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The Look of A Dark Lord

Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 29 2008, 5:30am


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The Look of A Dark Lord Can't Post

Does anyone know what Sauron or Morgoth looked like as Dark Lords or seen an artists rendering?
Can you provide any links?

What facts do we know?

Sauron: In the Second Age, we don't even know his form for much of the time. We know he went about as Annatar, 'Lord of Gifts' to deceive the Elves when making the Rings of Power until S.A. 1500 & that was in a fair (probably) Elven form. Certainly when taken hostage to Numenor by Ar-Pharazon near the end of the Second Age he must've been in a fair form also. It was upon coming out of the abyss after the drowning of Numenor that Sauron could only take an evil shape henceforth......

The Silmarillion says 'in 'Akallabeth':

'His (Sauron's) spirit arose out of the deep & passed as a shadow ....over the sea, & came at last back to Middle-earth & to Mordor....& dwelt there, dark & silent, until he wrought for himself a new guise, an image of malice & hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure.'

I can't think of much else that describes Sauron, but this, and I believe The Eye is not only a metaphor for Sauron's spiritual ability to search out like he did when Frodo was on Amon Hen or like Galadriel says "The Eye seeks for me" - The Eye is most certainly not a Lighthouse on top of Barad-Dur like in Peter Jackson's movies - but I also believe if you read Tolkien's description, the Eye is part of the image of malice, the guise that Sauron wrought. He was a Dark Lord with one Eye like a cyclops - funny as it sounds.
Moreso, Tolkien says, 'The Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure' - if a methaphor, why could few endure it?
How hard is a methaphor to endure? Shocked
The Eye was hard to endure because it meant being brought into the very pressance of Sauron the Terrible as Gollum was........


The next thing is Sauron's shape in the Third Age, which after PJ's 'Sauron the Lighthouse' needs to be cleared up I guess.
Sauron was indeed a physical being at the end of the Third Age. Tolkien writes several times that 'Sauron began to take shape', etc. The clincher is Gollum saying "he (Sauron) has only 4 fingers on one hand but they are enough", which is of course a reference to Isildur cutting off the Ruling Ring .You can't see the hand of a spirit......

Finally, what's Sauron's size?
I've heard 13 - 14 feet. Don't ask me where they got that as I've never came across it in my readings. PJ made Sauron about that big though I guess.
Tolkien wrote 'Man size but greater', whatever that means exactly. I'd take that to mean 8 - 10 feet, but 13 - 14 could fit. Balrogs would be the same I guess.


Morgoth: I think we have little to go on here directly, but maybe more if we search a bit......

Melkor puts on the form of a tyrant, a Dark Lord, 'tall & terrible' right before visiting Ungoliant when they attack the Two Trees. That's all we get.
Yet, there's more if we dig a little bit:
Morgoth has an iron crown with the three Silmarils on it.
Morgoth's face is the scar that Thorondor made when swooping down on it.
His right hand was burned from the Silmaril.
Morgoth's left foot limped from the wound Fingolfin gave him with his sword.
The Balrogs 'became most like him (Morgoth) in their corruption' The Silmarrion says. Therefore, we must assume that Morgoth was very much like a Balrog: dark, shadowy, with a fiery center (possibly). Well, dark & shadowy I bet. Possibly feiry eyes or something.

Finally, what was Morgoth's size? Again, I've never read anything exact, but I've heard 19 feet & 70 feet given. Personally, I find 19 feet more believable & in line with 7 feet for Numenoreans, 7' 7" for Turgon & Thingol & 13 feet for Maiar. 70 feet just seems a bit much, although it does say when Luthien dances before Morgoth & he falls asleep that he 'falls like an avalanche'. I guess 19 feet is still quite an avalanche. Let us not forget what Morgoth wants to do with Lutihien too. 70 feet on 6 feet is a bit of a stretch......

Can anyone add anything or supply any artist renderings online?


(This post was edited by Tolkien Forever on Feb 29 2008, 5:30am)

