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tripecac
Rivendell
Oct 21 2014, 12:43am
Post #1 of 31
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Smaug Appendices - So... how are they???
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For those of you who have been able to check out the appendices for the DoS EE appendices, I am wondering how are they, relative to the appendices for An Unexpected Journey?
Are they fun? Funny? Exciting? Are they starting to get repetitive (like some people say the Return of the King appendices eventually became)? Do they reuse material that we've seen before (e.g., on the theatrical special features)?
(I've been a little concerned, since it feels like there is overall "less to say" in the pre-EE special features for DoS vs those for AUJ. AUJ was introducing a new story, new cast, new technology... whereas DoS is just a "middle chapter". Of course, we had the same issue with The Two Towers, but TTT had the advantage of introducing Gollum, which was an awesome accomplishment, whereas Smaug, while cool, doesn't have the same novelty.)
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Joe20
Lorien
Oct 21 2014, 1:32am
Post #2 of 31
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I've only watched a couple so far
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but what stands out is the absolute disorganisation around the Smaug vs Dwarves scene. Its really, to be honest, disappointing. Disappointing in regards to how the three film split effected everything. This was probably my least favourite element of DOS. (Though I didn't really like much of the movie at all)
Jackson confesses to how, with just a 2 months before the film had to be completed he was shooting the actors on the green screen without any plan whatsoever. He was literally telling people to just react. He didn't know what would be in the shot, where it would fit in or if it would fit in.
He says he was just making it up as he went along, while pretending to appear as if he had any idea of what he was doing.
(This post was edited by Joe20 on Oct 21 2014, 1:33am)
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Barrel_Rider
The Shire
Oct 21 2014, 1:36am
Post #3 of 31
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Chase scene involving Smaug and the Dwarves was only added in because of the Trilogy decision?
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Joe20
Lorien
Oct 21 2014, 1:37am
Post #4 of 31
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They even talk about how as they were filming it they didn't know how it was going to end. And one night Phillipa woke up with the idea to use the forges. And Alan Lee came up with the idea for the statue during the filming.
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Barrel_Rider
The Shire
Oct 21 2014, 1:40am
Post #5 of 31
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For it being a last minute decision, it didn't turn out that bad (though I'm not a huge fan of it). I just hope the rest of the movie, they had better planning for it.
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Merovech
Bree
Oct 21 2014, 2:23am
Post #6 of 31
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That explains why the scene felt so poorly planned and executed in the film.
Throughout DoS my feelings swayed from mostly positive to somewhat negative, but that whole chase sequence was so over-the-top insane that I felt like walking out.
I really don't believe that whatever narrative arc closure or character arc endings they think they got out of it were worth this awful sequence. Had they kept Thrain in the TE, it wouldn't have been necessary at all, I think. All in all a very poor show, made possible by a seemingly neverending budget and over-reliance on the possibilities of CGI. I can't believe none of the producers stepped up and said 'you guys, this is so dumb, we shouldn't do this'.
(This post was edited by Merovech on Oct 21 2014, 2:25am)
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DjU
Lorien
Oct 21 2014, 2:52am
Post #7 of 31
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I'm not entirely sure how keeping Thrain and Dol Guldur sub-plot in the TE would somehow obviate the need for some closure at Erebor? The only thing that would have spared the need for the extra Dwarf Forge scene would have been if they had just gone straight to the Lake-town attack, but PJ clearly had plans for that to be the opening of the 3rd movie.
As soon the decision was made to put that in film 3 it opens a hole at the end of film 2 - you've spent 2 hours building up to and waking up a dragon and then ....what. That's why it exists.
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StarGodziller
Bree
Oct 21 2014, 2:54am
Post #8 of 31
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..In the commentaries and appendices about the whole Bolg thing? I'm still curious as to why PJ thought it was a good idea to replace Conan Stevens' grotesque physical performance with CGI Lawrence Makoare. Is there any footage of the original Bolg in action?
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Lindele
Gondor
Oct 21 2014, 3:25am
Post #9 of 31
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Was playing the original Azog, that's in the AUJ appendices
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Joe20
Lorien
Oct 21 2014, 3:35am
Post #10 of 31
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No commentary with the itunes release again this year it seems.
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So far all I've seen is them talking about Bolg is in the Laketown section when they talk about Legolas vs. Bolg. Nothing mentioned about the choice to use CGI.
But there is still lots of other things for me to get through, so they may at some point
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Spriggan
Tol Eressea
Oct 21 2014, 8:09am
Post #11 of 31
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I don't think we can see a film as simply being X minutes of screen time to fill!
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Hedrigall
Registered User
Oct 21 2014, 8:53am
Post #12 of 31
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Appendices contents and running times?
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Around this time last year someone really nicely posted a list of all the chapters of the appendices for AUJ, and the running time of each. It looked like this:
Part 7.
