesn't contain chicken noises, or whoopee cushions or somesuch!) then what makes us think it is humorous at all? Is it more of a custom or tradition, which isn't supposed to be funny to anyone really?
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Bishop
Gondor
Oct 24 2014, 12:59am
Post #24 of 68
(545 views)
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...in an easter egg kind of funny. Like Peter Jackson with a Carrot (not inherently funny). Or showing two people having sex in the Marauder map in Harry Potter. I would imagine it's funny to anyone who places the sound (the mixer/engineer), or anyone who knows the sound and recognizes it (industry savvy audience). It's inside baseball stuff, and not meant to be inherently funny, like a cartoon BOINK! Now that said, I don't understand how its use in the EE is good for anyone; makes the sound team look sloppy and I'm quite sure the audience member who would recognize the sound doesn't need it placed over such an important emotional beats.
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Faleel
Rohan
Oct 24 2014, 1:07am
Post #25 of 68
(541 views)
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it doesn't really fit in the soundworld of the scene.
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why ? because its in fact, a forum
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