Subject User Time
The Look of A Dark Lord Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Feb 29 2008, 5:30am
    That still tells us very little Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 29 2008, 6:40am
        Not Really Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Feb 29 2008, 1:20pm
            That's only in Morgoth's Ring Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 29 2008, 6:51pm
                What Magic? Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Feb 29 2008, 7:37pm
                    The Elves use it, and so does He Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 29 2008, 11:41pm
                        ????? Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 1:24am
                            we all walk on snow, when we walk on snow a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 1 2008, 3:27am
                                Ulmo Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 3:45am
                                    a. s. is correct Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Mar 1 2008, 6:28am
                                        found the snow quotes! a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 3 2008, 5:03pm
                            Because if it didn't, then Arda wouldn't work. Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Mar 1 2008, 6:16am
                                Thanks Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 11:09am
                                    What are we arguing about? Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Mar 1 2008, 10:45pm
                    Morgoth creates orcs, dragons, trolls, etc. Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 3:57pm
    Jackson's Annatar Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 29 2008, 6:57am
    An image of Fingolfin fighting Morgoth by Ted Nasmith Ashkan1984 Send a private message to Ashkan1984 Feb 29 2008, 9:18am
        Cool Picture Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Feb 29 2008, 4:56pm
    Size doesn't matter FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 29 2008, 9:29am
    Here are some renderings of the Dark Lord and the other Dark Lord squire Send a private message to squire Mar 1 2008, 1:52am
        that eye a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 1 2008, 2:21am
            "You'll keep an eye on Frodo, won't you" FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Mar 2 2008, 6:46pm
        Absurd? Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 2:43am
            who cares, frankly? a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 1 2008, 3:05am
                I Guess You Must Care Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 3:41am
                    disingenuousness does not assist your point // a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 1 2008, 3:44am
            How do you know what Satan looks like? // N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Mar 1 2008, 4:24am
                I've seen Him Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 4:27am
                    Deviled Ham Radhruin Send a private message to Radhruin Mar 1 2008, 8:45am
                *mods up* Best laugh I've had in weeks. Thanks, N.E.B.! Eowyn of Penns Woods Send a private message to Eowyn of Penns Woods Mar 1 2008, 7:07am
            Let's take a vote & see if the eyes have it squire Send a private message to squire Mar 1 2008, 11:16pm
                Changes Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 2 2008, 12:07am
                    Ah, so you're a youngster, eh? dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Mar 2 2008, 2:51am
                        Singularity Annatar Send a private message to Annatar Mar 2 2008, 1:48pm
                            Very nice! squire Send a private message to squire Mar 2 2008, 1:55pm
                                The One had two. Annatar Send a private message to Annatar Mar 3 2008, 12:21am
                        Hardly A Youngster Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 3 2008, 5:26am
                Best cover ever! I love the rabbit eared warrior, in particular.// Farawyn Send a private message to Farawyn Mar 2 2008, 4:52pm
                    Not rabbit ears! "...and above the cheek-guards were set the white wings of sea-birds" squire Send a private message to squire Mar 2 2008, 6:51pm
                        Shall we get Bugs and Daffy involved? // Farawyn Send a private message to Farawyn Mar 2 2008, 8:48pm
            In your defense, Frodo saw one Eye in the Mirror of Galadriel. Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 4:15pm
                Also in The Lay of Leithian Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 4:46pm
                    At that point Sauron was a shape shifter, though, Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 5:12pm
                        So it's like Balrog wings. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 5:20pm
                            I'm saying he leaves it ambiguous. Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 5:40pm
                                So Sauron himself could be a metaphor. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 6:13pm
                                    no! Sauron is a created thing or a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 3 2008, 6:30pm
                                        But Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 6:44pm
                                            "nothing is evil in the beginning" a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 3 2008, 7:16pm
                                                Exactly Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 8:53pm
                                                    a mon-ocle is monocular, true that! a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 3 2008, 9:33pm
                                                        Satan, Morgoth & Sauron Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 3 2008, 11:08pm
                                                            Tolkien himself said Christ was a true myth a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 4 2008, 12:45am
                                                                Huh? Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 4 2008, 12:55am
                                                                    I really suggest you read a little bit more a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 4 2008, 1:17am
                                                                        Years Later Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 4 2008, 6:18pm
                                                                            I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Mar 4 2008, 6:48pm
                                                                            Lewis wasn't born again years later. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Mar 4 2008, 7:45pm
                                                                    There were several issues Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 4 2008, 2:52am
                                                        I'm breaking two rules here sador Send a private message to sador Mar 4 2008, 7:13am
                                    "Just a metaphor"? Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 6:35pm
                                        So... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 6:48pm
                                            Not quite. Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 7:04pm
                                                Well Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 8:09pm
                                                    Not quite. Curious Send a private message to Curious Mar 3 2008, 8:48pm
                                                        Well Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 3 2008, 9:03pm
        Nice pictures! Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Mar 1 2008, 11:54pm
    Lighthouse acheron Send a private message to acheron Mar 1 2008, 3:33pm
        Good Point Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 1 2008, 6:23pm
    Tolkien himself illustrated Sauron visualweasel Send a private message to visualweasel Mar 3 2008, 4:36pm
        Looks More Like.... Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 3 2008, 8:41pm
            Gollum isn't evil Owlyross Send a private message to Owlyross Mar 5 2008, 5:10pm
                Agreed. Farawyn Send a private message to Farawyn Mar 5 2008, 6:17pm
                Gollum Evil? Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever Mar 9 2008, 1:59am

 
 
 

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