Play All: 4:31:27
Opening: 2:43
1. The Journey Back to Middle Earth: 48:21
2. Riddles In The Dark: 17:01
3. An Unexpected Party: 25:30
4. Roast Mutton: 17:13
5. Bastion Of The Greenwood: 10:43
6. A Short Rest 29:14
7. Over Hill: 13:41
8. Under Hill: 19:17
9. Out of the Frying Pan: 16:10
10. Return To Hobbiton: 18:37
11. The Epic Of Scene 88: 8:29
12. The Battle Of Moria: 10:59
13. Edge Of Wilderland: 22:38
14. Home is Behind, The World Ahead: 22:38
15. Credits: 3:05
Part 8
Play All: 4:45:38
The Company Of Thorin: 1:02:42
Mr Baggins The fourteenth member: 16:12
Durin's Folk Creating The Dwarves: 57:26
The People And Denizens Of Middle Earth: 58:19
Realms Of The Third Age: 59:03
The Songs Of The Hobbit: 32:32
Credits: 3:22
Could someone do the same for this one, if it's not too much trouble? Many thanks in advance :)
(This post was edited by Hedrigall on Oct 21 2014, 8:54am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Oct 21 2014, 9:05am
Post #13 of 31
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That has been published quite some time ago.
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For example here  :
http://www.filmdivider.com/...-have-been-revealed/
The Appendices Part 9: In To The Wilderland
Into The Wilderland: The Chronicles Of The Hobbit - Part 2
•Opening (3:00)
•A Warm Welcome - Lake-Town - February 2012 (29:50)
•Business Of The State - The Master's Chambers - August 2011 (15:00)
•Shelter On The Long Lake - Bard's House - September 2011 (20:00)
•In The Halls Of The ElvenKing - The Woodland Realm - September 2011 (29:50)
•Flies And Spiders - Mirkwood Forest - Spetember-October 2011 (29:50)
•Queer Lodgings - Beorn's House - November 2011/March 2012 (27:00)
•On The Doorstep - The Lonely Mountain - February 2012 (18:00)
•Inside Information - Smaug's Lair - March 2012 (26:00)
•Down The Swift Dark Stream... The Forest River - December 2011 (18:00)
•Barrels Out Of Bond - The Elven Sluice - May-June 2012 (29:50)
•A Chance Meeting - Bree - May 2013 (20:00)
•Erebor Rekindled - The Dwarf-Forges - July 2013 (29:50)
•... Into The Fire (4:00)
•Credits (4:00)
The Appendices, Part 10: The Journey To Erebor
Summoning Smaug: Last Of The Fire-Drakes (75:00)
•The Last And First Dragon (25:00)
•Conversations with Smaug Summoning (25:00)
•Into The Dragon's Lair (25:00)
The Peoples And Denziens Of Middle-earth (62:00)
•Beorn: The Shape-shifter (20:00)
•The Spawn of Ungoliant (15:00)
•The Men Of Lake-town (27:00)
Realms Of The Third Age: From Beorn's House To Lake-town (90:00)
•Beorn's House (26:00)
•Mirkwood Forest (15:00)
•The Woodland Realm (20:00)
•Lake-town (29:50)
The Music Of The Hobbit (60:00)
•Overture: Music Of The Wilderland (20:00)
•1st Movement: The World Of Men (22:00)
•2nd Movement: In The Halls Of Erebor (18:00)
•Credits (4:00)
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 21 2014, 9:07am)
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Hedrigall
Registered User
Oct 21 2014, 9:08am
Post #14 of 31
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Re: That has been published quite some time ago.
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Amazing, thank you!
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 21 2014, 9:11am
Post #15 of 31
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Yes... That's often how the best ideas come...
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Not all good ideas have to come through hard, meticulously planned in advance mental processes.  Most scientific inventions came to their inventors as dreams or intuitions/daydreams while their mind was actually inactive, vacant: like while they were on a bus or something!... That's how real geniuses work... The organizational part comes after, as needed.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 21 2014, 9:35am
Post #16 of 31
(774 views)
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The Dwarves too were improvizing,
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weren't they?... For me that whole scene in the film showed exactly what was happening in them, and I loved it from beginning to end! At least we could see them in action in their own home, and doing their best to use their Dwarvish technical skills and machines to destroy Smaug - which for me was an absolute MUST.
I simply hated it in the book when the Dwarves, Thorin included, are said to just cower in their tunnel, afraid of doing anything against Smaug. I lost all respect for them at that point, and was quite angry at JRRT for having described them in such a way then, and still made them suddenly act again like real warriors in the big Battle of the Five Armies later.
It would have been total consternation not only in me, but I think also in the general audience, to see the Dwarves behave with Smaug in such a cowardly and in that case, yes, dumb manner as in the book!... 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Oct 21 2014, 9:39am)
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boldog
Rohan
Oct 21 2014, 9:46am
Post #17 of 31
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wait is there no behind the scenes on bolg!?
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I thought they would dedicate some time to explain a bit about him in the appendices! I being boldog was looking forward to that. They did it for azog so why not bolg?
I believe that Azog and Bolg are possibly the only two orcs who may be an exception to the typical evil nature of an orc. Azog had brought up his son, well enough that he actually acknowledges him as his own son. That is a first for any orc. And Bolg sets out to march upon Erebor in vengeance of his fathers death. How many orcs will Try and avenge another dead orc? Most will just forget about the dead one. This gives me hope that Orcs, have some traits of good in them, even if it is small aspects.
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Arvida
The Shire
Oct 21 2014, 11:21am
Post #18 of 31
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I really hope they go into as much depth into the casting/training process for Lee Pace, Luke Evans, etc as they did with everyone in the AUJ extras. The titles/times make me a little worried... >_<
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Kendalf
Rohan
Oct 21 2014, 12:11pm
Post #19 of 31
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What Jackson wants, Jackson gets...
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That explains why the scene felt so poorly planned and executed in the film...that whole chase sequence was so over-the-top insane that I felt like walking out...I can't believe none of the producers stepped up and said 'you guys, this is so dumb, we shouldn't do this'.
Yes, I've often lamented that fact, too, but it seems that Jackson, in too many people's eyes, was infallible. He'd made so much money and won so many awards a decade previously that no-one felt they had the right to challenge his decisions no matter how puerile, outlandish or inappropriate they were.
It was the same watching the Unexpected Journey documentaries and commentaries. I lost count of the number of time crew members screwed their face up in a "Really?!" style and / or Jackson chuckled something along the lines of "I just thought it would be cool to..."
"I have walked there sometimes, beyond the forest and up into the night. I have seen the world fall away and the white light of forever fill the air."
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DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 21 2014, 1:08pm
Post #20 of 31
(629 views)
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Just skimming down the list on my screen, most are off by a couple of minutes.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Oct 21 2014, 1:09pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Oct 21 2014, 1:10pm
Post #21 of 31
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Just saw that they are different.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 21 2014, 1:24pm
Post #22 of 31
(608 views)
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No. Both lists appear wrong to me.
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But the list in the link is closer.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Oct 21 2014, 1:25pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Oct 21 2014, 1:26pm
Post #23 of 31
(597 views)
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Okay, thanks for the information!
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Maybe someone has the time to give the correct numbers.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Oct 21 2014, 1:37pm
Post #24 of 31
(613 views)
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The correct numbers are these:
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The Appendices Part 9: In To The Wilderland
Into The Wilderland: The Chronicles Of The Hobbit - Part 2
•Opening (3:22)
•A Warm Welcome - Lake-Town - February 2012 (29:21)
•Business Of The State - The Master's Chambers - August 2011 (15:22)
•Shelter On The Long Lake - Bard's House - September 2011 (20:17)
•In The Halls Of The ElvenKing - The Woodland Realm - September 2011 (29:16)
•Flies And Spiders - Mirkwood Forest - Spetember-October 2011 (29:56)
•Queer Lodgings - Beorn's House - November 2011/March 2012 (27:00)
•On The Doorstep - The Lonely Mountain - February 2012 (18:25)
•Inside Information - Smaug's Lair - March 2012 (26:10)
•Down The Swift Dark Stream... The Forest River - December 2011 (15:42)
•Barrels Out Of Bond - The Elven Sluice - May-June 2012 (30:02)
•A Chance Meeting - Bree - May 2013 (20:35)
•Erebor Rekindled - The Dwarf-Forges - July 2013 (27:56)
•... Into The Fire (07:57)
•Credits (3:26)
The Appendices, Part 10: The Journey To Erebor
Summoning Smaug: Last Of The Fire-Drakes (76:11)
•The Last And First Dragon (26:32)
•Conversations with Smaug Summoning (24:46)
•Into The Dragon's Lair (25:33)
The Peoples And Denziens Of Middle-earth (71:68)
•Beorn: The Shape-shifter (25:06)
•The Spawn of Ungoliant (16:47)
•The Men Of Lake-town (30:15)
Realms Of The Third Age: From Beorn's House To Lake-town (93:48)
•Beorn's House (26:38)
•Mirkwood Forest (16:57)
•The Woodland Realm (21:01)
•Lake-town (29:52)
The Music Of The Hobbit (60:66)
•Overture: Music Of The Wilderland (21:33)
•1st Movement: The World Of Men (20:22)
•2nd Movement: In The Halls Of Erebor (19:11)
•Credits (4:22)
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
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tripecac
Rivendell
Oct 21 2014, 10:05pm
Post #25 of 31
(481 views)
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Lots of great info above. However, the original question still lingers:
How are the appendices, in terms of overall enjoyment, relative to those for AUJ?
(This post was edited by tripecac on Oct 21 2014, 10:06pm)
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